The Trinity

[Rosenritter]

If you look at clouds in a puddle is that the image or the actual cloud?

We see God in Jesus because Jesus didn't live to please himself and he didn't sin, so we saw the express image of God through him.

The computer isn't me, it shows the image of me, the words of me but it isn't me. The computer doesn't think like me or speak like me it only speaks and shows what I give it to speak and show. The computer isn't me.

In the example of a computer that you used, the computer itself has no personality. It has no character, it does not think at all. The words you hear from it are not its words but the words of that which is represented by that image. What you call "speaking with the computer" most people would say was "speaking with the person" themselves. I would say that you were speaking with me.

Are you applying this to Jesus, that there was no separate person that was different than God?

 

[keypurr]

A "three piece" is a suit, Keypurr. :chuckle:

Did you note that I used your argument about pride?

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[keypurr]

"My translations?"

How about this one?

This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. - 1 John 5:6-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1John5:6-8&version=NKJV

Or this:

Yes, I have over thirty translations to compare friend.

Where does it say in your verse that they are all God?

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[keypurr]

We are not in the express image of God....nor did we come out from God, nor did we come down from heaven....nor did we create all things. What lengths and depths you folks won't go to in order to deny our Lord God and Saviour. :nono:

The truth is knocking at your door friend. I suggest you open the door and let the real Jesus enter your life.

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[Nihilo]

I asked that question with regards to the necessity for us to forgive others their trespasses against us. I understood the parable to tell us that if we will not forgive our brethren, that God's own forgiveness can and will be revoked. You understood this differently, so I was asking what would happen to someone that refused to forgive their neighbor but still thought they had salvation by the tail.

But you raised a separate point as to Christ's instructions to the man to sell all he had. I don't think it was about the economy. I don't think it was about the money either, or about the poor. I think the point was to get rid of anything that man had that was weighing him down that would stop him from following Christ at that moment. If he sells his items, the rich buy them with money and won't give them back. If he gives that money to the poor, the poor immediately use it (because they have need) and now that cannot be recovered either.

Matthew 26:6-11 KJV
(6) Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper,
(7) There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.
(8) But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?
(9) For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
(10) When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
(11) For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

The strategy is called "burning your ships" so that the only way out is forward. The application to us today is not about providing employment (if he had obeyed Jesus it wouldn't have created any jobs) but about cutting ourselves loose from anything that might get in our way of Christ, even if we must go to extremes.

So you don't want the direct answer. Here: can you explain why you don't take Romans 10:9 (KJV) literally? Or, "woodenly" literal? Why doesn't Romans 10:9 (KJV) answer your question?

There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

Do you think that this woman had a very dark view of the Christian faith? Because, you seem to. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel.

You too [MENTION=3801]keypurr[/MENTION], and Pops, Gt. Your view of the Christian faith is dark, to these eyes. The Christian faith has to be all brightness and light, not darkness.

 

[Rosenritter]

So you don't want the direct answer. Here: can you explain why you don't take Romans 10:9 (KJV) literally? Or, "woodenly" literal? Why doesn't Romans 10:9 (KJV) answer your question?

Now I'm not sure how you are reading Romans 10:9. Literally? Woodenly literally? Because simply confessing with the mouth and believing that he has risen from the dead in the literal wooden sense means nothing. Even the devils confess the Lord Jesus with their mouths and believe that he has risen from the dead (see Matthew 8:29, James 2:19) in the literal wooden sense. Obviously the words "confess" and "believe" mean a whole lot more than the simple literal wooden meaning.

If someone confesses that Jesus is Lord that also means that they are willing to serve him and to do his commandments. Look at the parables that Christ gave us regarding the kingdom of heaven? In the parable of the talents? What happened to the unprofitable servant which did not the will of his master? A servant which technically (in the literal wooden sense) confessed his master as Lord.

