Nonsense. I am saying this as a Levite.
There was no house of Israel in the 1st century
- Thread starter Epoisses
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Nonsense. I am saying this as a Levite.
Epoisses
New member
I think I mentioned the few Levites in the opening paragraph who still manned and maintained the temple in the 1st century. So as a Jewish Levite who can trace his ancestry all the way back to Abraham (Can I see your paperwork? Just kidding, lol) do you believe the ten northern tribes which did include Levi are still present in modern times? No one is going to believe anything I say so if a Jewish person says the same thing maybe they will believe him or her. Also if someone married outside their tribe would they still be considered part of that tribe?
"And Jacob called his sons and said, 'Gather together that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days'" (Genesis 49:1)
Yep, the nations of Israel are still around.
Epoisses
New member
And there are twelve tribes in the book of Revelation which are clearly not ethnic because they are said to be virgins and virgins would never be able to propagate their own tribe, DUH! The fatal flaw in the Dispy hermeneutic where everything is seen as literal when many things in the bible are clearly symbolic.
Epoisses
New member
Would you be willing to take a DNA test to prove your claim? There are modern ways of finding these things out very easily.
Epoisses
New member
Did Jacob receive the name Israel because he was a descendant of Abraham or because he prevailed against the angel of the Lord?
Did Saul receive the new name of Paul because he descended from Benjamin or because Christ knocked him off his proverbial high horse on the Damascus road?
The OP is correct, but a few clarifications are needed:
God divorced the House of Israel (10 tribes).God scattered them amongst the nations, God had no mercy on them, and God told them they were not a people.
In Hosea, it was said that one day God would return to them, and tell them that they were a people.
That promise happened when the New Covenant was made with the shed blood of Christ Jesus on the cross. Peter confirms the Hosea promise (1 Peter 2:10).
Because the Israelites were scattered amongst the Gentiles for over 700 years, they became like Gentiles, and by the time the first century came, most of the Israelites from the 10 tribes could not be distinguished from a pagan Gentile.
The gospel went to the Jew first, then the Gentile. That is how all of Israel was saved, and that is how the promise of a New Covenant to both houses was fulfilled.
All who have faith in Christ Jesus are the sons of Abraham, the Israel of God.
God divorced the House of Israel (10 tribes).God scattered them amongst the nations, God had no mercy on them, and God told them they were not a people.
In Hosea, it was said that one day God would return to them, and tell them that they were a people.
That promise happened when the New Covenant was made with the shed blood of Christ Jesus on the cross. Peter confirms the Hosea promise (1 Peter 2:10).
Because the Israelites were scattered amongst the Gentiles for over 700 years, they became like Gentiles, and by the time the first century came, most of the Israelites from the 10 tribes could not be distinguished from a pagan Gentile.
The gospel went to the Jew first, then the Gentile. That is how all of Israel was saved, and that is how the promise of a New Covenant to both houses was fulfilled.
All who have faith in Christ Jesus are the sons of Abraham, the Israel of God.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
There were 12 tribes in the first century. I believe scripture, not you.
Yeppers.
Scripture has the truth.
James 1:1 KJV
(1) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Preterism/Craigie: "the twelve tribes" is figurative....Jew really means.....Israel really means....Darby.....You are in denial....Darby.....Fulfilled AD 70.....
Paul was either Saul's family name or last name, or just another name he went by. It looks like he changed his name because he was corresponding with Gentiles and didn't want or need to identify himself as a Benjamite in his ministry to Gentiles.
Acts 13:9 (KJV) "also" ; confer Acts 13:7 (KJV) "Sergius Paulus"
Read Romans 11.
There were 7,000 from the House of Israel who didn't worship the image of Baal. This remnant lived amongst the Jews in Judah after the split.
2 Chronicles mentions it many times.
For example:
(2 Chron 34:9) They went to Hilkiah the high priest and gave him the money that had been brought into the temple of God, which the Levites who were the gatekeepers had collected from the people of Manasseh, Ephraim and the entire remnant of Israel and from all the people of Judah and Benjamin and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
However, the remnant from the 10 tribes who lived amongst the Jews doesn't take away from the fact that God divorced the vast majority of Israelites from the 10 tribes, scattered them amongst the Gentiles, had no mercy on them, and told them they were not a people.
Moreover, while the Jews were living in captivity in Babylon (which happened over 100 years after the Assyrians removed the 10 tribes from the North), Jeremiah and Ezekiel tell us that one day God would reunite the two houses.
So, you can't have it both ways. If the two houses were united in the first century (your claim), then that means the New Covenant was made, and that there was one king over both houses.
Does that mean Ezekiel's prophecy was fulfilled as of the writing of James 1:1?
(Ezekiel 37:15-17) The word of the Lord came to me: 16 “Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, ‘Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.’ Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, ‘Belonging to Joseph (that is, to Ephraim) and all the Israelites associated with him.’ 17 Join them together into one stick so that they will become one in your hand.
No dumbo, in James 1:1 they are still scattered.
Don't know why this is so hard for you Darby Followers to understand.
There was always 12 tribes since Jacob had 12 sons.
However, the 12 tribes split into 2 nations. God divorced the Northern nation, which is also called Israel, which consisted of the 10 lost tribes.
In the first century, the house of Israel did not exist before the cross because God had divorced them 700 years earlier. Only the house of Judah existed, they were the Jews.
The book of James was written after the cross. The two houses were united when Christ Jesus made the New Covenant with His shed blood at the cross. Just like Ezekiel and Jeremiah said.
Therefore, the 12 tribes had already been joined together when James wrote his epistle.