The Vicarious Life and Death of Christ for the Believer

[glorydaz]

By faith, Christians believe that Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it. If you don't believe that chances are that you will be judged by it.

I don't think Christians believe that, Robert.

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law. I guess I'll just have to believe He didn't.



Especially since we use the Law when we preach the Gospel. When someone tells me they don't sin, I have to tell them what sin is....a transgression of God's Law. We'd have to say not to worry because Jesus abolished the Law, according to you.

This is why it matters how you say what you say, and why blanket statements like you just gave are in error. You're saying that Christians believe Jesus abolished the Law. Is that what you tell the unsaved? It sure sounds like it.

 

[glorydaz]

Why do you suppose Paul said to the Galatians,

"Tell me that you desire to be under the law. DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW? Galatians 4:21.

Your rant is not with me. Your rant is with Paul.

:doh:

 

[Robert Pate]

I don't think Christians believe that, Robert.

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law. I guess I'll just have to believe He didn't.



Especially since we use the Law when we preach the Gospel. When someone tells me they don't sin, I have to tell them what sin is....a transgression of God's Law. We'd have to say not to worry because Jesus abolished the Law, according to you.

This is why it matters how you say what you say, and why blanket statements like you just gave are in error. You're saying that Christians believe Jesus abolished the Law. Is that what you tell the unsaved? It sure sounds like it.

Anyone that tells you that they don't sin is not a Christian. One of the works of the Holy Spirit is to convict of sin. If they are not being convicted of sin they don't have the Holy Spirit.

Jesus purpose in coming into the world was not to abolish the law. His purpose was to provide salvation for fallen man. Fallen man cannot be reconciled to God if he is under the law. The purpose of the law is to condemn. There is no condemnation for those that are "in Christ" Romans 8:1, because there is no law. It has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

 

[glorydaz]

Anyone that tells you that they don't sin is not a Christian. One of the works of the Holy Spirit is to convict of sin. If they are not being convicted of sin they don't have the Holy Spirit.

We would have no need to preach the Gospel to a Christian, would we? The Law has already done it's work in the believer....it has shown him his sin, and it has led him to faith in Christ Jesus. The point is that believers still use the law to preach the Gospel. That's true, isn't it?

Jesus purpose in coming into the world was not to abolish the law.

That's good because the Law is good, and it's perfect for the purpose it was given.

His purpose was to provide salvation for fallen man.

The Law doesn't provide salvation for fallen man, though, does it?

Fallen man cannot be reconciled to God if he is under the law.

Unbelievers are under the law, so that statement doesn't really make sense.

The purpose of the law is to condemn.

It's purpose? I wouldn't say that was it's purpose.

It's purpose is to show men what sin is, and then to lead them to faith in Christ. Just as Paul tells us. Gal. 3:24-25

There is no condemnation for those that are "in Christ" Romans 8:1, because there is no law. It has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

No, not because there is no law, but because our sins were paid for at the Cross.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.​

 

[Robert Pate]

We would have no need to preach the Gospel to a Christian, would we? The Law has already done it's work in the believer....it has shown him his sin, and it has led him to faith in Christ Jesus. The point is that believers still use the law to preach the Gospel. That's true, isn't it?



That's good because the Law is good, and it's perfect for the purpose it was given.



The Law doesn't provide salvation for fallen man, though, does it?



Unbelievers are under the law, so that statement doesn't really make sense.




It's purpose? I wouldn't say that was it's purpose.

It's purpose is to show men what sin is, and then to lead them to faith in Christ. Just as Paul tells us. Gal. 3:24-25



No, not because there is no law, but because our sins were paid for at the Cross.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.​

You cannot be made the righteousness of God if you are under a law that condemns you.

What does Galatians 3:24, 25 say. "But after faith is come, we are no longer under the schoolmaster (the law) We are no longer under the law because the law has been abolished for the believer.

 

[glorydaz]

You cannot be made the righteousness of God if you are under a law that condemns you.

What does Galatians 3:24, 25 say. "But after faith is come, we are no longer under the schoolmaster (the law) We are no longer under the law because the law has been abolished for the believer.

