The Spiritual Person and the Natural Person

[Robert Pate]

Most of the contention on the Forum is between those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit and those who do not have the Holy Spirit.

The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is that God must see you as perfect and complete "In Christ". God will not impart his Holy Spirit to those who are outside of Christ. The Holy Spirit is only given to those who have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him. They are believers in the Gospel. They have heard the Gospel and believe that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has reconciled them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. The Holy Spirit is only given to those who have faith in Christ and his Gospel and are resting and trusting in Christ alone for their salvation.

"This only would I learn of you, Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something or became something) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

Faith and the Spirit only come by hearing and believing the Gospel.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

This may also be known as being born again by the word of God, which is the Gospel.

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God (the Gospel) which lives and abides forever" 1 Peter 1:23.

The natural man or person hears the Gospel, but he does not believe it or have faith in it.

"For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" Hebrews 4:2.

They heard it, but they could not believe it or have faith in it. It was foolishness to them.

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Without the Holy Spirit the Christian knows nothing. The Holy Spirit is the Christians teacher and guide, John 14:26. It is the Holy Spirit that reveals the Gospel to us and causes us to understand and believe it, John 16:14. What the natural man has is religion, he reasons everything from his religion. He takes the New Testament and turns it into his Torah. All that he can see or understand is the law. He is blind to the Gospel because he does not have the Holy Spirit who is the teacher and revealer of truth.

 

[jamie]

The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is that God must see you as perfect and complete "In Christ". God will not impart his Holy Spirit to those who are outside of Christ. The Holy Spirit is only given to those who have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him.

The prophet John who baptized Jesus was born with the Holy Spirit. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

It's a good thing these guys were in Christ.

 

[Robert Pate]

The prophet John who baptized Jesus was born with the Holy Spirit. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

It's a good thing these guys were in Christ.

Poor Jamie, cannot believe that salvation is by faith alone, Christ alone.

 

[jamie]

Poor Jamie, cannot believe that salvation is by faith alone, Christ alone.

Were John and Jesus in Christ?

 

[Ben Masada]

The Spiritual Person and the Natural Person.

We are all born as natural persons. What makes of us spiritual persons is so to speak a supernatural phenomenon that almost acts from outside and catches our attention as if we are conceived supernaturally. The fact that the phenomenon does not happen to all, makes us feel special as if we have been chosen.

 

[Ben Masada]

Were John and Jesus in Christ?

Yes, they were Jamie. "Christ" is not given in the NT as the family name of a person but the title that means anointed. John and Jesus were two Jewish men, part of the Anointed One of the Lord aka "Christ". If you read Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what "Christ" means the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel, the Son of God. "Israel is My Son," said HaShem. "So let My Son go that he may serve Me." (Exodus 4:22,23)

 

[Robert Pate]

The Spiritual Person and the Natural Person.

We are all born as natural persons. What makes of us spiritual persons is so to speak a supernatural phenomenon that almost acts from outside and catches our attention as if we are conceived supernaturally. The fact that the phenomenon does not happen to all, makes us feel special as if we have been chosen.

You know nothing of spiritual things because you are a natural man.

Your Jewish brother Peter says that you need to be born again, 1 Peter 1:23.

 

[Danoh]

According to 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3; when Paul mentioned the natural man, he was referring to the Corinthians (who were both saved and Spirit filled, but were looking at things through the natural man's perspective, thus; their divisiveness).

It was why they were against one another...

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

 

[chair]

Most of the contention on the Forum is between those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit and those who do not have the Holy Spirit...

Does this basically come down to "I can ignore anything that anybody says if they don't agree with me?"

 

[beameup]

I would differentiate between being SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT at the instant of FAITH in the Savior of mankind,
and WALKING in the SPIRIT, which involves "setting aside" the EGO and allowing (submitting to) the HOLY SPIRIT to give us SPIRITUAL strength, wisdom, knowledge, and guidance.

There are a plethora of lying and deceiving spirits that are eager to influence us through the "gate" of the EGO (ie: old man, flesh, carnal nature, etc.). I think we can clearly see the influence of these "evil spirits" on this forum.

 

[Robert Pate]

Does this basically come down to "I can ignore anything that anybody says if they don't agree with me?"

You don't have the Holy Spirit, therefore you don't have the truth.

 

[Robert Pate]

I would differentiate between being SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT at the instant of FAITH in the Savior of mankind,
and WALKING in the SPIRIT, which involves "setting aside" the EGO and allowing (submitting to) the HOLY SPIRIT to give us SPIRITUAL strength, wisdom, knowledge, and guidance.

There are a plethora of lying and deceiving spirits that are eager to influence us through the "gate" of the EGO (ie: old man, flesh, carnal nature, etc.). I think we can clearly see the influence of these "evil spirits" on this forum.

This is why we should try the Spirits to see if they be of God.

 

[Robert Pate]

According to 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3; when Paul mentioned the natural man, he was referring to the Corinthians (who were both saved and Spirit filled, but were looking at things through the natural man's perspective, thus; their divisiveness).

It was why they were against one another...

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

The Corinthian church was a mess.

 

[Danoh]

You don't have the Holy Spirit, therefore you don't have the truth.

There are plenty of instances in Scripture where lost people have, know, or speak the truth.

Were the Twelve not speaking the truth before they were later given the Spirit?

It is Bible study that results in understanding.

Proper study; that is.

That is something both the lost and the saved can do.

The thing that differs - where the Spirit's role is concerned is in His ability to save the lost who believe the Word, as well as His ability to transform the believer into the image of Christ.

How?

As the believer learns through proper study who God has made him is in Christ in the moment he believed.

