The Religion of Blinding Bluster

[Hoping]

No one is "pro abortion". And no one thinks the fetus is lifeless. If it were, an abortion would not be needed. The problem will have resolved itself.

I don't agree.

Would you be so concerned about not anesthetizing a human being for execution? Just curious.

I am not for the death penalty, as God said..."Thou shalt not kill."

 

[Right Divider]

Babies die all the time due to special circumstances.

Murdering babies is not the same thing.

So do adults.

Irrelevant.

We help when we can, but sometimes we can't, and sometimes we just don't want to bother. Because it "costs too much". Or because we didn't like the victim, anyway. Or because whatever.

There is no justification for MURDER.... no matter how hard you try.

Why are you pretending that when it comes to pregnancy we should be living in a perfect world, where we can demand perfection, regardless of the cost to the mother?

There is no justification for MURDER.... no matter how hard you try.

We don't live in a perfect world, and we have no right to expect or demand perfection from anyone. We're all just doing the best we can.

The "best we can" does NOT include MURDERING innocent babies.

Everyone dies. Some sooner than others. That's just the way it is in this imperfect world.

So MURDER is cool, since people die anyway?

You are evil to the core. I'm certain that it's not the "spirit of God in you" that leads you, but another spirit.

 

[ok doser]

You don't walk on water.

Clearly you've never been ice fishing

You didn't raise yourself from the dead.

Clearly you've never dragged yourself out of bed Monday morning to go to work after a long weekend of boozy ice fishing

 

[ok doser]

How much respect do you have for women facing the ordeal of an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy?

About the same amount of respect that I have for women who decide that they don't want their children and murder them as infants or toddlers

Or for all of your fellow citizens that believe an individual's right to choose what happens within their own bodies is more important than your desire to dictate morality to everyone?

The problem with your construction is that you consider the woman's body and not the other human life that she has created inside her.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Only if all they believed in was that he rose from the dead.

If the primary tenet of a religion is false, would it not also be likely that the rest of what the people who hold to that religion believe also be false?

On the other hand, if the primary tenet of a belief is true, then it's highly likely that the rest of what is believed along with that tenet is also true.

No?

Which wasn't much of a "faith" to begin with. By the way, Jesus rose from the dead in the story, not "Christ". Christ refers to a state of being, not to the person that achieved it.

"Christ" is the Greek word for the Hebrew term "Messiah."

Jesus IS the Messiah of Israel.

Thus, referring to Him as either is fine, because it's talking about the same Person.

That's a very childish requirement you have, there.

It shows that Christianity IS falsifiable.

Unlike your beliefs, which you seem to want to be unfalsifiable, which isn't a good thing.

And since God transcends all men's understanding, and all of man's religions, it would be foolish to presume any one of them is "true". That's not even what religions are about.

No, that's not what YOUR religion is about. But that's what Christianity is about.

That's a very good argument, but it's only an argument based on our ignorance. Which does not give it the weight necessary for you to impose your conclusions on everyone else. Also, we have the benefit of anesthesia, now, so the issue of suffering is not pertinent.

So then, should Muslims anesthetize before beheading their victims?

So you are willing to approve of the ending of a human life as long as there is no suffering? Why not propose anesthetizing and euthanizing the mentally handicapped or the elderly or other human lives that you might find inconvenient?

Anything to assuage his guilt.

How much respect do you have for women facing the ordeal of an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy?

Enough respect to beg her to not murder her child for the sake of convenience, to love her child, to protect her child in what should be the safest place on earth for her child.

Or for all of your fellow citizens that believe an individual's right to choose what happens within their own bodies is more important than your desire to dictate morality to everyone?

The body in a pregnant woman's body is not her body.

And 50% of the time, it's the body of a male, not a female.

The problem with not caring about what anyone else thinks and feels is that they aren't going to care what you think or feel, either. And why should they?

Mirror, look in it.

Then all that's left is dictatorial oppression. You may say that's fine as long as you're the dictator. But you'd better watch your back, because no one else is going to put up with it willingly, or forever.

God certainly isn't going to put up with your advocating of the murder of innocent children in the womb forever.

No one is "pro abortion".

Liar. You are.

And no one thinks the fetus is lifeless. If it were, an abortion would not be needed. The problem will have resolved itself.

Is the fetus human?

Would you be so concerned about not anesthetizing a human being for execution? Just curious.

See the image above.

No, I was asking about girls raped by their fathers and brothers, pastors and priests, that are far too young to deal with the rigors of a pregnancy. Especially one that was caused by violent trauma.

You want to execute the baby and love the rapist.

We want to love the baby, and execute the rapist.

The mother also has her own body,

Again, the body in her body is not her body.

and the right to remove any unwanted growths within it.

The baby is not a "growth."

It is a human being, and not a part of her body. It is a genetically unique entity.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Babies die all the time due to special circumstances.

Allowing a dying person to die is completely different than intentionally killing a person who isn't dying.

So do adults. We help when we can, but sometimes we can't, and sometimes we just don't want to bother. Because it "costs too much". Or because we didn't like the victim, anyway. Or because whatever.

Perhaps, "it's an inconvenience" also fits in that list, no?

Why are you pretending that when it comes to pregnancy we should be living in a perfect world, where we can demand perfection, regardless of the cost to the mother?

All we're asking is that she love the baby enough to let him or her live.

You want to just kill the baby.

Who's more evil, us, or you?

We don't live in a perfect world, and we have no right to expect or demand perfection from anyone. We're all just doing the best we can.

"The best we can" is not killing babies in the womb.

Everyone dies. Some sooner than others. That's just the way it is in this imperfect world.

No one said otherwise.