There are still plenty of folks who are under the law, Robert.
That's why the law has NOT been abolished.


Is that so hard for you to acknowledge?

 

[john w]

I don't think Christians believe that, Robert.

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law. I guess I'll just have to believe He didn't.



Especially since we use the Law when we preach the Gospel. When someone tells me they don't sin, I have to tell them what sin is....a transgression of God's Law. We'd have to say not to worry because Jesus abolished the Law, according to you.

This is why it matters how you say what you say, and why blanket statements like you just gave are in error. You're saying that Christians believe Jesus abolished the Law. Is that what you tell the unsaved? It sure sounds like it.

He asserts that the law was abolished/destroyed/made void/eliminated for Christians, but not for the lost,as it was "unabolished/undestroyed/un made void/uneliminated for the lost, which is convoluted, idiotic "logic," as there is no such thing as being in a state of destroyed, then being "resurrected" into a state of "undestroyed," no such thing as being in a state of abolished, then being "resurrected" into a state of "unabolished," as that violates the basic meaning of the words abolish/destroy.

And he continues to make the false dichotomy, again, via moronic "logic," that if the law was not abolished/destroyed, then we are going to be judged by it. Insanity. No, not being under the authority/jurisdiction of a law, of the law, does not mean that law must not exist anymore, does not mean it must be in a "destroyed/abolished" state.

The analogy, to "dumb it down" for him/others, is that just because US citizens are not under the jurisdiction of foreign countries' laws, that does not mean that foreign countries' laws are abolished/destroyed, no longer exist.

 

[Tambora]

To be under the law is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

Jesus was born under the law. Gal 4:4

 

[glorydaz]

He asserts that the law was abolished/destroyed/made void/eliminated for Christians, but not for the lost,as it was "unabolished/undestroyed/un made void/uneliminated for the lost, which is convoluted, idiotic "logic," as there is no such thing as being in a state of destroyed, then being "resurrected" into a state of "undestroyed," no such thing as being in a state of abolished, then being "resurrected" into a state of "unabolished," as that violates the basic meaning of the words abolish/destroy.

And he continues to make the false dichotomy, again, via moronic "logic," that if the law was not abolished/destroyed, then we are going to be judged by iy. Insanity. No, not being under the authority/jurisdiction of a law, of the law, does not mean that law must not exist anymore, does not mean it must be in a "destroyed/abolished" state.

The analogy, to "dumb it down" for him/others, is that just because US citizens are not under the jurisdiction of foreign countries' laws, that does not mean that foreign countries' law's are abolished/destroyed, no longer exist.

Yeah, and when you look at Romans 10:4, you see that Christ is the end of the law FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS for all who believe. That does not say the law ends or is abolished.

That believers have been "delivered" from the law, only means delivered from it's condemnation, doesn't it?

 

[john w]

There are still plenty of folks who are under the law, Robert.
That's why the law has NOT been abolished.


Is that so hard for you to acknowledge?

Bingo. He insists on employing "abolished," perverting the meaning of the word. Members of the boc are not under the law, i.e., not under it's authority/jurisdiction; but that does not mean, necessitate, that the law must not exit, does not mean, necessitate, that the must be destroyed/abolished. It's a false dichotomy.

 

[Robert Pate]

There are still plenty of folks who are under the law, Robert.
That's why the law has NOT been abolished.


Is that so hard for you to acknowledge?

The ones that are under the law are unbelievers, not Christians. Christians are under grace.

 

[john w]

Yeah, and when you look at Romans 10:4, you see that Christ is the end of the law FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS for all who believe. That does not say the law ends or is abolished.

That believers have been "delivered" from the law, only means delivered from it's condemnation, doesn't it?

Correct. And I/others, have explained to him, that the term "end of the law," in context, does not mean that the law was abolished/destroyed.

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?128414-The-Abolishment-of-God-s-Law/page4
Post #52.

