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The so-called "fossil record"

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One thing that evolutionists love to use as "evidence" of "goo to you" evolution is the so-called "fossil record". They claim that this is a record of change from simple to complex throughout eons of time. But, in reality, it is just lots of dead plants and animals (caused by a catastrophic world-wide flood).

They claim that "we see" animals changing from simple to complex through millions and billions of years... but there is NO evidence whatsoever that ANY of these dead animals had any offspring that lived. NONE. They are just bones in the ground.
 

kenny000

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The evolutionary theories based on fossils are one of the largest pieces of knowledge about life evolving, and while there may be several possible interpretations of it, it’s fun to find out how science and religion are compatible.
 

JudgeRightly

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The evolutionary theories based on fossils are one of the largest pieces of knowledge about life evolving, and while there may be several possible interpretations of it, it’s fun to find out how science and religion are compatible.

People who claim that the "fossil record" is evidence of evolution are missing the forest for the trees, because in actuality, the "fossil record" is evidence for a global flood and a young earth.
 

Sherman

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Most of the dinosaur fossils are found in 'graveyards' where it is apparent the bones were washed together by a cataclysmic event involving water.
 

Derf

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The evolutionary theories based on fossils are one of the largest pieces of knowledge about life evolving, and while there may be several possible interpretations of it, it’s fun to find out how science and religion are compatible.
A theory cannot be a piece of knowledge.
 

SwordOfTruth

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People who claim that the "fossil record" is evidence of evolution are missing the forest for the trees, because in actuality, the "fossil record" is evidence for a global flood and a young earth.

This is nonsense. The fossils demostrate how each type of animal existed whilst it was alive. The fossils show how the creature was skeletally designed, whether it had legs, arms, wings and so on. Plus they offer DNA samples which can be compared between evolutionary forms which show common ancestry. The fossil record serves as irrefutable evidence of evolution through its documentation of transitional forms, its integration with genetic data and its predictive capabilities.
 

JudgeRightly

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This is nonsense. The fossils demostrate how each type of animal existed whilst it was alive. The fossils show how the creature was skeletally designed, whether it had legs, arms, wings and so on. Plus they offer DNA samples which can be compared between evolutionary forms which show common ancestry. The fossil record serves as irrefutable evidence of evolution through its documentation of transitional forms, its integration with genetic data and its predictive capabilities.

Like I said. You're missing the forest for the trees,

The ENTIRE "COLUMN" is evidence of a worldwide flood,

Because ALL OF IT was laid down by water.
 

SwordOfTruth

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Like I said. You're missing the forest for the trees,

The ENTIRE "COLUMN" is evidence of a worldwide flood,

No it doesn't. Fossils are found in distinct layers of sedimentary rock, with older layers containing simpler, more primitive organisms and newer layers showing more complex forms. Such "stratification" is indicative of gradual change and evolution over millions of years.

Radiometric dating shows the age of rocks and fossils and shows that life on Earth has evolved over millions of years. The geological time scale shows the history of life including the advent of major events such as mass extinctions and also the beginning of new species.

Fossil "succession" deals with the prevalence of specific kinds of fossils found at specific geological layers and such fossils are found in those same layers all over the world which supports evolution. Were they to indicate a great global flood then there would have to have been repeated worldwide floods to create each geological layer with the same type of fossils in.

The fossil stratification also highlights extinction level events but crucially that after them, life once again began and started evolving again. The record shows numerous extinction events not one. For example the Permian-Triassic extinction and the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction. In every case life continues to evolve afterward.

Fossilisation typically occurs under certain conditions, such as rapid burial in sediment, low oxygen environments, mineralisation and so on. A global flood would need to have created uniform conditions across the entire planet and that just doesn't gel with the reality of the localised and varied conditions observed in fossilisation.

Localised flooding can certainly lead to the burial of organisms and fossilisation, however the fossil record reflects a complex history of life involving various local and regional events rather than a single, worldwide flood.
 

