The Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ

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Pomegranate

New member
Dear Friends,

Hello. I hope you're well today in Christ Jesus. Like in Judaism, I thank the Lord everyday for the body but what happened to the Lord's body after the crucifixion 3 days later? I believe in a Spiritual Resurrection and Mystical Resurrection but not quite a Physical or Literal one. Some theologians say you can experience the Risen Lord through personal experience and I agree with that point.

What I mean by physical or literal is a transformation of the corpse of Jesus into a different kind of body but perhaps the same one as he had before he died. Jesus said that he would raise this temple in 3 days. Some Christians insist that Jesus had to rise physically because the lord died for our sins so we Can resurrect too. But Paul was a Pharisee and he believed in a general Resurrection before he had a experience of Jesus Christ. So the physical resurrection of the Lord isn't dependent on a afterlife.

But the resurrection or the appearance of Jesus Christ doesn't always include a bodily form. Paul had a vision of the Lord but he saw a bright light only and a voice appeared as Jesus. So Paul saw a bright light but not a bodily form. And Paul says in 1 Cor-9:1, I have seen the Lord. What do i mean by a spiritual Resurrection? I mean Revelation, or personal experience like in prayer for example, and visions.

I place so much weight on personal experience because I believe it correlates directly to the resurrection the original disciples experienced of the Lord Jesus Christ. What they experienced was so strong that it made them declare first "Jesus is Lord" because they experienced Jesus as a divine reality. Not just of the past but in the present moment. Visions can feel like your being being touched, or they can be seen; like for example, a relative who passed away.

"Eight days later, His disciples were once again inside with the doors locked, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” 27Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!”…

I think this is good evidence for a physical resurrection, I'm sorry if I didn't give enough fair points to both sides of the argument. I believe both sides can be argued. I think it's important to note that Jesus can appear with his wounds after the crucifixion because that's how he was remembered to die. The Lord could have appeared this way in a vision.

A person can talk to you in a vision and tell you things. Because the disciples had physical contact with the real Jesus in his real body when he was living on earth, I believe their memories of him telling them things was re introduced in their visions and experience: so I can imagine they're memory off shooting and repeating the phrase " I love you Peter" for example in the vision. So the Lord would have said that twice to Peter. Once in real life and once in the vision.

Thank you for reading, God Bless You Always!
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
To bad that you don't believe in a physical resurrection because that means that you are still in your sins.
 
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Pomegranate

New member
One thing I'm hoping changes in the next 2o years is that whether you take it literally or as metaphor like I do, we will still consider each other Christian.
 
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Pomegranate

New member
[MENTION=9508]Robert Pate[/MENTION] Hi Robert, the reason I can't believe in a physical resurrection is probably because we live after the enlightenment in a post scientific world. Today many Christians who are liberal find it hard to believe in miracles, for example, in the sense that they happened only in the first century but not today.

The second point is about hermeneutics and Christians down the ages have always interpreted the Bible in many different ways like the age of the earth controversy.
 
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popsthebuilder

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To shine a light in the vanity or literal resurrection of man or eternal life as a man is good. People need to here about it. I don't know if I would have chosen the same course to get to that, but I'm not you. Perhaps you could continue the emphasis on experience without accusing scripture of deception. Unlike the creation account, the resurrection clearly states the literal physical quality of the resurrection along with the obvious spiritual connotations. It shouldn't be a matter of one or the other. It should be taken openly.

So you had a personal experience of revelation from GOD? And in this revelation did the word Jesus come in?


Feel free to pm me about your experience if you would rather not talk about it here.

It isn't the physical resurrection that we should understand so much as the spiritual death and rebirth.

Welcome by the way,

And yes, a day when all can understand that different limbs make up the body, by the will of GOD; that will be a joyous day for all.

Peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk
 
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Pomegranate

New member
popsthebuilder said:
To shine a light in the vanity or literal resurrection of man or eternal life as a man is good. People need to here about it. I don't know if I would have chosen the same course to get to that, but I'm not you. Perhaps you could continue the emphasis on experience without accusing scripture of deception. Unlike the creation account, the resurrection clearly states the literal physical quality of the resurrection along with the obvious spiritual connotations. It shouldn't be a matter of one or the other. It should be taken openly.




So you had a personal experience of revelation from GOD? And in this revelation did the word Jesus come in?


