ECT The worm

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DAN P

Well-known member
I.S.I.T. said:
Sorry, not seeing the connection. I do believe in every word of God though, just not mans twist on it. :)
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Hi and that is why I love verb tenses when they are in a verse , because verbs show the action in that verse and all will get a better understanding !!

dan p

You don't believe Gal 3:28 and what the verse means and there are about , more then 15 different actions that are goinging on in that verse !!

dan p
 
I

I.S.I.T.

New member
heir said:
This has nothing to do with what Romans 6 is talking about!
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I didn't say it did. 1 John 1:9 speaks for itself, that's what I quoted, not my words. :)


1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
I.S.I.T. said:
If the old man of sin is put to death in us then he is still not alive, unless of course he was never really "put to death", or perhaps he has been revived again.
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Paul never said the old man is dead, only that he's been crucified. Rather, the believer is to count himself as dead in Christ to all that is old, because God counts him so.

And what I am, and what you are, does not make the words of God any less true. So I like to prove all things by the words of God.
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Then show where Paul said the old man/sin nature is dead/gone/eradicated.

Also I do not believe in the doctrine of OSAS, nor do I follow the doctrines of any man, nor have I been taught by man, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
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That proves you haven't.

You sound very familiar. Been here before, yes?
 
I

I.S.I.T.

New member
heir said:
We have nothing in need of forgiveness as we have been forgiven all trespasses!
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Again you are arguing against 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Again not my own words, but the words of God. Not seeing your argument, unless you do not believe in what 1John 1:9 is saying????
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
I.S.I.T. said:
Again you arguing against 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Again not my own words, but the words of God. Not seeing your argument, unless you do not believe in what 1John 1:9 is saying????
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How can one determine who John was addressing?
 
I

I.S.I.T.

New member
heir said:
It's a done deal! Our old man is crucified with Christ!

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


All who have trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation are saved and sealed!

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

...

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

That's eternal security if I ever heard it! And so is this:

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. ( see also Eph 1:4 KJV)

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Not believing in eternal security of the believer today is to wrongly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV) and/or listening to the religious, denominational deceitful worker (2 Corinthians 11:13-15 KJV).
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Again, I agree with all the words of God, just not the doctrines of men. OSAS doctrine preaches that ongoing unrepentant sin cannot effect ones eternal security, that is false. I'll talk more on that later.
 
I

I.S.I.T.

New member
musterion said:
Paul never said the old man is dead, only that he's been crucified.
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So you do not believe Christ died when he was crucified? If our old man is baptised into his death,and crucified with Christ, then the old man of sin is supposed to be dead. Not hard to grasp.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Did you catch that above? The body of sin is supposed to be destroyed in us.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Pretty strait forward stuff, crucified means crucified, dead means dead, destroyed means destroyed, and passed away means passed away. :)
 
D

Danoh

New member
musterion said:
How can one determine who John was addressing?
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Carefully compare all of 1 John 1 with John chapter 8.

The "sin" despite the "have not" claim otherwise, in both narratives, is the same in both.

Both of which are addressing Israelites - the one narrative doing so before the Cross, and the other after the Cross.

The "sin" being addressed is the same in both; though.

John chapter 8 and the first part of 1 John 1 both being in light of the first third or so, of John chapter 1.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
I.S.I.T. said:
So you do not believe Christ died when he was crucified? If our old man is baptised into his death,and crucified with Christ, then the old man of sin is supposed to be dead. Not hard to grasp.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Did you catch that above? The body of sin is supposed to be destroyed in us.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Pretty strait forward stuff, crucified means crucified, dead means dead, destroyed means destroyed, and passed away means passed away. :)
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Mixing things that don't mix. You have no clue what you're talking about.

Paul never said the old man died. The believer did, judicially, with Christ. If you can't see that, you'll see nothing else.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
If he died the way most people assume he did, as in complete eradication, then believers would no longer be capable of sinful deeds of the flesh, which they very much are. The sin drive would have been removed, leaving them incapable of sin. Even the desire to do so would be gone--nothing there anymore to desire it. Paul would have had no reason to exhort believers to be putting off the old and putting on the new. It would be automatic since there'd be no Sin to express itself as sins.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Old man: counted by God as crucified; believer by faith is to reckon same.

New man: counted as died with Christ (thereby is dead to sin, law and condemnation) and alive to God forevermore in Christ.

God sees the new man in Christ, in Whom He is created.

God does not see the old man. He is AS GOOD AS dead but is not dead YET because he (sin) still dwells in our members.

Rom 6:13 is a lie if the old man is literally dead.
 
I

I.S.I.T.

New member
musterion said:
If he died the way most people assume he did, as in complete eradication, then believers would no longer be capable of sinful deeds of the flesh, which they very much are. The sin drive would have been removed, leaving them incapable of sin.
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You mean like this....

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
I.S.I.T. said:
You mean like this....

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
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Who was John addressing?

Think really hard on how you know your answer.

Good job ignoring what I wrote btw.
 
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