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No it doesn't. Fossils are found in distinct layers of sedimentary rock, with older layers containing simpler, more primitive organisms and newer layers showing more complex forms. Such "stratification" is indicative of gradual change and evolution over millions of years.
False!
Radiometric dating shows the age of rocks and fossils and shows that life on Earth has evolved over millions of years. The geological time scale shows the history of life including the advent of major events such as mass extinctions and also the beginning of new species.
Radiometric dating is a con game. You have no idea when and where the elements were created. You have no idea of their history (i.e., constant change over "millions/billions" of years).
Fossil "succession" deals with the prevalence of specific kinds of fossils found at specific geological layers and such fossils are found in those same layers all over the world which supports evolution.
Fossil "succession" is purely imagination.
Were they to indicate a great global flood then there would have to have been repeated worldwide floods to create each geological layer with the same type of fossils in.
Again, a vivid imagination is all that you have.

There is NO reason to believe that ONE worldwide flood requires MORE worldwide floods.
The fossil stratification also highlights extinction level events but crucially that after them, life once again began and started evolving again.
There was a SINGLE "extinction level event". It goes by the name of NOAH'S FLOOD.
The record shows numerous extinction events not one.
Only in your vivid imagination.
For example the Permian-Triassic extinction and the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction. In every case life continues to evolve afterward.
Life has always branched out from the originally created kinds. It's not hard to see unless you blind yourself.
Fossilisation typically occurs under certain conditions, such as rapid burial in sediment, low oxygen environments, mineralisation and so on. A global flood would need to have created uniform conditions across the entire planet and that just doesn't gel with the reality of the localised and varied conditions observed in fossilisation.
The worldwide flood provides the exact conditions needed to create BILLIONS of fossils.
Localised flooding can certainly lead to the burial of organisms and fossilisation, however the fossil record reflects a complex history of life involving various local and regional events rather than a single, worldwide flood.
You are brainwashed.
 

SwordOfTruth

Active member

That's not an argument. Saying it's false doesn't make it so. It just makes you look inadequate.

Radiometric dating is a con game. You have no idea when and where the elements were created. You have no idea of their history (i.e., constant change over "millions/billions" of years).

Nonsense. Each isotope has a known half-life, which allows scientists to calculate the age of a sample based on the ratio of parent isotopes to daughter isotopes. Learn some basic science before you engage in such discussions.


Fossil "succession" is purely imagination.
Again this is not an argument just the childish naysaying of anything you don't like.

Certain fossils, known as index fossils, are particularly useful for establishing the relative ages of rock layers. These fossils are typically widespread, easily recognizable, and existed for a relatively short geological time. Examples include:
  • Trilobites: These marine arthropods were abundant and diverse during the Paleozoic Era, particularly in the Cambrian and Ordovician periods.
  • Ammonites: These mollusks are found in many Mesozoic strata and are used extensively for dating and correlating Jurassic and Cretaceous rocks.
Basic geology.


Again, a vivid imagination is all that you have.

There is NO reason to believe that ONE worldwide flood requires MORE worldwide floods.

Dear oh dear. If there are fossils all lying within one geological layer followed by very few afterward then that would indicate an extinction level event such as the Great Flood or the Permian-Triassic extinction or the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction. If there are subsequently found loads more fossils in more recent geological layers then clearly life has continued evolving beyong the extinction level. If the fossils in another layer then all disappear shortly afterward then that most certainly indicates another extinction event. This is what scientists observe. There are numerous geological layers, all over the world showing numerous extinction level events. A flood could certainly be one of them, but one worldwide flood doesn't and can't explain the prior or subsequent extinction events. Those are the facts.

You can have your own opinions but you can't have your own facts.

There was a SINGLE "extinction level event". It goes by the name of NOAH'S FLOOD.

Patently untrue. There are in fact at least 5 large extinction level events that have occurred which are:

  1. Ordovician-Silurian Extinction (about 443 million years ago)
    • Causes: Likely caused by a combination of climate change, glaciation, and a drop in sea levels.
    • Impact: Approximately 85% of marine species went extinct, including many trilobites and brachiopods.
  2. Late Devonian Extinction (about 359 million years ago)
    • Causes: Potential causes include changes in sea level, climate change, and possibly asteroid impacts.
    • Impact: Around 75% of species, particularly marine life, were lost over a prolonged period.
  3. Permian-Triassic Extinction (about 252 million years ago)
    • Causes: This event is thought to have been caused by massive volcanic eruptions (Siberian Traps), climate change, and ocean anoxia.
    • Impact: The most severe extinction event, with about 96% of marine species and 70% of terrestrial vertebrate species going extinct.
  4. Triassic-Jurassic Extinction (about 201 million years ago)
    • Causes: Likely caused by volcanic activity, climate change, and possibly asteroid impacts.
    • Impact: Approximately 80% of species went extinct, paving the way for the dominance of dinosaurs in the Jurassic period.
  5. Cretaceous-Paleogene Extinction (about 66 million years ago)
    • Causes: Widely attributed to a combination of a massive asteroid impact (Chicxulub crater) and volcanic activity (Deccan Traps).
    • Impact: About 75% of species, including the non-avian dinosaurs, went extinct.

Again you can have your own opinions but you can't have your own facts.

Only in your vivid imagination.

Nope. It's scientific fact, nothing to do with my personal opinion.

Life has always branched out from the originally created kinds. It's not hard to see unless you blind yourself.

Yep and that's evolution

The worldwide flood provides the exact conditions needed to create BILLIONS of fossils.

Yep it certainly does and it creates those billions of fossils in the same geological layer, it has to if it's a worldwide flood. If it were the only extinction event of its kind in history then we would not find other examples of billions of fossils in prior or subsequent geological layers. Unfortunately for you, that's exactly what scientists/geologists observe.


You are brainwashed.

Nope. I'm going from the facts and science. You're going from religious dogma and blinkered adherence to words in documents not to actual evidence.

Brainwash
"to make someone believe something by repeatedly telling them that it is true and preventing other information from reaching them"

Your beloved scriptures (human documents going back only a few hundred years) are no match for real science which can reveal what occured millions of years ago. You allow yourself to be brainwshed when you fail to change your stance when presented with new evidence.
 

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That's not an argument. Saying it's false doesn't make it so. It just makes you look inadequate.
It's just the truth. I know that the truth is always a big problem for you.
Nonsense. Each isotope has a known half-life, which allows scientists to calculate the age of a sample based on the ratio of parent isotopes to daughter isotopes. Learn some basic science before you engage in such discussions.
LOL...

Here are your problems:
  1. As I stated already... you do NOT know the ORIGIN of these materials. Therefore, you do NOT know what the original ratios of those elements were.
  2. You do NOT know the HISTORY of those elements. There are MANY ways that the ratios can change that are NOT based on the half-lives of them.
  3. You do NOT know if the mother and daughter elements have been affected by outside influences during your supposed "millions/billions" of years.
Again this is not an argument just the childish naysaying of anything you don't like.

Certain fossils, known as index fossils, are particularly useful for establishing the relative ages of rock layers. These fossils are typically widespread, easily recognizable, and existed for a relatively short geological time. Examples include:
  • Trilobites: These marine arthropods were abundant and diverse during the Paleozoic Era, particularly in the Cambrian and Ordovician periods.
  • Ammonites: These mollusks are found in many Mesozoic strata and are used extensively for dating and correlating Jurassic and Cretaceous rocks.
Basic geology.
All based on chosen assumptions and circular reasoning.

The fossils date the rocks and the rocks date the fossils. You're not fooling anyone except those that are gullible.

You need to believe the truth instead of your cherished fairy tales.
 
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JudgeRightly

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No it doesn't.

Doesn't what?

Again, you're missing the forest for the trees.

The ENTIRE "COLUMN" was laid down by the Flood. Every single layer.

Fossils are found in distinct layers of sedimentary rock, with older layers containing simpler, more primitive organisms and newer layers showing more complex forms.

All of the creatures found in the mile-deep of sedimentary layers are of their own "kinds."

Evolution didn't happen.

The layers were "sorted" during the flood.

Such "stratification" is indicative of gradual change and evolution over millions of years.

No, it isn't.

Especially when every single layer was laid down by water, and that's even confirmed by secular scientists.

Such rock only forms through deposition by water.

Radiometric dating shows the age of rocks and fossils

No, it just tells us how much of a certain radioactive material is in them or how much radiation it gives off.

Such radiometric readings (and thus, the "age" of such rocks/fossils) can be affected by external events, such as Z-pinch, which is when an electric current generates a magnetic field that compresses a column of plasma.

