There is no Hell

CherubRam

CherubRam

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chrysostom said:
the false prophet is the antichrist
the rider of the red horse from the red sea
mohamed the father of islam the second beast
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2 Thessalonians 2King James Version (KJV)

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

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KingdomRose said:
I differ with you there. When Jesus judges the sheep and the goats, the goats (the wicked) go off into everlasting destruction. This is right THEN, at Armageddon. They are not resurrected later. After that, Christ's Millennial Reign will oversee billions of "righteous and unrighteous" being resurrected back to life on Earth. (Acts 24:15) The "unrighteous" are NOT the wicked that willfully practiced evil in the old system of things. The "unrighteous" would be those folks who did not know the truth about God during their lives in this old system. They will be given the opportunity to learn.

THEN, after the Millennial Reign, everybody will know God and everybody will have the chance to make an informed choice about whether or not they will honor God's rulership. The ones who will not will be "cast into the lake of fire." That means totally annihilated.

(The Millennial Reign of Christ is actually "Judgment Day.")

:sheep:
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The Millennial Reign of Christ starts one thousand years before the great throne judgement.
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

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Bright Raven said:
Soul Sleep :chuckle:
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You laugh at Jesus?

He said to his disciples: "'Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep.' The disciples then said to him, 'Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.' Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he was speaking of literal sleep. So Jesus then said to them plainly, 'Lazarus is dead.'" (John 11:11-14, NASB)

Doesn't he liken death to the unconscious, inactive state of sleep? He wasn't joking or lying, he was illustrating the condition of his friend's state-of-being and the easiness of his being able to bring him back to life. Lazarus was dead, putrid rotting dead, and Jesus was going to show the power of his Father, God, by bringing him back to life again. Lazarus was no where else. He wasn't in heaven (it would've been silly to bring him back from there!), he wasn't conscious anywhere. ("The dead are conscious of NOTHING." Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Then there is the Apostle Paul who used the term "sleeping in death" many times.

"For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep." (I Corinthians 11:30, NASB)

The New American Bible says of the same verse: "That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are DYING."


Again the New American Bible says, under the heading Hope for the Christian Dead: "We do not want you to be unaware, brothers, about those who have FALLEN ASLEEP, so that you may not grieve like the rest, who have no hope." (I Thessalonians 4:13)

So is it wise to chuckle at "soul sleep" like it is a joke?
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

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patrick jane said:
Does the devil ever die ?
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Why wouldn't he die? God created the good angel that he once was, right? If God can create somebody then surely He can cause that creation to die.

"The eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" is just a fancy way of saying "you're going to be obliterated." Jesus was using illustrative metaphors. What happens to something in a fire? It incinerates. If it burns long enough there is nothing left.

So when the Bible speaks of eternal fire, Gehenna, or the Lake of Fire, it is speaking of total destruction. Nothing left.

:smokie:
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

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KingdomRose said:
I differ with you there. When Jesus judges the sheep and the goats, the goats (the wicked) go off into everlasting destruction. This is right THEN, at Armageddon. They are not resurrected later. After that, Christ's Millennial Reign will oversee billions of "righteous and unrighteous" being resurrected back to life on Earth. (Acts 24:15) The "unrighteous" are NOT the wicked that willfully practiced evil in the old system of things. The "unrighteous" would be those folks who did not know the truth about God during their lives in this old system. They will be given the opportunity to learn.

THEN, after the Millennial Reign, everybody will know God and everybody will have the chance to make an informed choice about whether or not they will honor God's rulership. The ones who will not will be "cast into the lake of fire." That means totally annihilated.

(The Millennial Reign of Christ is actually "Judgment Day.")

:sheep:
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There are two different resurrections. The first resurrection is the resurrection of the elect. There is no judgement day for them. The second resurrection is the resurrection of the sheep and goats. The sheep are separated from the goats, and the goats are cut off from life for all eternity.

Judgement Day comes after the thousand year reign of Christ.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

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chrysostom said:
where does it say reign of Christ?
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Reign of Christ
Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
 
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KingdomRose said:
"Lake of Fire".....symbolic for the complete annihilation of an evil person or something that has existed that is no longer tolerated or needed (like Death and the grave:rip:).

It is analogous to "Gehenna.":comeout:
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I guess Jesus didn't get your memo:
Mar 9:43-48 KJV And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: (44) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (45) And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: (46) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (47) And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: (48) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
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chrysostom said:
where does it say reign of Christ?
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Why do you continue to be SO willfully ignorant of this one?
Rev 20:6 KJV Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
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"Reign WITH" Him! No one can reign WITH Him, unless HE IS REIGNING.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

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Right Divider said:
I guess Jesus didn't get your memo:
Mar 9:43-48 KJV And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: (44) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (45) And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: (46) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (47) And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: (48) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
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The worm that does not die is parabolic for eternal destruction. The fire not quenched is parabolic for the judgement never being satisfied.
Gehenna does not translate as Hell. Gehenna was a place outside of the city of Jerusalem where broken pots were dumped. According to Archaeologist who excavated the area, it was never used as a place for burning rubbish.
 
WonderfulLordJesus

WonderfulLordJesus

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Revelation 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 
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CherubRam said:
The worm that does not die is parabolic for eternal destruction. The fire not quenched is parabolic for the judgement never being satisfied.
Gehenna does not translate as Hell. Gehenna was a place outside of the city of Jerusalem where broken pots were dumped. According to Archaeologist who excavated the area, it was never used as a place for burning rubbish.
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Conjecture..... dismissed.
 
WonderfulLordJesus

WonderfulLordJesus

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A thought that has always come to mind is also this: if hell fire is just destruction, annihilation by fire, how is this any different than a martyr that was burned at the stake? One would have to conclude some saints suffered hell, then, despite their innocence in Christ, if there's nothing that exceeds being burned alive, in seriousness of consequences for the damned. One would have to conclude Hitler or Stalin, Nero or Caligula, will fare about the same as a martyred saint? And are then the direst warnings, of the Lord of truth in the Bible, just, what, idle threats, lies? Deceptive, misleading fear mongering? Just who is the deceptive god of people who are, in actuality, making such claims? Allah? The Lord Jesus then really laid an egg of the account in Luke 16 of Lazarus and the rich man? I resoundingly think not, that God is always most precise.

Just thought I'd add these things, to the ideas that go against those who like to say the Bible doesn't say what it says, one must suppose we shouldn't believe our lying eyes? (Is this the Bill Clinton school of exegesis, that it depends upon what is is?)
 
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aikido7

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Right Divider said:
I guess Jesus didn't get your memo:
Mar 9:43-48 KJV And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: (44) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (45) And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: (46) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (47) And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: (48) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
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These quotations from Jesus are metaphorical, not literal. They point to something beyond, part of which was Jesus’s own Kingdom of God theology.
 
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aikido7 said:
These quotations from Jesus are metaphorical, not literal. They point to something beyond, part of which was Jesus’s own Kingdom of God theology.
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Metaphors are comparative and those verses were not making a comparison. Therefore, they are not metaphorical. They are symbolic and symbols always point to something.

The "worm not dying" is symbolic of their NOT being annihilated and the "fire that is not quenched" is symbolic of eternal punishment.
 
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