As the believer learns about that and then walks in same by faith, the Spirit begins to transforms his outward behavior to where it begins to match his inward realilty in Christ.

The easiest way to defeat that is to allow personal feelings and what is actually the world's viewpoint, to influence our decision making.

The Corinthians had the gifts in abundance and then some; tge signs, the wonders, revelation, etc.

But they had remained babes in Christ because they made themselves the issue.

Both in where they had allowed themselves to look at various things from, but also, in the outward they looked at each other from.

In all this, it is obvious that possesing the Spirit is neither an automatic gurantee that one knows the truth, or is tapped into it.

As the writer of Hebrews put it...

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Everytime the believer goes with his or her own ideas of what is right or wrong; he makes himself that much more unable to hear what he needs to.

How?

By reason of use.

Study this out - having the Spirit is no automatic gurantee one has the truth.

Acess to and access of, differ.

 

[Robert Pate]

There are plenty of instances in Scripture where lost people have, know, or speak the truth.

Were the Twelve not speaking the truth before they were later given the Spirit?

It is Bible study that results in understanding.

Proper study; that is.

That is something both the lost and the saved can do.

The thing that differs - where the Spirit's role is concerned is in His ability to save the lost who believe the Word, as well as His ability to transform the believer into the image of Christ.

How?

As the believer learns through proper study who God has made him is in Christ in the moment he believed.

As the believer learns about that and then walks in same by faith, the Spirit begins to transforms his outward behavior to where it begins to match his inward realilty in Christ.

The easiest way to defeat that is to allow personal feelings and what is actually the world's viewpoint, to influence our decision making.

The Corinthians had the gifts in abundance and then some; tge signs, the wonders, revelation, etc.

But they had remained babes in Christ because they made themselves the issue.

Both in where they had allowed themselves to look at various things from, but also, in the outward they looked at each other from.

In all this, it is obvious that possesing the Spirit is neither an automatic gurantee that one knows the truth, or is tapped into it.

As the writer of Hebrews put it...

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Everytime the believer goes with his or her own ideas of what is right or wrong; he makes himself that much more unable to hear what he needs to.

How?

By reason of use.

Study this out - having the Spirit is no automatic gurantee one has the truth.

Acess to and access of, differ.

Beware of those that mix truth with error.

One of the works of the Holy Spirit is to lead you unto the truth, John 16:13.

I would not trust anyone that is not a born again Christian that believes the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law.

 

[beameup]

 

[Gurucam]

In no uncertain terms the Holy KJV N.T. says: 'thou shall not covet' is totally sin and death, it killeth.

In no uncertain terms the Holy KJV N.T. also says: spiritual people must transgressed this commandment so as serve spirit/love, unconditionally.

Christians ignore and transgress the thou shall not covet' commandment.

. . . of course Christians are not the billions who are called Christians. Christians are a chosen few, the chosen few. They are the chosen few who deliberately transgress the 'thou shall not covet' commandments to as to serve spirit/love.

Romans: 7 KJV N.T.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. (this is to soweth to the flesh)
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. (this is to soweth to the Spirit)
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

The 'thou shall not covet' commandment is a law of sin and death. It is a law which created sin and it was found to be onto death. It killeth. It is seriously flawed:

Hebrews: 8 KJV N.T.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Romans: 3 King James Version (KJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets

Acts: 13 King James Version (KJV)
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Galatians: 5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

To soweth to the 'thou shall not covet' commandment is to soweth to flesh. And this bring forth only fruits onto death. This the only way that a natural person can soweth.

On the other hand to transgress the thou shall not covet commandment so as to soweth to spirit/love is to soweth to the Spirit. And this bring forth only fruits onto God and no fruits on to death. This is the way that a spiritual person can soweth.

There is a serious bad consequence for soweth-ing to the 'thou shall not covet' commandment, instead of transgress the 'thou shall not covet' commandment, so as to soweth, unconditionally, to spirit/love:

Galatians: 6 King James Version (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Matthews: 21 KJV N.T.
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (i.e. fruits onto God).

There are only two types of people on earth: 1. natural people and 2. spiritual people . . . this is what the Holy KJV N.T. and Jesus say.

If the Holy O.T. and other Holy books say differently. Then beameup must beam down/quote those revelations for us or other wise simply say that he is expressing his own views . . . is this not totally fair?

 

[Gurucam]

The Spiritual Person and the Natural Person

A natural man/person is one's whose heart/spirit is 'waxed gross'. This person is not converted. This kind of person is not given, by God, to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.

A spiritual person is one whose heart or spirit is not waxed gross. This person is converted. This kind of person is given, by God, to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.

Matthew: 18 King James Version (KJV)
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Are you guys going to deny and corrupt the above clear and literal revelation from the Holy KJV N.T., simply to promote your own ideas?

The Lord Jesus identified only two kinds of humans on earth. 1. Natural or carnal humans and 2. Spiritual humans.

 

[Robert Pate]

Reminds me of those stupid seminars that they had in the 70's. They tried to teach people how they could live the victorious Christian life. It was all about religion.

 

[Robert Pate]

A natural man/person is one's whose heart/spirit is 'waxed gross'. This person is not converted. This kind of person is not given, by God, to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.

A spiritual person is one whose heart or spirit is not waxed gross. This person is converted. This kind of person is given, by God, to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.

Matthew: 18 King James Version (KJV)
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Are you guys going to deny and corrupt the above clear and literal revelation from the Holy KJV N.T., simply to promote your own ideas?

The Lord Jesus identified only two kinds of humans on earth. 1. Natural or carnal humans and 2. Spiritual humans.

Faith and the Holy Spirit are given to those who hear and believe the Gospel, Galaltians 3:2.