Do you know what happens when you compress quartz?

It generates a current.

Guess what's made largely out of quartz.

The crust of the earth.

What happens when the crust of the earth is flexed, resulting in compression and expansion of that quartz?

EXTREMELY large currents are generated.

And wouldn't you know it, as a result of z-pinch, matter is compressed, and given enough energy, radioactive elements can be created.

Which would throw off any scientist trying to "radiometrically date" a given rock or fossil, because it literally changes the base assumption of the amount of original radioactive material.

In other words, the Flood of Noah resulted in the creation of all or almost all of original radioactive material on earth.

Guess where 99% of all radioactive material is found on the earth?

In the earth's crust.

Which was greatly affected by the flood.

and shows that life on Earth has evolved over millions of years.

Sorry, but no.

You've been lied to, and fallen hook, line, and sinker for it.

The geological time scale shows the history of life including the advent of major events such as mass extinctions and also the beginning of new species.

The "geological time scale" is a myth perpetuated by scientists who reject the truth of Scripture.

It was, all of it, laid down within a year.

Fossil "succession" deals with the prevalence of specific kinds of fossils found at specific geological layers and such fossils are found in those same layers all over the world which supports evolution.

Or so evolutionists claim...

Were they to indicate a great global flood then there would have to have been repeated worldwide floods to create each geological layer with the same type of fossils in.

Still missing the forest for the trees, I see.

The fossil stratification also highlights extinction level events

Event. Singular.

There was ONE event. The Flood.

It wiped out all life on earth, save a man and his 7 family members, plus a few animals.

but crucially that after them, life once again began and started evolving again.

Live has never "evolved."

Adapted? Sure. Changed? Sure.

But macroevolution? No.

The record shows numerous extinction events not one. For example the Permian-Triassic extinction and the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction. In every case life continues to evolve afterward.

Made up nonsense to pull people away from God. They just dressed it up nicely so you wouldn't notice.

Fossilisation typically occurs under certain conditions, such as rapid burial in sediment, low oxygen environments, mineralisation and so on.

Things extremely common at the beginning of the flood.

Rapid burial: The fountains of the great deep launched material up into the air, and what didn't achieve escape velocity, fell back to earth and rapidly buried the creatures that could not escape to higher ground (which wouldn't have mattered anyways, since the flood covered the highest hills (There were no mountains before the flood, at least, not what we today would call "mountains.")) Have you ever noticed that not only are there fossils of things like clams at the tops of mountains, but that there are never any fossils of larger creatures? Could it possibly be because, due to their altitude, they would not have been buried, or at least, as rapidly, like creatures that could not make it to higher altitudes?

Low oxygen environments: lack of oxygen would definitely be a problem for things being buried in the debris from the flood, followed by drowning, which is also common for fossils...

Mineralization: You mean what causes fossils to turn to minerals? Or something else?

A global flood would need to have created uniform conditions across the entire planet and that just doesn't gel with the reality of the localised and varied conditions observed in fossilisation.

The whole earth was covered in water,

I'm not sure how that isn't "uniform conditions"...

Localised flooding can certainly lead to the burial of organisms and fossilisation, however the fossil record reflects a complex history of life involving various local and regional events rather than a single, worldwide flood.

Again, you've been lied to.

The "fossil record" as a whole is a snapshot of life on earth at the time of the Flood.
 

marke

Well-known member
The evolutionary theories based on fossils are one of the largest pieces of knowledge about life evolving, and while there may be several possible interpretations of it, it’s fun to find out how science and religion are compatible.
The preservation of large animal fossils would not have been possible had there been no massive universal flood to bury and preserve the fossils.
 

marke

Well-known member
This is nonsense. The fossils demostrate how each type of animal existed whilst it was alive. The fossils show how the creature was skeletally designed, whether it had legs, arms, wings and so on. Plus they offer DNA samples which can be compared between evolutionary forms which show common ancestry. The fossil record serves as irrefutable evidence of evolution through its documentation of transitional forms, its integration with genetic data and its predictive capabilities.
Evolutionists prove themselves incapable of honestly evaluating all the facts, particularly those facts that contradict evoutionist speculations. For example, evolutionists speculate that large mammoth fossils were preserved by shallow sea sedimentation over long periods of time, which would not have been possible to the decay rates and lack of sediment compaction in shallow seas.
 

marke

Well-known member
No it doesn't. Fossils are found in distinct layers of sedimentary rock, with older layers containing simpler, more primitive organisms and newer layers showing more complex forms. Such "stratification" is indicative of gradual change and evolution over millions of years.

