ECT There is one Gospel/salvation, Heb 2:3

[Interplanner]

I'm so glad that somebody on this site knows what they're talking about!

That would be Paul in Rom 3:1-3 and 9 answering the same. The answer to 'has the word of God failed?' is not a restoration of the land. That is the plain meaning. In fact, it is not even that all Jews at one point are 'saved' even if 'saved' meant a different 'saved' from everyone else, which it does not.

 

[Interplanner]

There you have it folks. With massive and unequivocal evidence like that we must change our position! :juggle:

That is what it says, and it does not validate the land restoration. Every indication is the end of the covenant status of the race as such, and the mission to the whole globe, not the land.

Rom 2, 8, I Cor 15, Heb 9, Acts 17, 2 Peter 3, I Jn 2, 4--all concerning the last times or day and there is nothing for your position. The mission to whole world is the concern, and then God destroys this world and produces the NHNE.

The situation Israel found itself in in the first century is so confused and complicated that it simply was not a thought. There were efforts to keep it from conflagration (Jn 18, Caiaphas) but there is never any NT effort to see a 'kingdom'/monarchy there (which was sedition acc. to Rome), and the utter destruction of the place speaks for itself, fulfilling Daniel.

The bright vision of other prophetic passages is not, therefore, about the land as such but about God's one work, like the mountain in Is 2 and 29 that draws all nations to itself.

The little tent of David gets raised back up and that is the Gentile believers, as we know from Acts 15 (except Jerry, who has 2ndcomingitis about reading it).

 

[heir]

Why is it you never finish the story ?15:28
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Of course she was a Gentile, you goof. She was referred to as a "dog" not a "sheep".

 

[dodge]

Of course she was a Gentile, you goof. She was referred to as a "dog" not a "sheep".

And Jesus honored her request which HE did not do for many of the sheep you goof !

Proving Jesus came for who ever placed their faith in Him.

Re-read John 3:16 and John 14:6 you might learn something you are over looking.

 

[heir]

And Jesus honored her request which HE did not do for many of the sheep you goof !

The only thing I responded to you about was your idiotic claim that Gentiles are sheep. I showed they were referred to as dogs. I wasn't addressing anything else. I proved my case and you wrong.

 

[dodge]

The only thing I responded to you about was your idiotic claim that Gentiles are sheep. I showed they were referred to as dogs. I wasn't addressing anything else. I proved my case and you wrong.

When Jesus said I have other sheep he was talking about the gentiles. After Israel was set aside and the gentiles were grafted in they were no longer referred to as dogs they got upgraded to sheep....Keep up.

Nope I was not wrong you don't understand the big picture you are stuck in MADness.

FYI, the dog collar was removed in Jesus !

 

[God's Truth]

And Jesus honored her request which HE did not do for many of the sheep you goof !

Proving Jesus came for who ever placed their faith in Him.

Re-read John 3:16 and John 14:6 you might learn something you are over looking.

When Jesus came to earth, he came only for the lost sheep of Israel, those are the people who already belonged to God by faith, for the Jews who did not have faith before Jesus came, they were cut off and hardened so that they could not hear Jesus and be saved. Jesus said when he is crucified, the ALL can come to him to be saved. Paul calls it first Jews then Gentiles.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

Acts 3:26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways."

Romans 2:9
There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;

Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

 

[dodge]

When Jesus came to earth, he came only for the lost sheep of Israel, those are the people who already belonged to God by faith, for the Jews who did not have faith before Jesus came, they were cut off and hardened so that they could not hear Jesus and be saved. Jesus said when he is crucified, the ALL can come to him to be saved. Paul calls it first Jews then Gentiles.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

Acts 3:26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways."

Romans 2:9
There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;

Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

I understand that the Jews were the first in order but that does not change that the gentiles that came to Jesus in faith were brought into the fold by Jesus. ex. the Centurion , the woman at the well etc. Jesus honored their request before He went to Calvary.

 

[God's Truth]

Of course she was a Gentile, you goof. She was referred to as a "dog" not a "sheep".

The Gentiles were considered dogs because like dogs they did not know the Father.

They did not know God. We know God and God knows us by our obeying Him.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

1 John 2:4 Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

1 Corinthians 8:3 But whoever loves God is known by God;

 

[God's Truth]

I understand that the Jews were the first in order but that does not change that the gentiles that came to Jesus in faith were brought into the fold by Jesus. ex. the Centurion , the woman at the well etc. Jesus honored their request before He went to Calvary.

No, Jesus came first for the lost sheep of Israel. They could come to Jesus to be saved when he was crucified, just like he said. Jesus came first for those who already belonged to God by faith and obedience to the old law.

 

[steko]

:doh: Good grief!

 

[Danoh]

Danoh, I understand that the whole world is in the in between period i.e. the 49 weeks with 1 week being set aside , the times of the gentiles, and when that ends Israel will be restored as scripture teaches. I know "who" sacrificed in my place and took the penalty for my sins.

The "now" for us gentiles is Christ Jesus has risen and coming back for us who are alive at His return, and those that pass before His return will have a glorious home coming with the Lord Jesus.

And my point is that the time frame within which John 3:16 is using the word "world" is within and during that time frame within God's plan and purpose for the Earth and its' nations - to be brought to His Son's salvation through a redeemed Israel FIRST.

