ECT The Neo-MADs and Romans 16:7: 'In Chrisr Before Me'

[oatmeal]

So what is your point concerning the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law?:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

How can a person really believe what the Lord Jesus said at John 6:47 if the DON'T have their head in the game?

How can anyone understand the following simple words if the don't have their heads in the game?:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"
(Jn.3:16).​

When Paul preached he "reasoned out of the Scriptures" (Acts 17:2) so tell me how anyone can understand what the Scriptures say unless they use their ability to reason?

I am not an Israelite living in the gospel period. Jesus did not die until in Matthew 1:18, He had many things to accomplish in his life and by his life to pay for the gift. A gift is not free to the give, but to the recipient of that gift. Jesus Christ paid with his life so that eternal life could be a gift, not wages for works, Jesus Christ did the works to accomplish that for us.

I am a member in particular in the body of Christ in this age of grace.

Jesus Christ was not sent to the Gentiles but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel,Matthew 15:24, thus, words spoken by Jesus Christ as a minister to the circumcision, Romans 15:8, do not directly apply to me, no more than Jesus telling Lazarus, "Lazarus, come forth" in John 11:43 applies to me.

Now, that does not negate Jesus' words but simply puts them in the proper perspective.

I do not have to live under the law for righteousness, because for a believer in this age of grace, righteousness is a gift II Corinthians 5:21, Romans 5:17

I am not Lazarus, I am not the women at the well, I have not have had five husbands, but she did.

However, we can do learn much from Jesus' words, but that does not mean his words are directed to the body of Christ. His ministry and his words and actions were for the benefit of the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Now, however, we know because of the revelation given by God to the Apostle Paul that Jesus' works provided benefits to those outside of Israel for Jesus died for the sins of the world which would include the sins of Gentiles.

How can a person really believe what the Lord Jesus said at John 6:47 if the DON'T have their head in the game?

Well, I do not do all the truths in scripture all at the same time, do you?

I can have my head and heart doing Ephesians 4:32, but in do so, can I totally and undividedly focus on other truths at the same time?

I can't, I only focus on one thing at a time. If God wanted you to be kindly affectionate to a good friend right now but you are busy teaching about King Saul, is your heart and head where God wants it to be?

No, If you are in the wrong place to carry out what God wants you to be, you cannot do what you need to be doing.

Likewise if you are in the right location to be doing what God wants you to be doing but your attention is on something else, your head and heart is not in the game.

We need to learn to walk by the spirit so that we are at the right place at the right time doing and saying what God wants done. That does not mean God has a perfect spot for us to be at all times, although maybe he does, but only Jesus Christ always did the Father's will.

Well, I have believed on Jesus Christ, John 6:47 by doing Romans 10:9-10, so I have received the gift of eternal life and am a member in particular of the body of Christ.

Well, having done that, should I throw away the scripture because I now have eternal life?

Or do you think I should read the instructions on how to live for the glory of God now that I have eternal life?

You could have a million dollars in your mattress, but is it doing anyone any good if you do not have a plan to utilize it? Is simply having a million dollars in a mattress the best that can be done with that?

Is having eternal life the most I can do for God?

There is huge amount of things that I can do for God because I have eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-10 God has ordained me to do good works because I have that gift of salvation

How do you plan to fulfill John 14:12 in your life if you don't have the spiritual ability, the gift of eternal life/holy spirit/righteousness to enable you to do it?

What is it that you do with eternal life once you have it? Sit on it and brag about it? Or do you do something with it? Where do you learn what you can do with it?

How do you learn what you can do with it?

You have the football, what are you going to do with it?

Is your head in the game? Do you even know the rules of that game that apply to you?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I am a member in particular in the body of Christ in this age of grace.

When do you think that the "age of grace" began?

Haven't all those who have seen saved down through the ages been saved by grace through faith?

 

[DAN P]

Again, Paul speaks of a "remnant" at Romans 11:5 and in the following passage he speaks of two different groups who were reconciled unto God in one Body:

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:13-16).​

Here Paul speaks of two groups of people and I say that one group is the believing remnant of Romans 11:5 and the other the believing Gentiles.

Since Paul spoke of others who were "in Christ" before he was then I say that it was the believing remnant who was in the Body of Christ before Paul was.

But you are incapable of having an intelligent subject on this matter because you absolutely refuse to discuss either Ephesians 2:12-16 or the following verse:

"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me" (Ro.16:7).​

You also prove that you are incapable of either believing or understanding the meaning of the word "whosoever" in the following verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

According to you and your fellow Neo-MADs the word "whosoever" means "whosoever except for the Jews who lived under the law.

If we add up together the spiritual I.Q. of all those who belong to the Neo-MAD group the sum comes to ZERO! And that is the reason why you don't even attempt to answer any of my points.

Hi Jerry , ans in Rom 16:7 , who are illustrious among the APOSTLES , WHO ALSO HAVE BECOME " IN CHRIST BEFORE ME !!

Answer who these APOSTLES ARE ??

It is obviously speaking about the 12 apostles !!