Radiometric dating shows the age of rocks and fossils and shows that life on Earth has evolved over millions of years. The geological time scale shows the history of life including the advent of major events such as mass extinctions and also the beginning of new species.

Fossil "succession" deals with the prevalence of specific kinds of fossils found at specific geological layers and such fossils are found in those same layers all over the world which supports evolution. Were they to indicate a great global flood then there would have to have been repeated worldwide floods to create each geological layer with the same type of fossils in.

The fossil stratification also highlights extinction level events but crucially that after them, life once again began and started evolving again. The record shows numerous extinction events not one. For example the Permian-Triassic extinction and the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction. In every case life continues to evolve afterward.

Fossilisation typically occurs under certain conditions, such as rapid burial in sediment, low oxygen environments, mineralisation and so on. A global flood would need to have created uniform conditions across the entire planet and that just doesn't gel with the reality of the localised and varied conditions observed in fossilisation.

Localised flooding can certainly lead to the burial of organisms and fossilisation, however the fossil record reflects a complex history of life involving various local and regional events rather than a single, worldwide flood.
Shallow seas do not form layers of thick hardened sedimentary rock in which large animal fossils are discovered. There are no hardened sedimentary rock layers under the ocan like we find above sea level with abundance of fossils.

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Sedimentary rock under the ocean generally consists of finer-grained material like mud and silt due to the calmer depositional environment compared to the coarser grains often found in sedimentary rocks above sea level, which are more influenced by strong currents and weathering from land, leading to a higher proportion of sand and pebbles; additionally, deep ocean sediments often contain a larger percentage of biogenic material like shells from marine organisms, depending on the depth and water conditions, while terrestrial sedimentary rocks may have more plant fossils depending on the environment where they formed.
 
Plus they offer DNA samples which can be compared between evolutionary forms which show common ancestry.
This only works to show ancestry within kinds. That's why it works with humans, because kinds bring forth there own kind.
Even most evolutionists will admit that you cant just sequence DNA and build a phylogenetic trees from DNA comparisons. Even when they assume universal common ancestry is true, it still doesn't work. There are many reasons for this. The main reason of course being, that there is no universal common ancestry! :D
 
Evolutionists prove themselves incapable of honestly evaluating all the facts, particularly those facts that contradict evolutionist speculations. For example, evolutionists speculate that large mammoth fossils were preserved by shallow sea sedimentation over long periods of time, which would not have been possible to the decay rates and lack of sediment compaction in shallow seas.
Not to mention all of the upright nautiloids buried at the Grand Canyon.

www.rememberthenautiloids.com
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ

Next step is to crack open that amber sucker and test it for carbon-14

Odds anybody will do that?

Approaching zero.

There's zero chance there's widespread contamination errors in these tests. They test carbon in carbonate rock all the time, and that never has any carbon-14 in it (it didn't come from life). The small amount that's commonly detected in fossil matter is definitely really there, otherwise carbonate rock would also register the same small value periodically.
 

marke

Well-known member
There's zero chance there's widespread contamination errors in these tests. They test carbon in carbonate rock all the time, and that never has any carbon-14 in it (it didn't come from life). The small amount that's commonly detected in fossil matter is definitely really there, otherwise carbonate rock would also register the same small value periodically.
Testing labs seem sure of themselves until their tests prove evolution assumptions wrong, as in dinosaur bone testing.


Radiocarbon Dating of Dinosaur Fossils | TASC (tasc-creationscience.org) Nov 2013

Radiocarbon Dating of Dinosaur Fossils

November 2013

Dinosaurs supposedly died out 65 million years ago.
What if they didn’t?

