The Vicarious Life and Death of Christ for the Believer

[Lazy afternoon]

Here is something that you can have faith and believe in, and there is plenty of scripture to back it up. I learned this doctrine from a group of Christian scholars back in the 70's. It changed the way that I believed. I was very religious. All of my religious chains fell off when I learned this and I became God's free man in Jesus Christ.

All that Jesus Christ is and all that Jesus Christ has done is ours by faith.

Jesus Christ is God's great free gift for all of humanity. Not only is salvation a free gift from God that cannot be earned, deserved or imposed, Jesus himself is also God's great free gift.

"When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall you also appear with him in glory" Colossians 3:4.

Christ is our life. Our real life is at the right hand of God in heaven. It is the life that has been made perfect through suffering, Hebrews 2:10 and will make us perfect through his suffering.

"Therefore as by the offense of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) THE FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.

When Jesus lived, we lived in him.

When Jesus died, we died with him.

When Jesus arose from the dead, we arose with him.

When Jesus ascended into heaven, we ascended with him.

The vicarious life and death of Christ was such a reality to Paul that Paul screamed out at the legalistic Galatians, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live" Galatians 2:20.

The old Adamic Paul had been put to death in Jesus Christ, and a new born again Paul had been resurrected in Jesus Christ.

"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection" Romans 6:5.

We are in the likeness of his resurrection because we have been born again by the word of God, which is the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23. The new man in Christ is no longer concerned about sin, because he believes that his sins have been atoned for. The new man in Christ is not religious because he believes that he is complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10.

The vicarious death of Christ is spelled out for us in 2 Corinthians 5:21.

"For he (God) has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him".

Jesus in our name and on our behalf becomes sin for us. We are indeed in some very deep water here. How did Jesus become sin for us? While Jesus was hanging on the cross God took all of the sins of the world and our sins and put them on Jesus, 1 John 2:2. "He that knew no sin became sin for us". When God saw the sins of the world on Jesus, God put him to death. The sins of the whole world have been atoned for.

The holy righteous life of Jesus has been lived for us. It is the life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26. Jesus has atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. We now stand as complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

"And has raised us up together and has made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 2:6.

When Jesus entered into heaven, spiritually, we entered in heaven with him. Our salvation is in a very safe place. No one can steal it. No one can pervert it. It is our inheritance that is incorruptible and undefiled and that cannot fade away, reserved for you in heaven, 1 Peter 1:4.

Looks ok to me.

Jesus forgives us today because He both earned and was given the right to do so,

for Jesus paid all the debt of mans sin, but only those who are forgiven today in real time now, will escape the wrath of God,

and only those who lay down their own lives to serve and honor Jesus Christ as He did to His Father, are the real disciples who will rule and reign with Him.


Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

LA

 

[meshak]

Looks ok to me.

Jesus forgives us today because He both earned and was given the right to do so,

for Jesus paid all the debt of mans sin, but only those who are forgiven today in real time now, will escape the wrath of God,

and only those who lay down their own lives to serve and honor Jesus Christ as He did to His Father, are the real disciples who will rule and reign with Him.


Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

LA

LA,

Robert has been claiming that following Jesus' teachings is legalism.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

LA,

Robert has been claiming that following Jesus' teachings is legalism.

Do we think following this below is legalism?

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[meshak]

Do we think following this below is legalism?

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Nope, but you seem to support Robert. He quotes the scripture but he does not apply it.

 

[Robert Pate]

LA,

Robert has been claiming that following Jesus' teachings is legalism.

I don't think that I said that.

I might have said, "trying to be like Jesus will lead to legalism". There is a difference>

 

[Robert Pate]

Looks ok to me.

Jesus forgives us today because He both earned and was given the right to do so,

for Jesus paid all the debt of mans sin, but only those who are forgiven today in real time now, will escape the wrath of God,

and only those who lay down their own lives to serve and honor Jesus Christ as He did to His Father, are the real disciples who will rule and reign with Him.


Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

LA

All that Jesus is and all that Jesus did was for our justification and our salvation.

 

[meshak]

I don't think that I said that.

I might have said, "trying to be like Jesus will lead to legalism". There is a difference>

the same thing.

We should strive to be like Jesus. Jesus says to "follow Me".

You are not spreading anything different from those elitist believers.

 

[Robert Pate]

the same thing.

We should strive to be like Jesus. Jesus says to "follow Me".

You are not spreading anything different from those elitist believers.

You will never be like Jesus because you were born after Adam, Romans 5:12.

You need to accept your sinner hood. Paul did, Romans 7:13-25.

We are called to trust in his work and not our own. Have you entered into HIS rest? Hebrews 4:10

 

[meshak]

You will never be like Jesus

It is up to Jesus to judge.

nonetheless, He says to "follow Me."

why do you disregard His commands?

 

[Robert Pate]

It is up to Jesus to judge.

nonetheless, He says to "follow Me."

why do you disregard His commands?

While you are striving to be like Jesus. I have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

I am resting in the fact that I am complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

 

[meshak]

While you are striving to be like Jesus. I have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

I am resting in the fact that I am complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

You wont enter into His rest until you endure to the end. Your life in this world is not over, yet, friend.

you need to get rid of your false sense of security.

 

[Robert Pate]

You wont enter into His rest until you endure to the end. Your life in this world is not over, yet, friend.

you need to get rid of your false sense of security.

Resting in the work and the person of Jesus for my salvation is not false security.

False security is when you are trusting in your good works to save you when you are a sinner.

 

[meshak]

Resting in the work and the person of Jesus for my salvation is not false security.
.

You dont rest by spreading false gospel by saying following Jesus is legalism.

You are working against Jesus.

 

[Robert Pate]

You dont rest by spreading false gospel by saying following Jesus is legalism.

You are working against Jesus.

That's a nice thought that you can follow Jesus.

If you are striving to be like Jesus there is a good chance that you trying to be good enough to be saved, which means that your not.

"For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.

Christians do good works because they want to, not because they have to.

 

[Derf]

the same thing.

We should strive to be like Jesus. Jesus says to "follow Me".

You are not spreading anything different from those elitist believers.

You will never be like Jesus because you were born after Adam, Romans 5:12.

You need to accept your sinner hood. Paul did, Romans 7:13-25.

We are called to trust in his work and not our own. Have you entered into HIS rest? Hebrews 4:10

Paul also saw the need to be like Christ; he didn't "accept" his sinner-hood+:
[1Co 11:1 NKJV] Imitate me, just as I also [imitate] Christ.

And our rest appears to be in the future:
[Heb 4:9 NKJV] There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
[Heb 4:11 NKJV] Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
[Heb 4:14 NKJV] Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] confession.
[Heb 4:16 NKJV] Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

If Jesus's yoke is easy, and His burden is light, that doesn't mean there is no yoke and no burden. But it means that the most restful place one can be is in Him--which seems like it has to include being willing to do His will.

Can any real Christian really say that they don't want to do something Jesus might tell them to do? And while we can accept the fact that we have sinned [1Jo 1:8 NKJV]
[1Jo 1:10 NKJV], and possibly that we will sin more in the future , we should not be pleased with that idea, but we should buffet our bodies (flesh), 1 Cor 9:27, to make them obey what we want in our minds--that is, to be holy as He is holy.

[1Pe 1:13 NKJV] Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest [your] hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
[1Pe 1:14 NKJV] as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, [as] in your ignorance;
[1Pe 1:15 NKJV] but as He who called you [is] holy, you also be holy in all [your] conduct,

There is still a grace that is to come, and we are to rest our hope in that grace--the resurrection when He comes. How do we do that? by not conforming ourselves to our former lusts, but by being obedient children.

We are saved by His grace, but why in the world would anyone want to grieve our Father, who sent His precious Son to die for our sins, by continuing to sin?

