ECT The Other King: Act 17:7
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Interplanner
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RD wrote:
The CONTEXT of Romans 9-11 is ISRAEL. It is NOT gentiles.
Paul is explaining that the promises that God made with Israel only apply to BELIEVING ISRAEL.
Paul is EXCLUDING UNBELIEVING ISRAEL from the promises that God made to THEM!
I don't need to be told what the topic is, but thanks.
If God's promises apply only to believing Israel, what about 'all Israel will be saved'? Hmmm. But ch 9 tells us that there is an "us" to whom this all applies and it is both Jew and Gentile. 9:26.
You are not that far off, making the distinction you have made, but I bet you don't count any Gentiles in the seed of Abraham as you should, as ch 9 and Gal 3-4 do. You'll need to work on that.
The CONTEXT of Romans 9-11 is ISRAEL. It is NOT gentiles.
Paul is explaining that the promises that God made with Israel only apply to BELIEVING ISRAEL.
Paul is EXCLUDING UNBELIEVING ISRAEL from the promises that God made to THEM!
I don't need to be told what the topic is, but thanks.
If God's promises apply only to believing Israel, what about 'all Israel will be saved'? Hmmm. But ch 9 tells us that there is an "us" to whom this all applies and it is both Jew and Gentile. 9:26.
You are not that far off, making the distinction you have made, but I bet you don't count any Gentiles in the seed of Abraham as you should, as ch 9 and Gal 3-4 do. You'll need to work on that.
Interplanner
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RD wrote:
That's my point EXACTLY! The New Testament CANNOT even BEGIN until the DEATH of the TESTATOR. That does NOT happen until the VERY END of the "four gospels".
You haven't gained anything here. Many things were said by Christ in anticipation of the 'death of the testator.' You're just deviating to deviate.
That's my point EXACTLY! The New Testament CANNOT even BEGIN until the DEATH of the TESTATOR. That does NOT happen until the VERY END of the "four gospels".
You haven't gained anything here. Many things were said by Christ in anticipation of the 'death of the testator.' You're just deviating to deviate.
Interplanner
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The Revelation is "totally and completely Israelite" because it is about what would happen in the mid-1st century there. I was avoiding it because it is so symbolic, and starts over, and does not compute, and is not in normal language like those passages. It is not about a distant future, the 1st page says. It is not a good idea to base anything on the Rev that is not entirely clear elsewhere, and you are a scratch on Rom 9, so you'll really have to work on it.
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The reason the Isaiah passage is the source of the Rev 21 passage is because it is about the NHNE, not another episode in Judea.
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RD was seeking proof of the OT passages that say the land promises were fulfilled.
You really need to read your OT clearly. Joshua has several. 21:45.
Psalms have several. 48, 50, 68, 78.
The chronicler says I Chr 29:14+
Haggai refers to the post-exile fulfillment but laments that it was so diminished.
Calm down, do some homework with biblegateway.com, and you won't look so silly saying things like PROVE IT!!!!
You really need to read your OT clearly. Joshua has several. 21:45.
Psalms have several. 48, 50, 68, 78.
The chronicler says I Chr 29:14+
Haggai refers to the post-exile fulfillment but laments that it was so diminished.
Calm down, do some homework with biblegateway.com, and you won't look so silly saying things like PROVE IT!!!!
Interplanner
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On your bonus question, you must be referring to Paul who taught: Christ our Passover (lamb) is sacrificed for us, etc...
Yours is nothing more than the Augustinian rubbish of reasoning INTO a passage.
Romans 11:26's "all Israel" was not only already identified by Paul as all the BELIEVING remnant of Israel in Isaac, you incompetent, but "as it is written."
In other words, he is talking about what THEIR Prophets Prophesied about THEIR BELIEVING remnant.