Carbon-14 dating was recently performed on dinosaur fossils, 1 and the results were presented at the Western Geophysics Meeting in Singapore, August 2012, a gathering of approximately two thousand scientists. 1 The carbon-14 dating involved precautions against contamination. Several tests were done by the University of Georgia using accelerator mass spectrometry. The age for all these fossils was found to be less than 50,000 years. 1 This is not predicted by conventional evolutionary theory; and other discoveries have been made concerning dinosaurs which also are not predicted by evolutionary theory such as the discovery of soft tissue in bones that are not or are only partially fossilized. 2 Both the carbon-14 dating results and the discovery of soft tissue in incompletely fossilized dinosaur bones share the common theme of being indicators of much younger ages for dinosaurs than evolution claims. Compared to the conventional theory of dinosaurs’ being at minimum 65 million years old, the time it would take soft tissue to degrade and the < 50,000 year ages reported from carbon-14 dating are less than 1 tenth of 1 percent of the expected age for the dinosaur fossils.

Hugh Miller and others authored a paper detailing the results of carbon-14 dating of dinosaur fossils which was presented at the Western Geophysics Meeting in Singapore, August 2012. 3 , 4 The ages for the dinosaur fossils presented in this paper were far younger than the conventionally accepted ages. Each of the two thousand meeting participants was given a disc which included the abstract of the carbon-14 dating report. However, the abstract of the Miller presentation was removed from the website for the conference. 1 , 5 Why is the information presented in the paper important? If the accepted ages of millions of years for dinosaurs were to be found to be in error, this would be a problem to evolution. The dinosaur dates reported below and discussed in the AOGS 2012 paper discussed throughout this article, included triceratops, hadrosaur, allosaurus, and acrocanthasaurs. Below is a list of some dinosaur fossils and their dated ages from the Miller paper. 6

  • An allosaurus from the Morrison formation, late Jurassic, found in 1989 was dated by the University of Georgia by accelerator mass spectrometry. The age was found to be 31,360 ± 100 years old.
  • The femur of an Upper Creataceous Hell Creek formation triceratops-like dinosaur (perhaps a new type of ceratopsid) found in 2007 was carbon-14 dated by the University of Georgia using accelerator mass spectrometry and found to be 39,230 ± 140 years old.
  • Another Hell Creek formation dinosaur, found in 2004, a triceratops, was dated by the University of Georgia by accelerator mass spectrometry in 2009 as 24,340 ± 70 years old.
  • An apatosaurus was found in late Jurassic strata of the Morrison formation, and excavation was done in 2007 and 2009. In 2011 the University of Georgia dated the fossil to 38,250 ± 160 years old.
  • A hadrosaur’s hip bone was found in 2011 in the Hell Creek formation. The University of Georgia dated a sample from this bone to be 37,660 ± 160 years old.
  • In 2012 a triceratops horn was found. The University of Georgia dated the fossil to be 33,570 ± 120 years old.
  • A femur bone from a hardosaur in 2004 was found in the Hell Creek formation. The University of Georgia using accelerator mass spectrometry dated the sample to 25,670 ± 220 years old.
  • An acrocanthosaurus (carnivorous dinosaur) specimen was excavated in 1984 near Glen Rose, Texas and was tested in 2010 by the University of Georgia. It was found to be 29,690 ± 90 years old.
Are the dates beyond the range of testing technology? No, the University of Georgia had extended the maximum limit up over 50,000 years, and the ages were all well below this. Are the ages still too old? After all, even though these ages are much younger than conventional ages, many creationists believe life on earth to be much younger than even the reported carbon-14 ages of these dinosaur fossils. This question will be dealt with in a later section of this article.

Another question that might come up with respect to these studies is the issue of contamination. If young organic material became mixed with the dinosaur material that was carbon-14 dated, then the younger material would skew the result to a younger age.

Special care was taken to prevent this kind of contamination.

Bones were cleaned by ultrasonics.

  • Then the bone was crushed and acetic acid was applied to remove any possible external contamination (carbonates).
  • Hydrochloric acid was added to dissolve the bone and release carbon dioxide, which was then chemically treated to produce graphite. This graphite was then tested for carbon-14. 7
Another report shows that a mosasaur was dated at about 24,000 years old; 8 , 9 this result was blamed on bacterial contamination, though no bacteria were discovered. 10 , 11
 
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