Read it yourself if you don't believe me:

Spoiler

Matthew 25:24-30 KJV
(24) Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
(25) And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
(26) His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
(27) Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
(28) Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
(29) For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
(30) And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What does it mean to believe in your heart that Jesus was risen from the dead? It means that it will now drive your actions and your entire being. The significance means more than the literal. The significance is that Jesus was who he said he was, that he has the power of life and death, and this indeed is something that we should give our very lives for.

There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

Do you think that this woman had a very dark view of the Christian faith? Because, you seem to. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel.

You too @keypurr, and Pops, Gt. Your view of the Christian faith is dark, to these eyes. The Christian faith has to be all brightness and light, not darkness.

I have no idea why you are lashing out at me, nor do I understand your response about the woman with the alabaster box having a "dark view" of the Christian faith. But if your understanding of Christianity is anything other than something to give your entire life for, I think that perhaps it's me that should be asking you why you're not seeing the brightness.

 

[Nihilo]

Now I'm not sure how you are reading Romans 10:9. Literally? Woodenly literally? Because simply confessing with the mouth and believing that he has risen from the dead in the literal wooden sense means nothing. Even the devils confess the Lord Jesus with their mouths and believe that he has risen from the dead (see Matthew 8:29, James 2:19) in the literal wooden sense. Obviously the words "confess" and "believe" mean a whole lot more than the simple literal wooden meaning.

False analogy.

If someone confesses that Jesus is Lord that also means that

I don't accept your interpretation of Romans 10:9 (KJV), and you arguing that I should, isn't succeeding.

they are willing to serve him and to do his commandments. Look at the parables that Christ gave us regarding the kingdom of heaven? In the parable of the talents? What happened to the unprofitable servant which did not the will of his master?

The will of their master was that they not permit fear of Him, to stop them from trying to earn profit for the master.

A servant which technically (in the literal wooden sense) confessed his master as Lord.

And if the servant makes the biggest bets possible in order to gain the most profit possible for the master, that is what I would expect of a servant of this particular master, if they really and truly understood exactly and precisely what is the master's will.

Read it yourself if you don't believe me:

Spoiler

Matthew 25:24-30 KJV
(24) Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
(25) And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
(26) His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
(27) Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
(28) Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
(29) For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
(30) And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What does it mean to believe in your heart that Jesus was risen from the dead? It means that

False, everything you say after this, because you're appealing to authority, your own, in making your determination, and you're not quoting Sacred Scripture. Why should I believe you? I shouldn't, on the merits. And I don't. And I'm being abrupt on purpose.

it will now drive your actions and your entire being. The significance means more than the literal. The significance is that Jesus was who he said he was, that he has the power of life and death, and this indeed is something that we should give our very lives for.

I believe HE IS RISEN. I don't know much, but I know that. I know HEISRISEN.

I have no idea why you are lashing out at me, nor do I understand your response about the woman with the alabaster box having a "dark view" of the Christian faith. But if your understanding of Christianity is anything other than something to give your entire life for, I think that perhaps it's me that should be asking you why you're not seeing the brightness.

HE IS RISEN. If you conclude from this one thing, anything dark, then you're doing it wrong. Recalculate. Try again and again. It's Good News. It can't be bad news, in any way. If you think it's bad news, you're objectively incorrect, though I condemn any attempt, to condemn anybody else, on that mark. That's all I'm sayin.'

 

[Rosenritter]

False analogy.
I don't accept your interpretation of Romans 10:9 (KJV), and you arguing that I should, isn't succeeding.
The will of their master was that they not permit fear of Him, to stop them from trying to earn profit for the master.
And if the servant makes the biggest bets possible in order to gain the most profit possible for the master, that is what I would expect of a servant of this particular master, if they really and truly understood exactly and precisely what is the master's will.
False, everything you say after this, because you're appealing to authority, your own, in making your determination, and you're not quoting Sacred Scripture. Why should I believe you? I shouldn't, on the merits. And I don't. And I'm being abrupt on purpose.
I believe HE IS RISEN. I don't know much, but I know that. I know HEISRISEN.
HE IS RISEN. If you conclude from this one thing, anything dark, then you're doing it wrong. Recalculate. Try again and again. It's Good News. It can't be bad news, in any way. If you think it's bad news, you're objectively incorrect, though I condemn any attempt, to condemn anybody else, on that mark. That's all I'm sayin.'

