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Invented out of thin air.
Gentiles were ALWAYS able to believe and join with Israel. See Exodus 12.
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Gentiles were ALWAYS able to believe and join with Israel. See Exodus 12.
Interplanner
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But believing does not mean joining Judaism. That's why so much effort by Paul went into showing faith BEFORE circumcision. And why 'sacrifices and offerings were not desired.' Because most of the time there is no faith at work.
Anyway you have totally lost the meaning of the passage. Gen 3 and 12 are enough to say that 'all nations were to be blessed in the Seed.' But Judaism thought it (the race and worship system) were the seed. It didn't realize it meant Christ, like Abraham did--seeing Christ's day.
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God required both faith and works from Israel.
The body of Christ is not the same thing, no matter how many commentaries you quote.
More fairy stories.
Interplanner
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I didn't quote any; it's Gal 3:16.
Anyway let's back up one step and see if we can improve your awful mood. If Gentiles could believe all along, where do we disagree? What was it about Judaism that had hidden that (access for Gentiles) from them?
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God's plans for His kingdom on the earth with Israel as the head and Christ as the king will proceed in due time.
God's plans for His body of Christ is not the same thing and was a mystery until revealed to and through the apostle Paul.
Your vehement "there can only be ONE plan and ONE gospel" does not change any of that.
Interplanner
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It's not mine. And your plan on earth is confused with the NHNE, Rom 4:13; Heb 2:5.
Eph 3:5-6 is quite plain. The Gentiles becoming believers was always in the OT. It was that it was apart from the Law and 'in the Gospel' that mystified Judaism. You have to remember to ask 'who was it a mystery to?'
There is no 2P2P in the NT. It is entirely unaware of such a thing, which Chafer said he invented 'so people could understand the conflicting message of the Bible.' What a guy, but it made him a Dallas founder to say so!
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The new heaven and the new EARTH come at the very end. There is lot of history between now and then. This includes Christ's millennial reign from His throne in Jerusalem.
Matt 6:10 (AKJV/PCE)
(6:10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
There have been gentile believers from the very founding of Israel. That is NOT a new thing.
Believers in Israel understood that they were not justified by the law.
Once again your "NT understanding" is completely flawed.
Did the "NT" start in Matt 1:1? Did the "OT" start in Genesis 1:1?
Blah, blah, blah....
Interplanner
Well-known member
It's not mine. And your plan on earth is confused with the NHNE, Rom 4:13; Heb 2:5.
Eph 3:5-6 is quite plain. The Gentiles becoming believers was always in the OT. It was that it was apart from the Law and 'in the Gospel' that mystified Judaism. You have to remember to ask 'who was it a mystery to?'
There is no 2P2P in the NT. It is entirely unaware of such a thing, which Chafer said he invented 'so people could understand the conflicting message of the Bible.' What a guy, but it made him a Dallas founder to say so!
Interplanner
Well-known member
Where do you get this?
Believers in Israel understood that they were not justified by the law.
You see one of the fundamental flaws of D'ism is that they don't know when they are reading Moses and when they are reading intertestament post-exile Judaism. Which people did you think you were talking about?
Believers in Israel understood that they were not justified by the law.
You see one of the fundamental flaws of D'ism is that they don't know when they are reading Moses and when they are reading intertestament post-exile Judaism. Which people did you think you were talking about?
Interplanner
Well-known member
Your redefinition of NT is worthless, but on the blah, blah thing about Chafer, you can't do that. it is quote from his book. You need to get outside of your head and realize some basic facts about what the D'ists thought needed to be solved. The NT is not self-organizing to them; it "needs" them. That is why people like you are so defensive about (against) commentaries and language skills, and are unable to see things that are self-organizing about the Bible or NT. 2P2P is the frame, not the 4 legs I expressed in this OP.
Speaking of which: when are you going to say something coherent about them?
Interplanner
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RD:
There have been gentile believers from the very founding of Israel. That is NOT a new thing.
This line is right RD, as long as you don't go 2P2P. Hebrews lists and validates those that had faith all the way back. But you can't go 2P2P Because in 2P2P the bare fact of being in the land was one of the programs, no matter what faith or spirit they had. That's the defect of it. But D'ism has backed intself into that corner where it has to say so. It doesn't realize that the land promise came and went and was only a prep for the mission of Christ, Acts 13.
There have been gentile believers from the very founding of Israel. That is NOT a new thing.
This line is right RD, as long as you don't go 2P2P. Hebrews lists and validates those that had faith all the way back. But you can't go 2P2P Because in 2P2P the bare fact of being in the land was one of the programs, no matter what faith or spirit they had. That's the defect of it. But D'ism has backed intself into that corner where it has to say so. It doesn't realize that the land promise came and went and was only a prep for the mission of Christ, Acts 13.
Yes, Paul explained that Christ's body has been converted into God's kingdom.
"He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins." (Colossians 1:13-14)
Paul was sent to Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. Why would he have different messages?
"But the Lord said to him, 'Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel." (Acts 9:15)
And Paul is buried in England.
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There is more than one aspect of "God's kingdom". The EARTHLY kingdom is what God was and will do with and through Israel.
The body of Christ is part of God's heavenly kingdom were we are seated with Christ.
When you try (in vain) to smash these together before God brings them together, all you get is chaos and confusion.
SaulToPaul 2
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DING DING DING.
It was a mystery that Gentiles APART FROM ISRAEL would be saved.
Think, McFly, think.
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Paul preached ALL the counsel of God.
Acts 20:27 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:27) For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
:dizzy:
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Made up, as usual.
Only those who are indwelt by the Spirit of Christ are his.
"Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." (Romans 8:9-10)
Why do you believe the Spirit of Christ is not in us?
So there it is, Paul preached all the counsel of God to Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
Paul preached the OT faithfully as Christ gave him understanding.
Interplanner
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