Because, you books based fraud, what he has been CONTINUALLY asserting THROUGHOUT Romans 9 thru 11 is that the fact that with Paul's ministry among the Gentiles, it looked now not only like God had ONCE MORE delayed His PROPHESIED Wrath unto Israel AS A NATION and PRIOR TO His EQUALLY PROPHESIED Mercy unto THEM AS A NATION, but was THROUGH with His PROMISES UNTO Israel AS A NATIONZ, and was now out among INDIVIDUALS from ALL nations - INCLUDING INDIVIDUALS from Israel - it did NOT mean He would NOT make good on said PROPHESIED Wrath unto THEM as A NATION PRIOR TO said PROPHESIED Mercy unto THEM as A NATION.
Your OVER reliance on your ENDLESS books "ABOUT" with their ENDLESS reasoning INTO a thing HAS rendered YOU incompetent to your task.
SO MUCH SO that there is NO reasoning with YOU on these things THROUGH the Scripture.
You have made yourself an absolute fool by your own hand.
Worse, an arrogant one. Thus, your endless "I don't need your help, thank you."
You are in fact, beyond help.
Take this as the offense of the Truth it is meant to be; you incompetent buffoon.
Mr. Often upset he is so maligned in turn...advising others...to calm down :chuckle:
It's righteous indignation, knucklehead.
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Danoh wrote:
Romans 11:26's "all Israel" was not only already identified by Paul as all the BELIEVING remnant of Israel in Isaac, you incompetent, but "as it is written."
But he says it includes Gentiles 9:26 with 4 proofs from the OT. I win again.
Romans 11:26's "all Israel" was not only already identified by Paul as all the BELIEVING remnant of Israel in Isaac, you incompetent, but "as it is written."
But he says it includes Gentiles 9:26 with 4 proofs from the OT. I win again.
Interplanner
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Danoh wrote:
Because, you books based fraud, what he has been CONTINUALLY asserting THROUGHOUT Romans 9 thru 11 is that the fact that with Paul's ministry among the Gentiles, it looked now not only like God had ONCE MORE delayed His PROPHESIED Wrath unto Israel AS A NATION and PRIOR TO His EQUALLY PROPHESIED Mercy unto THEM AS A NATION, but was THROUGH with His PROMISES UNTO Israel AS A NATIONZ, and was now out among INDIVIDUALS from ALL nations - INCLUDING INDIVIDUALS from Israel - it did NOT mean He would NOT make good on said PROPHESIED Wrath unto THEM as A NATION PRIOR TO said PROPHESIED Mercy unto THEM as A NATION.
He did execute his wrath on them. He did pour out the Spirit on those who believed. There is nothing 'looked like' about it. Besides the end of ch 11 says everything is now in and through Christ to all ethnes. There is no more direct dealings apart from that.
Because, you books based fraud, what he has been CONTINUALLY asserting THROUGHOUT Romans 9 thru 11 is that the fact that with Paul's ministry among the Gentiles, it looked now not only like God had ONCE MORE delayed His PROPHESIED Wrath unto Israel AS A NATION and PRIOR TO His EQUALLY PROPHESIED Mercy unto THEM AS A NATION, but was THROUGH with His PROMISES UNTO Israel AS A NATIONZ, and was now out among INDIVIDUALS from ALL nations - INCLUDING INDIVIDUALS from Israel - it did NOT mean He would NOT make good on said PROPHESIED Wrath unto THEM as A NATION PRIOR TO said PROPHESIED Mercy unto THEM as A NATION.
He did execute his wrath on them. He did pour out the Spirit on those who believed. There is nothing 'looked like' about it. Besides the end of ch 11 says everything is now in and through Christ to all ethnes. There is no more direct dealings apart from that.
Interplanner
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Danoh wrote:
Worse, an arrogant one. Thus, your endless "I don't need your help, thank you."
Enjoy your bad mood, but the guy RD actually thought I needed to know that Rom 9-11 was about Israel. He's really bright, you know.
Worse, an arrogant one. Thus, your endless "I don't need your help, thank you."
