The Vicarious Life and Death of Christ for the Believer

[john w]

I keep telling you this, but you don't believe it.

Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.

This why Paul said, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law. Do you not hear the law?" Galatians 4:21.

You apparently don't hear it.

You assert that the law was abolished-gone-satanic.

 

[Robert Pate]

You assert that the law was abolished-gone-satanic.

The law has been abolished only for believers. Unbelievers will be judged by it and condemned.

"By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

The law does not save or justify. Those that are trying to please God by the works of the law will be condemned.

"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20.

 

[john w]

The law has been abolished only for believers. Unbelievers will be judged by it and condemned.

1. The law does not apply to believers, a way of life, Pate. That is not equivalent to....

2. The law was abolished, done away with, at the cross-GONE, and,

3. You changed your argument, deceiver. You said it was abolished, done away with, at the cross=no longer exists.

4.

Unbelievers will be judged by it and condemned.

That is what I have been asserting, arguing, to you, for years, you deceiving punk, on this thread, and others,and you've been denying it.

Thus, you're a habitual liar.



"By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

I taught you that, deceiver. You, in contrast, have been asserting that the law was abolished, w/o exception, for everyone-gone-does not exist-nailed to the cross.

The law does not save or justify. Those that are trying to please God by the works of the law will be condemned.

"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20.

Never said it does, you false, satanic accuser, erecting straw mans, in your last few posts, as I picked you apart, and now you are trying to "save face," back peddle, act like you have not changed your argument.

Deceiver.

 

[Robert Pate]

1. The law does not apply to believers, a way of life, Pate. That is not equivalent to....

2. The law was abolished, done away with, at the cross-GONE, and,

3. You changed your argument, deceiver. You said it was abolished, done away with, at the cross=no longer exists.

4.

That is what I have been asserting, arguing, to you, for years, you deceiving punk, on this thread, and others,and you've been denying it.

Thus, you're a habitual liar.



"By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

I taught you that, deceiver. You, in contrast, have been asserting that the law was abolished, w/o exception, for everyone-gone-does not exist-nailed to the cross.


Never said it does, you false, satanic accuser, erecting straw mans, in your last few posts, as I picked you apart, and now you are trying to "save face," back peddle, act like you have not changed your argument.

Deceiver.

You have some sort of a problem. I have changed nothing. I have the same doctrine that I had 50 years ago. You have a an unchristian Spirit that I don't care to address. I am putting you on ignore. Goodbye.

 

[john w]

You have some sort of a problem. I have changed nothing. I have the same doctrine that I had 50 years ago. You have a an unchristian Spirit that I don't care to address. I am putting you on ignore. Goodbye.

Habitual liar. You asserted, have asserted, for years, that the law was abolished, ended, nailed to the cross, w/o exception.

In our name and on our behalf Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it, Ephesians 2:15....The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. If Jesus did not fulfill the law for us we would still be subject to it. Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.Sorry guys but you are wrong...
The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18 and then he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15..

Post #43:http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...he-Calvinist-Doctrine-of-Predestination/page3

The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. If Jesus did not fulfill the law for us we would still be subject to it. Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.

Sorry guys but you are wrong.

Post #58

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...he-Calvinist-Doctrine-of-Predestination/page4

The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18 and then he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.

Post #87:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...he-Calvinist-Doctrine-of-Predestination/page6

Whether you like it or not the Bible teaches that the law has been fulfilled and abolished.

Post #196

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...quot-and-not-by-rules-laws-or-religion/page14

Your whole problem is that you don't believe the Gospel. You don't believe that Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it. That means that there is nothing for you to do but to believe and live by faith. You just can't believe that you are Complete in Christ, Galatians 2:10. In my book you are a religious unbeliever.

Post #235

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...quot-and-not-by-rules-laws-or-religion/page16

All of that and no scripture.

The Bible says that the law has been Abolished.

Colossians 2:14, Ephesians 2:15.

Why is it you don't believe the Bible?

I am putting you on ignore. Goodbye.

You said that already, and keep "un ignoring" me, Pate, which further serves as evidence of your habitual lying, changing your story.


Face you-Lies, defiled, seared conscience, and all.

 

[musterion]

If we're saved by the sinless life of Christ, then why He died makes no sense.

 

[Robert Pate]

If we're saved by the sinless life of Christ, then why He died makes no sense.

We are saved by both his life and his death.

God requires two things for the salvation of fallen man.

1. A life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law.

2. A perfect atonement for our sins and the sins of the whole world.

Jesus, in our name and on our behalf has fully met all of these requirements. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's court as justified.

 

[meshak]

Hey John,

easy on your ranting.

 

[john w]

Jesus's purpose in coming into the world was not to destroy the law. His purpose was to provide salvation for fallen man. Having fulfilled the law for us, there was nothing left to do but to abolish it. It didn't accomplish its purpose, Hebrews 8:6.