[1Pe 1:17b NKJV] And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay [here] in fear;
[1Jo 2:4 NKJV] He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[john w]

No doubt about it, you need the law, 1 Timothy 1:9.

You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished.

The above will send you packing to hell demon....


John 5:39 KJV Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Pate: To h with you, God-I will attempt to delete 3/4 of scriptures, to prevent this "Jesus" from being known!!


Romans 3:21 KJV
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Pate: To h with you, God-I will attempt to delete 3/4 of scriptures, including the law, since it testifies to the righteousness of God without the law, and I need to prevent this teaching, on orders from my daddy the devil.



Luke 24:44 KJV And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.


Pate: To h with you, God-I will attempt to delete 3/4 of scriptures, to prevent this "Jesus" from being known!!

Psalm 40:7 KJV Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Pate: To h with you, God-I will attempt to delete 3/4 of scriptures, to prevent this "Jesus" from being known!!

You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished.

1 Corinthians 10 KJV

11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.




Romans 15 KJV


4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.



No, no, no, Paul!!!!!!!You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished, Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!.And no, Paul, the things that happened to others in the Old Testament for examples, for our admonition, and those things written for our learning in the Old Testament, to teach us patience, and provide us hope, do not!!!!!!!!!They no longer exists, as the Old Testament scriptures have been abolished!!!!!



http://www.freewebs.com/thywordis/PAUL QUOTES THE OT.htm


You wicked bible hater/deleter.

 

[Derf]

All that Jesus is and all that Jesus did was for our justification and our salvation.

Does Jesus not have any existence outside of dealing with our sin? I suppose if "Jesus" only refers to the one that was born to Mary, and not to the one that was in the beginning with the Father (Jn 1:2), that might be true, but John seems pretty clear that His existence was not dependent on ours nor on our sin.

 

[meshak]

Paul also saw the need to be like Christ; he didn't "accept" his sinner-hood+:
[1Co 11:1 NKJV] Imitate me, just as I also [imitate] Christ.

And our rest appears to be in the future:
[Heb 4:9 NKJV] There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
[Heb 4:11 NKJV] Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
[Heb 4:14 NKJV] Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] confession.
[Heb 4:16 NKJV] Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

If Jesus's yoke is easy, and His burden is light, that doesn't mean there is no yoke and no burden. But it means that the most restful place one can be is in Him--which seems like it has to include being willing to do His will.

Can any real Christian really say that they don't want to do something Jesus might tell them to do? And while we can accept the fact that we have sinned [1Jo 1:8 NKJV]
[1Jo 1:10 NKJV], and possibly that we will sin more in the future , we should not be pleased with that idea, but we should buffet our bodies (flesh), 1 Cor 9:27, to make them obey what we want in our minds--that is, to be holy as He is holy.

[1Pe 1:13 NKJV] Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest [your] hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
[1Pe 1:14 NKJV] as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, [as] in your ignorance;
[1Pe 1:15 NKJV] but as He who called you [is] holy, you also be holy in all [your] conduct,

There is still a grace that is to come, and we are to rest our hope in that grace--the resurrection when He comes. How do we do that? by not conforming ourselves to our former lusts, but by being obedient children.

We are saved by His grace, but why in the world would anyone want to grieve our Father, who sent His precious Son to die for our sins, by continuing to sin?

[1Pe 1:17b NKJV] And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay [here] in fear;
[1Jo 2:4 NKJV] He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

so whats your point?

 

[meshak]

That's a nice thought that you can follow Jesus.

It does not matter what I think, it is what Jesus says.

 

[Derf]

so whats your point?

I don't think we are completely in His rest yet, but part of being "in His rest" right now is that we follow Christ, just as Paul did.

Our deeds don't save us--only Christ's death can do that--but they do save us in that they are the restful path, and they keep us from doing ourselves further harm. Sin is harmful, and Jesus doesn't want us to harm ourselves through sin.