THAT "mission" is on hold til the fulness of what He is presently doing towards that part of His plan and purpose for the Heavenlies...be come in.

What He is presently doing is toward that; involves a New HEAVENLY Creature: the Body of Christ one day to reign over the Angelic host IN THE HEAVENLIES.

This began with Paul.

Twelve Tribes of Israel over the nations of the Earth as His Royal Priesthood.

And Twelve Apostles over said Twelve Tribes.

And One Body over the Angelic Host in The Heavens.

And One Apostle.

Jesus Christ the chief cornerstone, or foundation, upon which both these aspects of this - God's plan and purpose for both realms - is based.

It is why there is even a Pre-Trib Rapture AS A DISTINCTION, to begin with.

The Body has been delivered (spared) FROM the outpouring of His wrath TO COME.

In contrast, DURING said wrath TO COME, Believing Israelites DURING THAT HOUR TO COME UPON THIS EARTH will be delivered THROUGH not FROM said hour.

A type of these Believing Israelites DURING said hour, are...

Daniel 3's Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

I'm trying to illustrate a principle by all these examples - I am not actually talking about those examples themselves.

This is why I hold to the Mid-Acts I hold to, more or less - these things that differ in Scripture between the Twelve Tribes and the One Body; between the Twelve Apostles and the One Apostle; between their being delivered THROUGH the wrath TO COME and our having been delivered FROM said wrath TO COME; between our Pre-Trib Rapture TO the Lord; and their waiting for Him to RETURN to THEM, and many, many other...things that differ between Prophecy and Mystery.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

If you don't see that there is no need for it, you don't know the NT anyway.

Lk 21 is sort of a cancellation, you know. All the written wrath has taken place. So is Heb 6 about the toasted land, which it was because that generation failed.

But go on with your fairy tale, unnecessary as it is.

Would it matter if the cancellation was in Dan 8-9? Because that is what a desolation is; it's the end of the arrangement. It is henceforth irrelevant.

:chuckle:

Still waiting for the land cancellation...

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

All the written wrath has taken place.

:chuckle:

That's not what is says.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Would it matter if the cancellation was in Dan 8-9? Because that is what a desolation is; it's the end of the arrangement. It is henceforth irrelevant.

The abomination of desolation is AFTER the destruction of the city and sanctuary, plainly written in your Bible.

 

[Interplanner]

The Gentiles were considered dogs because like dogs they did not know the Father.

They did not know God. We know God and God knows us by our obeying Him.



John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

1 John 2:4 Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

1 Corinthians 8:3 But whoever loves God is known by God;

You just made everything every Jew at the time ever said to be inspired, sancrosanct, unquestionable. Jesus came and CORRECTED them.

 

[Danoh]

The abomination of desolation is AFTER the destruction of the city and sanctuary, plainly written in your Bible.

Now it's your turn to possibly bring me up to speed on something.

You say said desolation is "AFTER?"

How did you arrive at that; what are you basing it on?

And what do you understand said abomination to be, and based on what?

Perhaps I might need to rethink that one.

Thanks

Proverbs 27:17.

 

[Right Divider]

That is what it says, and it does not validate the land restoration. Every indication is the end of the covenant status of the race as such, and the mission to the whole globe, not the land.

I don't need the land promise repeated to "keep it". It was given by God and never rescinded. It is YOU that needs to show that it HAS been rescinded.

Rom 2, 8, I Cor 15, Heb 9, Acts 17, 2 Peter 3, I Jn 2, 4--all concerning the last times or day and there is nothing for your position. The mission to whole world is the concern, and then God destroys this world and produces the NHNE.

And a NEW JERUSALEM.... guess where it will be....

The situation Israel found itself in in the first century is so confused and complicated that it simply was not a thought. There were efforts to keep it from conflagration (Jn 18, Caiaphas) but there is never any NT effort to see a 'kingdom'/monarchy there (which was sedition acc. to Rome), and the utter destruction of the place speaks for itself, fulfilling Daniel.

Cute....

The bright vision of other prophetic passages is not, therefore, about the land as such but about God's one work, like the mountain in Is 2 and 29 that draws all nations to itself.

All other nations, sure.

Isa 60:15-16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(60:15) Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through [thee], I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations. (60:16) Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD [am] thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
​

The little tent of David gets raised back up and that is the Gentile believers, as we know from Acts 15 (except Jerry, who has 2ndcomingitis about reading it).

Amos 9:11-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(9:11) ¶ In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:(9:12) That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.
​

You are simply a scripture denier that prefers the nonsense that you found in a commentary.

 

[Danoh]

Yo, RD - what's your take on what the abomination of desolation is, and when it is?

Thanks.

And by the way; food for thought, bro - in Matt. thru John, one aspect of the following is the following:

Every time the Lord is depicted dealing with both Believing and Unbelieving Israelites in connection with various issues having to do with resurrection issues, that is basically the Land issue.

Proverbs 27:17

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Now it's your turn to possibly bring me up to speed on something.

You say said desolation is "AFTER?"

How did you arrive at that; what are you basing it on?

And what do you understand said abomination to be, and based on what?

Perhaps I might need to rethink that one.

Thanks

Proverbs 27:17.

Abomination of desolation- an image in the temple, man of sin claims to be God