There is no Hell

Timotheos

New member
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

They have 'torment' for ever and ever and 'no rest' day or night (conscious). Whosoever received the mark. What part of this verse do you not believe / understand?

Okay, now show me where this says "all those whose names are not found in The Lamb's Book of Life shall be tormented forever". Remember that was your claim. What part of "Show me the verse that says that" do you not understand? If the Bible said what you CLAIMED it said, you should be able to easily say "It says that in Genesis 45:2".
If the Bible doesn't say what you claim it says, all you can do is rant and rave the way like you are doing now. I believe and understand Revelation 14:11. The problem is that you don't understand it. It doesn't say what you want it to say. Sorry about that. The reason that you can't find proper Biblical support for your doctrine is that your doctrine is not supported by the Bible.
 

CherubRam

New member
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

They have 'torment' for ever and ever and 'no rest' day or night (conscious). Whosoever received the mark. What part of this verse do you not believe / understand?

My Rest No Rest
Psalm 95:11

So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’”

Hebrews 3:11
So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

Hebrews 4:3
Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, “So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’” And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world.

Hebrews 4:5
And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their (torment / punishment) will rise forever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who (worship / pay tribute to) (the / that) (beast / nation) and its (image / likness), or for anyone who receives the mark of its (name / title).”

Jude 1
5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the (angels / messengers) who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

The word "fire" is often used to mean "judgment."
 

Daniel1611

New member
Eternal fire is only useful if someone is being tormented. You're just not grasping the Scriptures' meanings.

Don't bother quoting scripture to the 7th Day Adventists. They say they believe the Bible, but they lie. They have a false prophetess that they say gave them extra-Biblical revelation. They just try to hide it from outsiders like the other cults do.
 

rstrats

Active member
Aimiel,

re: "They have 'torment' for ever and ever..."

The verse doesn't say that. It only says that smoke will rise for ever and ever. It doesn't say that the torment will last forever.



re: "...and 'no rest' day or night (conscious)."

The verse doesn't say how long this will last.



re: "What part of this verse do you not believe / understand?"

What I don't understand is why you want to believe that the fate of the unsaved is to be tortured 24/7 for eternity. Except for the devil - as the KJV has it - there is not a single scripture that says that anyone is going to be given eternal life and tortured forever. Why do you want to interpret scripture that way?

I just don't understand why you want to believe that the fate of the unsaved is to spend eternity in conscious torment when there is no clear scripture to support that belief. I don't understand why you try to read into scripture something that makes the loving supreme being of the Bible into a heartless monster. I simply do not understand what there is that makes you want to do that when there is no need to. Why do you want to believe that a loving supreme being will horribly torture a person for eternity because during their fleeting few years of life they didn't satisfy certain requirements? I just don't understand why you wouldn't rather believe that a loving supreme being will wipe the person mercifully out of existence because for some reason they didn't or couldn't meet these requirements and didn't develop or have the potential to develop the right character needed to spend eternity with this supreme being.
 

Timotheos

New member
Yours is the one not supported when one considers the whole of Scripture.

Wrong, If you consider the whole of scripture you find that the wages of sin is death, the wicked are destroyed, they are no more and they don't exist forever in hell being tormented alive. There is not even ONE verse in the Bible that says that the wicked will go to hell when they die where they will live forever in torment. But there are at least a hundred verses that say that the wicked will be destroyed. You are simply wrong and you should rethink your doctrine.
 

Timotheos

New member
You have wasted enough of my time with your illogical ramblings. Good bye.

Keep on trying to quote scripture to people who believe the false doctrine of eternal conscious torture. They say they believe the Bible, but they lie. It's amusing to watch them try to defend a doctrine that has no Biblical support using a Bible verse that doesn't even say what they WANT it to say.
 

CherubRam

New member
Don't bother quoting scripture to the 7th Day Adventists. They say they believe the Bible, but they lie. They have a false prophetess that they say gave them extra-Biblical revelation. They just try to hide it from outsiders like the other cults do.
I have read the works of Ellen White, and she said that she was not a prophetess. The reason some Adventist thought she was a prophetess is because some of the things she said came true. I am not an Adventist, but I have studied with them and other Christian congregations.
 

CherubRam

New member
You crack me up. Fire is only useful for tormenting someone? I hope that you don't seriously believe that.

Hades is the god of Hell, and this is the god so may who claim to be Christians worship. Because the word Hell is not in the original writings, it shows that there is something fundamentally wrong.
 

Timotheos

New member
Hades is the god of Hell, and this is the god so may who claim to be Christians worship. Because the word Hell is not in the original writings, it shows that there is something fundamentally wrong.

Thanks, that explains the pro torment view of some people.
Aimiel said:
Eternal fire is only useful if someone is being tormented.
Aimiel, have you never considered that fire is also useful for destruction? One time, a long time ago, I raked up a pile of leaves and doused them with gasoline. After I got back up after the explosion, nothing was left of the pile of leaves. The leaves were completely destroyed, you could even say that the leaves were annihilated. The leaves were not tormented in the slightest.
However I believe the smoke is still rising!

(I learned something that day. Never Ever pour gasoline onto a pile of leaves and light it.)
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
You crack me up. Fire is only useful for tormenting someone? I hope that you don't seriously believe that.

What on earth do you think we need a lake of fire for in heaven? He said there would not be any heat that comes upon us there.
 

Timotheos

New member
What on earth do you think we need a lake of fire for in heaven? He said there would not be any heat that comes upon us there.

You do not understand WHAT my view is. I never said that the lake of fire is in heaven. Do you even know what type of book the Book of Revelation is?

Can you describe the doctrine of Conditional Immortality in your own words? Tell me what it is that you think that I believe, please.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Wrong, If you consider the whole of scripture you find that the wages of sin is death, the wicked are destroyed, they are no more and they don't exist forever in hell being tormented alive. There is not even ONE verse in the Bible that says that the wicked will go to hell when they die where they will live forever in torment. But there are at least a hundred verses that say that the wicked will be destroyed. You are simply wrong and you should rethink your doctrine.
No one is sent to the Lake of Fire to enjoy eternal life. They're destroyed eternally. Torment in flames is not life, as I've shared before. Are you capable of reading and comprehending what you read? Looks like you're not.
 
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