 

[ok doser]

The mother ... has ... the right to remove any unwanted growths within (her body)

This is the same kind of dehumanizing language that was so successfully used by the National Socialist German Workers' Party in their attempt to convince the German population that the Jew was a subhuman.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I am not for the death penalty, as God said..."Thou shalt not kill.

That's a mistranslation, and a common one.

God said do not murder, not "kill."

Otherwise He would have contradicted Himself when He commanded that murderers be put to death.

 

[JudgeRightly]

PureX, I noticed you didn't answer my challenge.

You said:

Welcome to the human condition, where you have to determine for yourself what you hope to be the truth, and then live by that truth, in faith, to find out. Because you don't get to know in advance.

To which I asked a question which directly challenges that claim:

Is it absolutely wrong for a man to rape a woman?

So, PureX, is it absolutely wrong for a man to rape a woman?

Is the answer to that question part of "the human condition, where you have to determine for yourself what you hope to be the truth, and then live by that truth, in faith, to find out"?

If so, by what reasoning did you arrive at that answer?

Or, will you again refuse to answer it, because the answer to that question utterly destroys the very foundations of what you believe? (If so, then you need to seriously reconsider your beliefs, especially if they can be undermined by a question as simple as that.)

 

[ok doser]

So, PureX, is it absolutely wrong for a man to rape a woman?

This opens a whole 'nother can of worms but a couple years ago when I had a dozen threads about rape going on I came to the realization that, as contentious as this is, the answer to your question is no, not when you are executing the Lord's vengeance

Isaiah 13
King James Version
​

13 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.
15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

 

[JudgeRightly]

This opens a whole 'nother can of worms but a couple years ago when I had a dozen threads about rape going on I came to the realization that, as contentious as this is, the answer to your question is no, not when you are executing the Lord's vengeance

. . .

Isaiah 13
King James Version
​

16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

That isn't saying TO do so. It's saying that that's what would/will happen to Babylon.

The answer to my question is yes, it is absolutely wrong for a man to rape a woman.

That it will happen to the women of Babylon as punishment from God does not make it ok to do so.

To make this easier to understand, I recommend listening to this show on Kgov.com:

Why Was Canaan Cursed? | KGOV.com

kgov.com

Or reading this article:

Why Was Canaan Cursed? | KGOV.com

kgov.com

Canaan was cursed in the same way that what is described in Isaiah 13:16 is punishment from God.

 

[Yorzhik]

Babies die all the time due to special circumstances. So do adults. We help when we can, but sometimes we can't, and sometimes we just don't want to bother. Because it "costs too much". Or because we didn't like the victim, anyway. Or because whatever. Why are you pretending that when it comes to pregnancy we should be living in a perfect world, where we can demand perfection, regardless of the cost to the mother? We don't live in a perfect world, and we have no right to expect or demand perfection from anyone. We're all just doing the best we can.

Everyone dies. Some sooner than others. That's just the way it is in this imperfect world.

You do realize your argument, in the context of this conversation, supports murder of anyone at any time?

 

[Yorzhik]

You're really missing the point, here.

I didn't miss the point. Your point is that some religious people have toxic ideas because they value righteousness over love. That's a mean accusation against those people, and you are either right or wrong about it. If you are sure you are right then you violate your own standard of righteousness, and if you aren't sure you are right then you shouldn't be accusing people like you are.

 

[marke]

Speak for yourself.
I have implemented them, to the glory of God.

I can't agree.
Jesus didn't suffer and die in vain.

I guess that depends on your definition of "salvation".

Bible-believing Christians can rely on the Scriptures for correction, instruction, and comfort. If you are sick - pray. If you confess your sins - they shall be forgiven, and so forth.

James 5:14-16
King James Version

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.​

 

[marke]

They were not American leaders.
They were rebels to America.

George Washington was not a rebel against America. He is honored by most Americans as the father of our nation. The disgruntled, discontented, and ungrateful few, however, want his name removed from public buildings. Nonsense. Let them take names off their own buildings and leave the rest of the country alone to honor their dead.

 

[marke]

How much respect do you have for women facing the ordeal of an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy? Or for all of your fellow citizens that believe an individual's right to choose what happens within their own bodies is more important than your desire to dictate morality to everyone?

The problem with not caring about what anyone else thinks and feels is that they aren't going to care what you think or feel, either. And why should they? Then all that's left is dictatorial oppression. You may say that's fine as long as you're the dictator. But you'd better watch your back, because no one else is going to put up with it willingly, or forever.

God has made it plain that sex outside of marriage is wrong. God has also made it plain that He gives life and little babies belong to Him. If God allows a female subject of His to get pregnant then she would be wise to take care of that life He has given her and not rebel against Him.

 

[marke]

I don't agree.

I am not for the death penalty, as God said..."Thou shalt not kill."

God also said this:
Exodus 22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Be wise. Study the Bible more but ask God for wisdom before you begin.

 

[Hoping]

That's a mistranslation, and a common one.

So you defend unborn babies to assuage your own interests?

God said do not murder, not "kill."

All killings are murder.

Otherwise He would have contradicted Himself when He commanded that murderers be put to death.

Not at all.
The deaths of the haters of God were brought upon themselves.
Kinda like "suicide by cop".

 

[Hoping]

Bible-believing Christians can rely on the Scriptures for correction, instruction, and comfort. If you are sick - pray. If you confess your sins - they shall be forgiven, and so forth.

James 5:14-16​

King James Version​

​

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:​

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.​

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.​

So?

 

[Hoping]

George Washington was not a rebel against America. He is honored by most Americans as the father of our nation. The disgruntled, discontented, and ungrateful few, however, want his name removed from public buildings. Nonsense. Let them take names off their own buildings and leave the rest of the country alone to honor their dead.

I have yet to see anyone petitioning to remove a statue of Washington.
Only of the confederate defenders of slavery.