 

[Robert Pate]

Bingo. He insists on employing "abolished," perverting the meaning of the word. Members of the boc are not under the law, i.e., not under it's authority/jurisdiction; but that does not mean, necessitate, that the law must not exit, does not mean, necessitate, that the must be destroyed/abolished. It's a false dichotomy.

Your problem is that you don't believe Paul.

"For you are not under the law, but under grace" Romans 6:14.

Christians are not under the law because the law has been abolished, Thank God.

 

[john w]

Your problem is that you don't believe Paul.

"For you are not under the law, but under grace" Romans 6:14.

Christians are not under the law because the law has been abolished, Thank God.

=spam.

You're problem is you are satanic, a false accuser, a demon, false accuser, and moron, engaging in deception, sophistry, besides being a habitual liar:

The Bible plainly says that the law was nailed to the cross, Colossians 2:14, not sin.

Vs.
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-is-the-End-of-the-Law-quot-Romans-10-4/page9
Post#128

What was nailed to the cross?

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances (which is the law) that was against us, which was contrary to us (no one could keep it or do it) and took it out of the way, NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS" Colossians 2:14.

The debt of the law was blotted out and nailed to the cross.

You don't have to be a theologian to understand that, just a Christian.

You were caught, in another lie, Pate, and TOL sees through your deception.

 

[glorydaz]

Your problem is that you don't believe Paul.

"For you are not under the law, but under grace" Romans 6:14.

Christians are not under the law because the law has been abolished, Thank God.

Your problem is PRIDE, Robert.

You just refuse to acknowledge that the law has NOT been abolished. That believers have been delivered from the taskmaster, doesn't mean that the taskmaster has been killed off.

Schools aren't abolished just because we happen to graduate from them.

I can just hear the graduates saying, "Thank God, schools have been abolished....no more schools." :banana:

 

[glorydaz]

Correct. And I/others, have explained to him, that the term "end of the law," in context, does not mean that the law was abolished/destroyed.

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?128414-The-Abolishment-of-God-s-Law/page4
Post #52.

Ah, the "end game". I like that. :thumb:

The very design of the law, is to to bring men/women, to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, for justification and salvation, as He alone gives that forgiveness/pardon, and resurrected life which the law shows the want of, but cannot provide. The Lord Jesus Christ is the "end game," so to speak, the culmination of God's holy law, in the sense that it has pointed to him, as the school master, and has been finalized/realized in him. God's holy law has not ceased to have a necessary function, nor has it ceased to have any value, nor is it void.

 

[john w]

Your problem is PRIDE, Robert.

You just refuse to acknowledge that the law has NOT been abolished. That believers have been delivered from the taskmaster, doesn't mean that the taskmaster has been killed off.

Schools aren't abolished just because we happen to graduate from them.

I can just hear the graduates saying, "Thank God, schools have been abolished....no more schools." :banana:

Excellentamundo analogy!And mine, i.e., just because we, as US citizens, are not under the authority,not under the jurisdiction, of the respective laws of other countries, does not mean/necessitate that the laws of other countries do not exist, are abolished, are destroyed.

 

[Epoisses]

Excellentamundo analogy!And mine, i.e., just because we, as US citizens, are not under the authority,not under the jurisdiction, of the respective laws of other countries, does not mean/necessitate that the laws of other countries do not exist, are abolished, are destroyed.

No one is saying that believers are not bound to the law of the land, tadpole. We are not bound to the carnal commandments of the old testament. Once again your pubescent and blanket definition for the word 'law' has you with egg all over your face. I pay my taxes every year, do you want to see the returns?

 

[glorydaz]

No one is saying that believers are not bound to the law of the land, tadpole. We are not bound to the carnal commandments of the old testament. Once again your pubescent and blanket definition for the word 'law' has you with egg all over your face. I pay my taxes every year, do you want to see the returns?

Not too bright, little slug.

It was an analogy that went right over your little slimy head. :rotfl:

Salt anyone?

 

[Epoisses]

Not too bright, little slug.

It was an analogy that went right over your little slimy head. :rotfl:

Salt anyone?

You probably cheat on your taxes and then sing out of tune in the choir.

Jesus loves me this I know cause the rapture tells me so.