ECT The real crimes of John Nelson Darby

[Totton Linnet]

No one knows the day or hour (Mt 24:36) but we can have an idea (1 Thess 5:5). :juggle:

"Mt 24:32 parable from the fig tree. When the fig branch “puts forth leaves,” only a short time remains until summer. Likewise, when the final labor pains begin (see note on v. 14), Christ’s return “is near; it is at the doors!” (v. 33)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1440). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

It is so interesting to me that you say labour pains, Jeremiah asks who travails in childbirth? the man or the woman? Paul said that the day will come suddenly as travail upon a woman....Israel is God's firstborn son, the church Christ's bride.

Paul speaks about the creation being in travail with us

You see the church is to give birth to the kingdom, When Christ first came the bible says that Herod was tribulated and all Jerusalem with him...giving birth to something is a new beginning, a new age. It is not the end of the world but the end of the age.

What is coming is the kingdom of God on earth the capital of which will be Jerusalem.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You won't find any reference in scripture to a rapture of the church occurring before the tribulation. It is the persecution of the people of God that causes the tribulation. Like the Hebrews in Goshen who were oppressed, God responded with great tribulation.

The tribulation was the Egyptian oppression of the church, the plagues which was only upon Egypt [God making distinction betwixt Egypt and Israel] is God's wrath. God can never pour out His unmitigated fury upon His people. never, never.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Hi and DISPENSATION in the Greek OIKONOMIA and is OIKOS which means HOUSE and NOMOS means LAW , so nthen it means HOUSE LAW , so deal with it !!

dan p

So Paul was granted a house law to teach the Gentiles, sounds like training up a puppydog

 

[andyc]

So Paul was granted a house law to teach the Gentiles, sounds like training up a puppydog

Dan has his preconceived ideas, then he looks at a phrase in scripture, then looks at the tense of a Greek verb, then :idea:

 

[serpentdove]

You won't find any reference in scripture to a rapture of the church occurring before the tribulation.

Mt 24:31, 1 Thess 1:10, 5:9, Re 3:10

Then Joseph could not restrain himself before all those who stood by him, and he cried out, “Make everyone go out from me!” [His wife gone] So no one stood with him while Joseph made himself known to his brothers." Ge 45:1–2

 

[serpentdove]

[1 Thess 5:3] Paul said that the day will come suddenly as travail upon a woman.

Sounds like Planet X (not exactly a planet). :Shimei:

..Israel is God's firstborn son, the church Christ's bride.

Israel is the bride of the Father. The church, the bride of the Son.

 

[Interplanner]

Mt 24:31, 1 Thess 1:10, 5:9, Re 3:10

Then Joseph could not restrain himself before all those who stood by him, and he cried out, “Make everyone go out from me!” [His wife gone] So no one stood with him while Joseph made himself known to his brothers." Ge 45:1–2

Mt 24:31 is not rapture. The people who are taken are taken away to judgement. They stayed in Israel and perished with it.

The Thess references are stronger, but that was before the DofJ. There is nothing very clear about it, certainly not clear enough to generate 100s of 'best-sellers' with ALL the answers.

Never found a doctrine on something in the Rev that is not totally clear in ordinary language elsewhere.

The Genesis reference is nothing.

 

[serpentdove]

[Mt 24:31]

"Mt 24:31 from one end of heaven to the other. All the “elect” from heaven and earth are gathered and assembled before Christ. This is the culmination of world history, ushering in the millennial reign of Christ (cf. Rev. 20:4)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1440). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

 

[HisServant]

Do try to think

Abel brought his lamb and God administered or dispensed or afforded to Abel salvation...that is how the thing works

hmmm... Nope. Your non-biblical external satanic framework through which you interpret scripture is showing.

The blood of animals NEVER afforded anyone salvation. The blood of animals it imperfect and POINTED TO the eventual final sacrifice that God promised to Adam and Eve at the fall and was fulfilled in the death of Jesus.

Salvation has ALWAYS been the same.. it has been through FAITH. It was Abraham's FAITH that God chose to account to him as righteousness. Even when Abraham was going to sacrifice his son, it was not his obedience or the sacrifice he was going to make that was counted as righteousness, it was his FAITH that he was doing God's will.

What you view as dispensations are nothing more than God favoring a people with certain tasks to REMIND us that he exists and is still in control and his plan of salvation that he designed from the creation of the world is still being accomplished.