Well congratulations, even the devils know he is risen. What I don't understand is how you read this parable without recognizing that Jesus is that master, that it is about him and us, the kingdom of heaven, and eternal life. Jesus didn't come to tell us about smart gambling, profits, or how to provide jobs for the economy.

You said you stopped listening because I wasn't using an appeal to scripture. I think that you didn't recognize the appeal to scripture. Perhaps the few words I were using weren't being recognized.

James 2:19 KJV
(19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

James speaks on the matter of faith and belief, and the issue is that people have different ideas of what it means to believe and have faith. The literal wooden minimalist interpretation is the wrong interpretation. That's the topic of this epistle. If the faith and belief isn't life changing, it isn't the faith and belief that Jesus was talking about... thus, as James puts it, dead.

James 2:20 KJV
(20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Let's talk again about the parable of the talents. There were three servants in that parable. Two of them understood that their Lord was going away for a time, but would return. They understood this as GOOD NEWS. Because this was good news for them, the prepared for his coming with everything they were given.

But one servant saw this as BAD NEWS. He was fearful of his Lord's return, and as such he did not fully invest himself for his coming. I am concerned that you are terming this "BAD NEWS." Yes, faith and belief requires a total investment from us, a willingness to sell all that we have to purchase this pearl of great price. That's not bad news. Not for the believer. It's bad news for the one that does not truly confess with his mouth and believe with his heart. For him it's bad news, not for the believer.

Think about this please. If you consider this bad news, why?

 

[marhig]

Just listen to that. You just got through slandering me in this thread claiming I do things that I do not. You claim I twist your words. You are the word twister.

You are the twisting weed that you accused me of being.

I have never ever once said that I don't believe in the blood of Christ, I have said many times that I do. You keep saying that I don't. Stop it please as it is not the truth , because I do believe in the blood of Christ. And the cross of Christ I just don't see it as you do and I don't believe that it's the death of Jesus naturally that saves us. we are saved by his life, through him. Through faith by the grace of God.

Now if you are going to say that I've said something, then get it right please, and stop saying that I've said something when I haven't!

So just to clarify it, I believe in the blood of christ. There you go.

 

[God's Truth]

So you don't want the direct answer. Here: can you explain why you don't take Romans 10:9 (KJV) literally? Or, "woodenly" literal? Why doesn't Romans 10:9 (KJV) answer your question?

There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

Do you think that this woman had a very dark view of the Christian faith? Because, you seem to. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel.

You too [MENTION=3801]keypurr[/MENTION], and Pops, Gt. Your view of the Christian faith is dark, to these eyes. The Christian faith has to be all brightness and light, not darkness.

What is dark about what I say? Why are you bringing up the lady with the perfume?

 

[God's Truth]

I have never ever once said that I don't believe in the blood of Christ, I have said many times that I do. You keep saying that I don't. Stop it please as it is not the truth , because I do believe in the blood of Christ. And the cross of Christ I just don't see it as you do and I don't believe that it's the death of Jesus naturally that saves us. we are saved by his life, through him. Through faith by the grace of God.

Now if you are going to say that I've said something, then get it right please, and stop saying that I've said something when I haven't!

So just to clarify it, I believe in the blood of christ. There you go.

I already proved you are twisted. Now leave me alone. Something is terribly wrong with you.

 

[marhig]

In the example of a computer that you used, the computer itself has no personality. It has no character, it does not think at all. The words you hear from it are not its words but the words of that which is represented by that image. What you call "speaking with the computer" most people would say was "speaking with the person" themselves. I would say that you were speaking with me.

Are you applying this to Jesus, that there was no separate person that was different than God?

John 12

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.*For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak

John 7

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

 

[God's Truth]

Nope, I have never said that the shed blood of Jesus doesn't save, ...

