glorydaz
Well-known member
Your argument is with Scripture.
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
The Serious Consequences of NOT Believing that Jesus Atoned for the Sins of the World
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Your argument is with Scripture.
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Unbelief is unforgivable
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, John is pointing out the basis for all sin....unbelief. The cross took care of the effects of that unbelief (sin), but it's unbelief that separates us from God. The coming Comforter is making it clear that those who refuse to turn to God and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are condemned. It doesn't get any clearer than that. It's why the Gospel tells us, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Actually, it's written over and over again in God's Holy Scripture. Hard to miss.
Epoisses
New member
It doesn't logically lead to universalism because it is history not who ultimately ends up in heaven or hell. But of course that goes against your Calvinist paradigm so it is unwelcomed and shunned. Like you would know anything about love who sees all others as goats and reprobates simply because they disagree with you.
Epoisses
New member
The word sovereign does not appear in the bible not even once. It is wholly an invention of man where the bible concludes that some sins are unforgivable like unbelief and pride.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yep, and that's what John is talking about when he speaks of the Comforter who was to come. Not believing the Gospel of Salvation is blasphemy of the Spirit. It is the work of the Spirit to convince and convict through the preaching of the Gospel.
Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
The work of the Spirit is mighty....full of power.
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
The Spirit is who puts the POWER in the word ...the Gospel of salvation.
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Sovereignty speaks to the authority and rule of God over all His creation.
Do you deny Jesus Christ is King of Kings, and His royal will be done?
Epoisses
New member
Do you deny that Satan fell from heaven and Adam fell from innocence?
Brother Ducky
New member
You obviously have me confused with someone else.
Insofar as I can remember, I have never referred to any as goat or reprobate or any such terms. I have affirmed at least some with whom I disagree as brothers in sisters in Christ. We can hold different views and disagree without being disagreeable.
And I believe that you have declared all 5 pointers as damned. Seems inappropriate for you to criticize in this area.
How ignorant you are. Sovereign also means King and just as a King has a kingdom so a Sovereign has a sovereigndom. Your eyes have most assuredly been blinded to the truth. King (Sovereign) appears 2259 times and related words in their hundreds.
Everything you post is the invention of your wicked and unrepentant heart*.
heart* not the blood pump
PS The word Adonay means Sovereign and has been mistranslated as Lord.
God's sovereignty does not override his holy, just, merciful, righteous character.
All that God does in his relationship with fallen man is just, merciful and righteous. No one will be able to accuse God of not being fair in the judgment. God has done all that he can do for the salvation of fallen man, but he not going to impose anything on anyone. If he did that he would not be just.
Brother Ducky
New member
The above passage in John seems to consider unbelief as sin. If all sin is atoned for, the sin of unbelief has been atoned for.
Nope
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Yes, and if all sin is atoned, then all men are reconciled to God.
Such is Universalistic (false) teaching.
But false teachers say that man has the freedom of will to reject this universal atonement and total reconciliation and therefore remain unsaved.
The basis for such is not really a free will choice, but unbelief. Reprobates simply do not believe in God, or His Word, or the Truth. They do not "choose" to be reconciled with God, because they hate Him and refuse to believe in Jesus Christ as Saviour.
So why is this unbelief still existent, if supposedly all sins of all men, was propitiated?
I call such thinking, illogical . . .
Nang
TOL Subscriber
"Nope," what?
Nope, unbelief is not a sin?
Nope, all sin has not been atoned for?
Nope, the sin of unbelief, has not been paid for?
Nope, unbelief is not a sin, but not choosing to believe God will condemn?
:dead:
Are unbelievers saved? :duh:
Nang
TOL Subscriber
No, because they were never reconciled to God. Jesus Christ did not atone for their sin of unbelief. He did not die for them, but left them to destruction.
So no one can dogmatically claim unlimited (universal) atonement, nor universal reconciliation.
God saves 100% of the souls He justified by His blood.
Not one is left in unbelief, unreconciled, nor with the ability to reject His grace.
The saving grace of God is irresistible and cannot be rejected or refused or lost. Such is evidence of His Sovereignty and Eternal Authority.
And it is also evidence, reprobates are never offered His Grace, because Jesus never atoned for their sins and they were not reconciled to God at the cross.
What are you twittering on about now. This has nothing to do with what I was addressing.
Sure it does. Calvinist seem to believe that God's sovereignty overrides God's holy, just, merciful, righteous character.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
The attributes of God are all equal, and in perfect harmony.
IOW's the authority of God comes from who God is, and God is all virtues attributed to His Being. Nothing in God "overrides" another. For God is simplicity and not a variety or number of parts.
God is Just because God is Love. God is Love because God is Just. God rules over all in justice and love, and determines all things out of love and justice.
Etc., etc. . .