Enjoy your bad mood, but the guy RD actually thought I needed to know that Rom 9-11 was about Israel. He's really bright, you know.
Interplanner
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I won't be changing, Danoh, but it would help if you kept brief and on point and off of secondary reactions and characterizations. You darted off down Rom 9 and was immediately unsatisfactory. You need to 'clear' your point by point, or precept by precept. The early part does not mean what you think because of the latter.
No, o clueless one.
In Romans 9 he is asserting...
God's right to do as He wills in His sovereignty...
1 - how that He has once more delayed His Prophesied wrath as to Israel...
2 - during their Prophesied disobedience....
3 - that He might first do something else...
4 - prior to His unleashing of His Prophesied wrath unto them
5 - followed by His Prophesied return unto them in His Prophesied mercy unto them.
He is relating that said delay is because God is doing something else first.
And he cites several examples from Israel's past where all that had also been the case.
This here, you incompetent....
Romans 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Is NOT a reference to this here...
Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rather, 9:25-26 are one more example cited by Paul of a time in Israel's past wherein God had "ALSO" delayed His pending, Prophesied wrath as to Israel during their Prophesied disobedience, that He might do something else, prior to His Prophesied return unto them in His Prophesied mercy unto them.
Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
That is why He has delayed His Prophesied wrath unto them during their Prophesied disobedience, prior to His pouring out of said Prophesied wrath unto them, prior to His Prophesied return unto them in His Prophesied mercy unto them.
Paul then cites other times in Israel's history where this same recurrent pattern of God's had ALSO been the case.
Example 1:
Romans 9:25 As he saith ALSO in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Romans 9:26 AND it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Then ALSO, God had not been through with Israel.
Example 2:
Romans 9:27 Esaias ALSO crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Romans 9:28 FOR HE WILL finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: BECAUSE a short work WILL the Lord make upon the earth.
Nope, you and I do not hold to the same God.
Yours is the Promise breaker of Preterism and that fool Holford.
One More:
Romans 9:29 AND AS ESAIS SAID BEFORE, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
What then has happened concerning Israel that God has delayed all the above - during their Prophesied disobedience, once more?
Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 10 continues this same theme.
Romans 11 summarizes it.
Interplanner
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Danoh wrote:
He is relating that said delay is because God is doing something else first.
Nice pontificating, but if you don't establish a point, and I can't get past it, you are wasting your time. There is no 'said delay' (do you need to resort to 1950s 'legalese'? lol). God is doing it all as planned. There are several passages that say so; they do not say the nations' beleiving is a mystery that God resorted to. That is D'ist crap thought.
why do you deny you are full of 2P2P when that post is full of it?
And of course you go off down your Israel v Judah bunny trail again. Broken CD.
He is relating that said delay is because God is doing something else first.
Nice pontificating, but if you don't establish a point, and I can't get past it, you are wasting your time. There is no 'said delay' (do you need to resort to 1950s 'legalese'? lol). God is doing it all as planned. There are several passages that say so; they do not say the nations' beleiving is a mystery that God resorted to. That is D'ist crap thought.
why do you deny you are full of 2P2P when that post is full of it?
And of course you go off down your Israel v Judah bunny trail again. Broken CD.
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I hope you can see the truth in Christ some day. You are trying to see it in delayed and or convoluted events. And avoiding the one clear event referred to by the NT. Anything to make the mind YOUR MIND the 'key to Scripture.'
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Always your silly, unscriptural responses. So tiring.... What about the New Jerusalem? It's pretty important.
Do you still believe that the LORD will lead sheep to lie down by TOXIC waters? What a dummy!
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I explained the CONTEXT and MEANING of Romans 9 to you, but you're too dumb to understand it.
Interplanner
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You failed. All it takes to be in the seed of Abraham is faith. It does not mean 'faith and lineage.' that's why "us" in 9:26 is also some gentiles and why the 4 quotes that support that are about the gentiles.
What lineage was Abraham the moment before he had faith? Does it matter?