And yes I do say its not his death but his life that saves.

 

[Rosenritter]

John 12

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.*For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak

John 7

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Marhig, who is the "one that judgeth him" in the last day from John 12 that you quoted?

Spoiler

John 5:22 KJV
(22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

And doesn't it say that "the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day? Meaning that the one who judges is the same as the originator of those words and that doctrine?

Jesus is speaking of himself. Obliquely, yes, but that one, and the one that sent him.... is the one who judges. And the one who judges, according to Jesus, is the Son of God.

 

[marhig]

As I said, I don't see the death of Jesus on the natural cross as his shed blood that saves. I see the shed blood spiritually, you're looking at it naturally, the natural blood of Jesus doesn't save, the spiritual blood that we drink does.

Just like it's not natural rivers that bring us spiritual life but the rivers of living water which is the Holy Spirit.

Natural blood delivers oxygen to the members of the body and keeps us alive, the blood of Christ delivers the breath of the Spirit to keep the members of the body of the church alive in God. Once we eat his flesh and drink his blood, then we take in his life, if we don't eat his flesh and drink his blood, then there is no life in us, his words are Spirit and they are life. Without the blood of Christ flowing through us by the power of the Spirit, then we are dead in our sins.

Jesus denied himself, bore his cross, turned from sin, and lived by the will of God. And those who truly believe in him will do the same through him, through faith, by the grace of God.

 

[God's Truth]

As I said, I don't see the death of Jesus on the natural cross as his shed blood that saves. I see the shed blood spiritually, you're looking at it naturally, the natural blood of Jesus doesn't save, the spiritual blood that we drink does.

Just like it's not natural rivers that bring us spiritual life but the rivers of living water which is the Holy Spirit.

Natural blood delivers oxygen to the members of the body and keeps us alive, the blood of Christ delivers the breath of the Spirit to keep the members of the body of the church alive in God. Once we eat his flesh and drink his blood, then we take in his life, if we don't eat his flesh and drink his blood, then there is no life in us, his words are Spirit and they are life. Without the blood of Christ flowing through us by the power of the Spirit, then we are dead in our sins.

Jesus denied himself, bore his cross, turned from sin, and lived by the will of God. And those who truly believe in him will do the same through him, through faith, by the grace of God.

What a twister. What a weed you are.

 

[marhig]

I already proved you are twisted. Now leave me alone. Something is terribly wrong with you.

No I'm spreaking the truth, they called Jesus evil and of the devil, so I'm in good company and yes I'll leave you alone, as long as you stop saying things that I've never said! Call me all you want, God will judge you on that, but I have to stand up when you say I have said something that I haven't, or others will believe it too.

 

[God's Truth]

No I'm spreaking the truth, they called Jesus evil and of the devil, so I'm in good company and yes I'll leave you alone, as long as you stop saying things that I've never said! Call me all you want, God will judge you on that, but I have to stand up when you say I have said something that I haven't, or others will believe it too.

I posted your twisted words.

You also wrongly judged me as being a twisted weed and prove it is what you are.

 

[marhig]

Marhig, who is the "one that judgeth him" in the last day from John 12 that you quoted?

Spoiler

John 5:22 KJV
(22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

And doesn't it say that "the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day? Meaning that the one who judges is the same as the originator of those words and that doctrine?

Jesus is speaking of himself. Obliquely, yes, but that one, and the one that sent him.... is the one who judges. And the one who judges, according to Jesus, is the Son of God.

I don't see the last day as you all do either!

Jesus said that the words he speaks are not his words, they are the fathers that sent him, and I believe him.

 

[marhig]

I posted your twisted words.

You also wrongly judged me as being a twisted weed and prove it is what you are.

I don't twist what you say. You do that to me. So please stop it. I'm not arguing with you like school children, if you feel the need to bad mouth me and call me all so sorts of evil things and have an audience to do it, then you go ahead. Just please at least repeat what I do say and not adding things that I don't say. And God is my judge on what I say and do so I'll leave that in his hands, thanks .