What an idiot-does not even know what "abolish" means, butchering its biblical meaning. H e asserts, abolished at the cross, resurrected again for unbelievers.

No scripture says that He abolished the law, certainly not at the cross, moron.


Peter, the 11, kept the feasts, "post cross"-the feasts were according to the law:

Paul kept the feasts, "post cross"-the feasts were according to the law:

Acts 18 KJV

21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Acts 20 KJV
6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.


Acts 20 KJV

6 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.



Pate: The law was nailed to the cross!!!!!!The 12, Paul, did not keep the feasts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[john w]

Hey John,

easy on your ranting.

Good day to you, sir.

 

[john w]

Post #48:

This is the last time that I am going to discuss this with you. After that I am going to put you on ignore.

Vs.
I am irresistible-Post #62-un-ignore


Vs. post #64-addresses me again-un-ignore/ignore-again

I am putting you on ignore. Goodbye.

Pate changes his argument/story, on every other post.

 

[musterion]

We are saved by both his life and his death.

If you're saying He had to be sinless in order to be the perfect once-only Sacrifice for our sin, then that's true because that's found in both the OT and the NT. No Bible believer would argue it.

But if you're saying that His perfectly sinless life...that which He walked the flesh...is attributed/credited/reckoned to the believer, then that sinless walk ALONE would justify the believer by itself, by rendering him as sinless as Christ was, completely apart from the cross. It would make His death superfluous--it would say sin was dealt with by His life BEFORE the cross. It sounds vaguely similar to the Mormon belief that the work of salvation was wrought in the garden the night before the cross.

Perhaps I've been misunderstanding your claim, in which case I apologize. But, in any case, Paul said it was His death on the cross and His resurrection that accomplished our forgiveness and justification, not His sinless walk (by which we can no longer know Him, 2 Cor 5:16)

 

[musterion]

We are saved by both his life and his death.

God requires two things for the salvation of fallen man.

1. A life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law.

2. A perfect atonement for our sins and the sins of the whole world.

Jesus, in our name and on our behalf has fully met all of these requirements. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's court as justified.

Should have asked before.

Chapter and verse on this, please.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Simple enough, Robert:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...hat-says-you&p=4924918&viewfull=1#post4924918

:AMR:

AMR

 

[patrick jane]

Should have asked before.

Chapter and verse on this, please.

Romans 5:10 KJV - [FONT=&quot]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.[/FONT]

 

[john w]

Simple enough, Robert:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...hat-says-you&p=4924918&viewfull=1#post4924918

:AMR:

AMR

The Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the law, to be qualified to be the satisfactory sacrifice, the "lamb without blemish"-propitiation. But His keeping the law was not imputed to us, as Pate argues. This "vicarious law keeping" is a perversion of the gospel of Christ.

 

[john w]

Romans 5:10 KJV - [FONT="]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.[/FONT]

"saved by his life."

This is a reference to His resurrected life, not his life of obedience, fulfilling the law on earth, which Pate argues is reckoned/imputed/credited to our account.

 

[Robert Pate]

If you're saying He had to be sinless in order to be the perfect once-only Sacrifice for our sin, then that's true because that's found in both the OT and the NT. No Bible believer would argue it.

But if you're saying that His perfectly sinless life...that which He walked the flesh...is attributed/credited/reckoned to the believer, then that sinless walk ALONE would justify the believer by itself, by rendering him as sinless as Christ was, completely apart from the cross. It would make His death superfluous--it would say sin was dealt with by His life BEFORE the cross. It sounds vaguely similar to the Mormon belief that the work of salvation was wrought in the garden the night before the cross.

Perhaps I've been misunderstanding your claim, in which case I apologize. But, in any case, Paul said it was His death on the cross and His resurrection that accomplished our forgiveness and justification, not His sinless walk (by which we can no longer know Him, 2 Cor 5:16)

God demands righteousness. Jesus said, "Be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect" The law demands perfection. We don't have it to offer.

When Jesus died on the cross he put to death the whole Adamic race in himself, Romans 6:6. This is why Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ" God has brought forth a new humanity in the resurrection of Jesus, "If any man be "In Christ" he is a new creation, 2 Corinthians 5:17. The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Sin has been atoned for. "We are complete in Jesus Christ" Colossians 2:10. Jesus has victoriously justified the ungodly and has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18,19.

 

[beloved57]

God demands righteousness. Jesus said, "Be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect" The law demands perfection. We don't have it to offer.

When Jesus died on the cross he put to death the whole Adamic race in himself, Romans 6:6. This is why Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ" God has brought forth a new humanity in the resurrection of Jesus, "If any man be "In Christ" he is a new creation, 2 Corinthians 5:17. The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Sin has been atoned for. "We are complete in Jesus Christ" Colossians 2:10. Jesus has victoriously justified the ungodly and has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18,19.

But you teach that sinners Christ lived and died for are still lost and condemned!

 

[musterion]

Romans 5:10 KJV - For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom 5:9 explains it.