Feel free to pm me about your experience if you would rather not talk about it here.

It isn't the physical resurrection that we should understand so much as the spiritual death and rebirth.

Welcome by the way,

And yes, a day when all can understand that different limbs make up the body, by the will of GOD; that will be a joyous day for all.

Peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk
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Hi Builder, how are you? I do apologize for speaking about something so sacred that it may cause someone resentment. Or offense. I'm not saying you personally it could be anyone.

I just can't believe in a physical resurrection in today's age. I don't think it has anything to do with sin as Robert implied. But it has to do with living in a post scientific world and my presuppositions.

Take for example Caesar, who was also called Son of God and Redeemer. Caesar's body is on a silver dinarius and he is burning on a funeral pyre. His body ascends to heaven. The Romans had evidence it was on a coin. I think it's a matter of Faith on who you follow.
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
Pomegranate said:
[MENTION=9508]Robert Pate[/MENTION] Hi Robert, the reason I can't believe in a physical resurrection is probably because we live after the enlightenment in a post scientific world. Today many Christians who are liberal find it hard to believe in miracles, for example, in the sense that they happened only in the first century but not today.

The second point is about hermeneutics and Christians down the ages have always interpreted the Bible in many different ways like the age of the earth controversy.
Click to expand...

Mary didn't know the physical Jesus, she thought he was a gardener, she knew the voice. The men on the road to emmaus didn't know the physical Jesus either, they walked with him talking about him, although they didn't know him only by the voice when he broke the bread, in other words when he spoke the word of God, after the resurrection the disciples in the boat didn't know the physical Jesus on the shore, they knew him when he said cast you net in now and draw a multitude of fishes, and Peter then said it's the lord, he knew Jesus by the voice. They didn't know the physical Jesus why do you think? I believe similar to you, Jesus rose from the dead, there is a deeper meaning here, do you understand can you see? Look at my last post.

I wouldn't normally say things like this here, because people only see the natural and they rip the spiritual to bits, but I'm hoping you can see because you seem so close, can you see? Go to God and ask him if you can't!
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
It isn't the physical resurrection that we should understand so much as the spiritual death and rebirth.

Welcome by the way,

And yes, a day when all can understand that different limbs make up the body, by the will of GOD; that will be a joyous day for all.

Peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hi pops, I enjoyed reading your post, but I loved this bit and that's why I quoted this part, i believe in this too. Although I don't believe that it's the natural death and resurrection of Jesus that saves us but the but the spiritual one, and we are saved first from our past sins when we hear the word of God and believe in Jesus through faith by the grace of God, then from daily sinning by his continued grace by Christ raised within by the spirit helping us to overcome sin. And we are all different but of one body. And I know that many things you speak, is of the truth, thanks for sharing :)
 
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Pomegranate

New member
popsthebuilder said:
To shine a light in the vanity or literal resurrection of man or eternal life as a man is good. People need to here about it. I don't know if I would have chosen the same course to get to that, but I'm not you. Perhaps you could continue the emphasis on experience without accusing scripture of deception. Unlike the creation account, the resurrection clearly states the literal physical quality of the resurrection along with the obvious spiritual connotations. It shouldn't be a matter of one or the other. It should be taken openly.



So you had a personal experience of revelation from GOD? And in this revelation did the word Jesus come in?


Feel free to pm me about your experience if you would rather not talk about it here.

It isn't the physical resurrection that we should understand so much as the spiritual death and rebirth.

Welcome by the way,

And yes, a day when all can understand that different limbs make up the body, by the will of GOD; that will be a joyous day for all.

Peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thank you Pop, welcome to you too. I did experience Jesus Christ in my life and what a transformation. I never experienced anything like it. He's so sweet like Pomegranate. And i knew spiritually he was present in the world (resurrection) and divine (Lord). He transformed my heart of stone into a heart of flesh.

There is one reason that you might be interested in it; that neuroscience is engrossed in. That various mystics try to explain but fail. And the general public are so confused that they mistake it for a faith, a dogmatic principle, or an unreasonable assumption. In fact they don't understand it in so much as even Daniel Dennet the philosopher, thought of it as something without evidence.