As time goes on, man always gets haughty and forgets his creator and God in his wisdom raises up individuals/nations to perform certain tasks as a witness to his existence.

But the plans have never changed... the house rules have always been constant and have never changed.

 

[Totton Linnet]

There is no mention in Thess or 1. Cor.15, Paul dealing with the gathering, of the general resurrection and judgement...there are no loud bangs or melting away of the elements.

When Christ comes He comes to reign, to put all His enemies under His feet, He comes to restore all things.
Reformists amillennials have got it wrong.

 

[Totton Linnet]

hmmm... Nope. Your non-biblical external satanic framework through which you interpret scripture is showing.

The blood of animals NEVER afforded anyone salvation. The blood of animals it imperfect and POINTED TO the eventual final sacrifice that God promised to Adam and Eve at the fall and was fulfilled in the death of Jesus.

Salvation has ALWAYS been the same.. it has been through FAITH. It was Abraham's FAITH that God chose to account to him as righteousness. Even when Abraham was going to sacrifice his son, it was not his obedience or the sacrifice he was going to make that was counted as righteousness, it was his FAITH that he was doing God's will.

What you view as dispensations are nothing more than God favoring a people with certain tasks to REMIND us that he exists and is still in control and his plan of salvation that he designed from the creation of the world is still being accomplished.

As time goes on, man always gets haughty and forgets his creator and God in his wisdom raises up individuals/nations to perform certain tasks as a witness to his existence.

But the plans have never changed... the house rules have always been constant and have never changed.

's' a bunch of nonsense

 

[tetelestai]

So what IS Darby's real crime?

They are numerous.

The secret rapture being #1

Darby's whole theory of God putting Israel on hold, and then inserting a parenthetical dispensation (time period) of "church age" believers, and then rapturing away the people of the parenthetical dispensation, and then God picking back up with Israel again is nuts.

It's all a load of rubbish, and cannot stand the test of scripture.

Because of Darby, we have people like Little Johnny W today, not to mention the mess in the Middle East.

 

[Ktoyou]

The lamb had nothing to do with an economy of salvation.

let's hope not. I just ate it!

 

[steko]

They are numerous.

The secret rapture being #1

Darby's whole theory of God putting Israel on hold, and then inserting a parenthetical dispensation (time period) of "church age" believers, and then rapturing away the people of the parenthetical dispensation, and then God picking back up with Israel again is nuts.

It's all a load of rubbish, and cannot stand the test of scripture.

Because of Darby, we have people like Little Johnny W today, not to mention the mess in the Middle East.

You blame the mess in the Middle East on Darby?

Now....that is absurd!

 

[Totton Linnet]

They are numerous.

The secret rapture being #1

Darby's whole theory of God putting Israel on hold, and then inserting a parenthetical dispensation (time period) of "church age" believers, and then rapturing away the people of the parenthetical dispensation, and then God picking back up with Israel again is nuts.

It's all a load of rubbish, and cannot stand the test of scripture.

Because of Darby, we have people like Little Johnny W today, not to mention the mess in the Middle East.

It does stand up to scripture. The latter days description of the prophets are diametrically opposite to the latter days description given by Christ in the little apocalypses.

Paul states that God's plan for the fullness of times is to UNITE all things in Christ, whether they be things on earth or things in heaven.

Inasmuch therefore that we do not see all things united now nor will according to Christ....there simply must be yet an age to come.

 

[tetelestai]

You blame the mess in the Middle East on Darby?

Yes.

Christian Zionism/Futurism is the reason the Middle East is a mess.

 

[steko]

Yes.

Christian Zionism/Futurism is the reason the Middle East is a mess.

Wow...you really are myopic.

Your assertion on this one thing makes any other truth-claims that you posit suspect.

 

[ClimateSanity]

They are numerous.

The secret rapture being #1

Darby's whole theory of God putting Israel on hold, and then inserting a parenthetical dispensation (time period) of "church age" believers, and then rapturing away the people of the parenthetical dispensation, and then God picking back up with Israel again is nuts.

It's all a load of rubbish, and cannot stand the test of scripture.

Because of Darby, we have people like Little Johnny W today, not to mention the mess in the Middle East.

These are crimes????

You sound insane.

 

[patrick jane]

The 08 market crash was all because of Darby too

 

[steko]

These are crimes????

You sound insane.

That's what obsession does to a fella'.