Here's the catch. You have to be born with it or try to develop it through meditation or prayer. After you experience it, that divine reality is what mystics call God. So it's more of a attitude you develop or a temperment. William James, the great psychologist talks about it in his book: The Varieties of Religious Experience. In it he describes ineffability, something that defies expression or explanation of the contents. Undefinable. A subjective experience but based on evidential insight. The next reason is a ideational quality or conceptive. It's a feeling but it's so much more beyond. It turns the experience into a state of knowledge, a kind of comprehension. It does this because your mystical experience is receiving revelation, presage, but whats strange is this experience has a hold of you it has authority. Power and control. But mystical states have impermanence. They don't last long, this is why i believe the Lord Jesus Christ appears to the disciples but the next instant he disappears!

I'm not saying you have to be a mystic to be a christian or experience God in your life. The Lord shows up to anyone and anything he wills: it's like the air you breathe it's offered freely.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
Pomegranate,

Thanks for responding.

I asked about Jesus specifically, and you say within the actual experience you had, that Jesus Christ, by name, made himself known? This still interests me and would like the details of your experience if it isn't too personal. If it is too personal then I would understand as my own experience is too very personal. I agree about the sweetness, but don't know if I would liken it to the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Your catch seems a little off to be honest; I personally needed nothing but to have fallen very far by my own hand, and realizing my own incapacity to dig my way out of the grave I had lain myself in. This brought about a sincere plea to, and hope in a thing that at that time I hadn't believed in. Basically it seems to me that I needed to understand my own depraved condition and have hope, but perhaps not even these were needed. Regardless; to say GOD is simply revelation, and that is the limit of GOD, is a grand misconception. Perhaps you didn't mean it as I took it but revelation is but a product of GOD, and in no way the utter fullness of such.

I agree with the experience being most of the things you stated other than the limit you put on the resurrection. I will stop speculating based on a partial understanding of your own experience now, but do hope that you can explain more.

I'm just having trouble understanding why your own experience limits the capacity of the Christ to have been physically and spiritually resurrected.

Thank you in advance.

Peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk
 
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Pomegranate

New member
popsthebuilder said:
Pomegranate,

Thanks for responding.

I asked about Jesus specifically, and you say within the actual experience you had, that Jesus Christ, by name, made himself known? This still interests me and would like the details of your experience if it isn't too personal. If it is too personal then I would understand as my own experience is too very personal. I agree about the sweetness, but don't know if I would liken it to the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Your catch seems a little off to be honest; I personally needed nothing but to have fallen very far by my own hand, and realizing my own incapacity to dig my way out of the grave I had lain myself in. This brought about a sincere plea to, and hope in a thing that at that time I hadn't believed in. Basically it seems to me that I needed to understand my own depraved condition and have hope, but perhaps not even these were needed. Regardless; to say GOD is simply revelation, and that is the limit of GOD, is a grand misconception. Perhaps you didn't mean it as I took it but revelation is but a product of GOD, and in no way the utter fullness of such.

I agree with the experience being most of the things you stated other than the limit you put on the resurrection. I will stop speculating based on a partial understanding of your own experience now, but do hope that you can explain more.

I'm just having trouble understanding why your own experience limits the capacity of the Christ to have been physically and spiritually resurrected.

Thank you in advance.

Peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I practice Theistic Mysticism, I see and imagine Jesus as imagery and he is incarnate in my mind and experience. You might see this as communication not meant to be literary taken or a stylistic device. The experience is so strong that one walks away taking it literally and not for granted.(I take it literally) Not unless of course you are aware that's it's not literal. (Some people don't know the difference or make a distinction.)

In Theistic mysticism God is not creation, he is the opposite. He is not created , this is why Christians believe there is no infinite regress, ergo; who created God.
This is why experience is so important it has the power to convert. And i don't mean convert your religion, I mean just change your mind about experience and what you used to think it was is now radically different. There's different kinds of mysticism and you can be creative and see which one works for you.

Because i imagine Jesus, I use the word optics for this kind of experience. Something that is perceptible by the sense of sight or perceptible by the mind. The mind is very complicated and so is consciousness, Don't ever let anyone define your experience of the world at least that's what i say. When i was younger I would imagine Jesus because Iv'e seen pictures of him in art and the Renaissance. But i now realize its my mind trying to picture him. So my mind has convinced itself that whatever I imagine is not the real physical phenotype of Jesus. That's not important to me in any case but what is, is this.

In Christianity since Jesus is God we have to understand what that means. " I and the Father are one" as we all have heard in John's Gospel. What does this mean based off experience alone? In Christian mysticism, It's not that Jesus is above everyone else but were on a equal playing field with God. All Children of God, including Jesus. So the destination is to become Like Christ, which is called the transforming union. We can all become sons of God, John 1:12.

So through experience you can grow and become close to God. And John's main message of who God is , is that God is love. As said in the gospel, and the only way to know that is to experience God. Now the trick is you don't have to define it as God. You can just call it Love except for the fact when you experience something like this you will realize it is strong in nature so divine in theological language. To me it's most definitely God. And the Christian God too.

I believe in a Spiritual Resurrection I'm absolutely convinced of that. As for a physical Literal Resurrection, I don't believe it because I don't believe the original disciples believed in a Literal Resurrection. What they experienced was unexaggerated, concise, extraordinary. The resurrection was corporal, bodily, but not physical or protoplasmic. If you asked the disciples "Was the resurrection literal by today's standards". They would say (i think) "Yes Really". But you know what i mean, that is, They experienced something beyond ordinary cognizance.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Pomegranate, are there two types of bodies? Is there a material body and a non-material body?

What do you believe?
 
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Pomegranate

New member
marhig said:
Mary didn't know the physical Jesus, she thought he was a gardener, she knew the voice. The men on the road to emmaus didn't know the physical Jesus either, they walked with him talking about him, although they didn't know him only by the voice when he broke the bread, in other words when he spoke the word of God, after the resurrection the disciples in the boat didn't know the physical Jesus on the shore, they knew him when he said cast you net in now and draw a multitude of fishes, and Peter then said it's the lord, he knew Jesus by the voice. They didn't know the physical Jesus why do you think? I believe similar to you, Jesus rose from the dead, there is a deeper meaning here, do you understand can you see? Look at my last post.

I wouldn't normally say things like this here, because people only see the natural and they rip the spiritual to bits, but I'm hoping you can see because you seem so close, can you see? Go to God and ask him if you can't!
Click to expand...

Thank you for your post. Not until Mary hears her name does she recognize it's Jesus. These are visions are religious experiences. In Luke he is thought to be a stranger even by those who knew him, but only when they are put into a different state do they recognize him.

We have now amongst us a sister whose lot it has been to be favored with sundry gifts of revelation, which she experiences in the Spirit by ecstatic vision amidst the sacred rites of the Lord's day in the church: she converses with angels, and sometimes even with the Lord; she both sees and hears mysterious communications; some men's hearts she understands, and to them who are in need she distributes remedies. Whether it be in the reading of Scriptures, or in the chanting of psalms, or in the preaching of sermons, or in the offering up of prayers, in all these religious services matter and opportunity are afforded to her of seeing visions.

It may possibly have happened to us, whilst this sister of ours was rapt in the Spirit, that we had discoursed in some ineffable way about the soul. After the people are dismissed at the conclusion of the sacred services, she is in the regular habit of reporting to us whatever things she may have seen in a vision (for all her communications are examined with the most scrupulous care, in order that their truth may be probed). "Amongst other things," says she, "there has been shown to me a soul in bodily shape, and a spirit has been in the habit of appearing to me; not, however, a void and empty illusion, but such as would offer itself to be even grasped by the hand, soft and transparent and of an ethereal color, and in form resembling that of a human being in every respect." This was her vision, and for her witness there was God; and the apostle most assuredly foretold that there were to be "spiritual gifts" in the church. Now, can you refuse to believe this, even if indubitable evidence on every point is forthcoming for your conviction?

(Tertullian, Treatise On the Soul 9)
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Robert Pate said:
To bad that you don't believe in a physical resurrection because that means that you are still in your sins.
Click to expand...
Yes, one must believe that Christ rose from the dead (it's part of the good news of our salvation 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) or they will not be saved, but you are misquoting Paul. What Paul actually stated is, "if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins" (1 Corinthians 15:17 KJV). The good news for all, is that He was raised from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:4 KJV) for our justification (Romans 4:25 KJV) proving the sin debt is paid in full!
 
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Lilstu

New member
Ezekiel 37 describes a physical resurrection IMO Anyone disagree?

Was Jesus' resurrection a different kind of resurrection? [Different from Ezek 37]
 
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