In Rom 16:8 , 11 , 13 , why does it change from being " in Christ " and then use the phrase " in the Lord " instead ?

The B O C was NOT YET KNOWN , until it was revealed by Paul until 1 Cor was written !!

It is obviously , from Gal !:23 that there are 2 groups of believers here , THE MESSIANIC BELIEVERS and the B O C as written by Paul and that is why you are Acts 13 are , BLIND leading the BLIND !!

And you will never understand Gal 1:23 , EITHER !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi Jerry , ans in Rom 16:7 , who are illustrious among the APOSTLES , WHO ALSO HAVE BECOME " IN CHRIST BEFORE ME !!

Answer who these APOSTLES ARE ??

It is obviously speaking about the 12 apostles !!

Paul is speaking of other believers who were members of the body of Christ before he was so Paul was not the firzt member.

 

[DAN P]

Paul is speaking of other believers who were members of the body of Christ before he was so Paul was not the firzt member.

Hi Jerry and Paul was saved by the HOLY SPIRIT in Acts 9:6 and 1 Cor 12:3 proves it , that NO ONE CAN CALL JESUS LORD , EXCEPT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT !!

Who were those APOSTLES in Rom 16:7 , PRAY TELL ??

You have accused me of NOT answering , so either answer and stop putting up NONSENSE !!

Paul was the PATTERN that Christ used in 1 Tim 1:16 !!

So what was the PATTERN !!

So how were the 12 saved OR how was Peter saved ??

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So how were the 12 saved OR how was Peter saved ??

This is what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

Here is what Peter said about the way that he was saved:

"He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:9-11).​

Paul made it plain that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

 

[northwye]

"I believe that the whole company of Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ at Acts 7 when Stephen was stoned and that was the same time when Israel was temporarily set aside."

What is meant by "Israel" in dispensationalism when it says Israel was temporarily set aside?

Is "Israel" in dispensationalism the remnant of Romans 11: 1-5, who, in the First Century Accepted Christ and his doctrines? Or is "Israel" the multitude of Israel, that is, all who are of the physical bloodline? This question is important in dispensationalism.

What dispensationalists say about the "Israel" in Romans 11: 26 points to the dispensationalist definition of "All Israel" as all of physical Bloodline Israel, (See: I Corinthians 10: 18). which is the multitude of Israel.

 

[DAN P]

Hi Jerry and there are 3 verbs in John 6:47 and are all in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and that tells us that the CONTEXT is NOT speaking to the B O C but speaking to Israel !!

Simple as that !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

This is what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

Here is what Peter said about the way that he was saved:

"He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:9-11).​

Paul made it plain that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Hi Jerry and you say that God does not DISCRIMINATE between Jews and Gentiles , YES he does !!

In Matthew 10:5 tells the Apostles to Go not to the Gentiles or Samaritans !!

In Acts 15:11 Peter says , that we believe through the GRACE of Lord Jesus Christ TO , do you see that Jerry , TO , be saved as they also !!

So what does the INFINITIVE ( TO ) mean , HERE !!

This verse also REVEALS that people were being saved by GRACE !!

Gal 1:23 shows that there 3 gospels being preached #1 the Law of Moses , #2 than the the LITTLE FLOCK also called the 12 APOSTLES #3 The GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD , Rom 16:25 and 26 !!

Dump Acts 13 as it HAS NO LEGS OR STANDING !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi Jerry and you say that God does not DISCRIMINATE between Jews and Gentiles , YES he does !!

Not in regard to salvation, as witnessed by what Peter said:

"He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:9-11).​

Both the Gentiles and the Jews were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

The Jews wholived under the law were saved by believing alone, as witnessed by the following words of the Savior spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

Dan, sometimes I wonder if you can even understand what the Lord Jesus said there. Can you understand that He was telling the Jews who lived under the law that upon believing they would be saved and inherit eternal life?

 

[DAN P]

Hi Jerry , and as you said , John 6:47 3 verbs are in the PRESENT TENSE are you saying that vthe PRESENT TENSE of John 6:47 is for NOW and Not for the PRESENT TENSE of Jesus earthly ministry , you have to be KIDDING and I wonder if you under stand that John is writing ONLY to Israel !!

Give a verse as to how Peter was saved ?

Try Luke 22:32 ??

What does " TO BE SAVED " in Acts 15:11 then mean ??

Glad you are bringing this out , the Acts 13 position , and all will see that Acts 9 is where Paul was saved by the HOLY SPIRIT , 1 Cor 12:3 that NO ONE CALLS JESUS LORD EXCEPT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT and ghat Paul is the n first , PROTO , saved by GRACE and that Paul is the PATTERN / HYPOTYOSIS which means that Paul is the outline , the Beginning of the ONES COMING to believe on Him unto everlasting life !!

John nor Peter were a PATTERN of the GRACE OF GOD !!

DAN P

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi Jerry , and as you said , John 6:47 3 verbs are in the PRESENT TENSE are you saying that vthe PRESENT TENSE of John 6:47 is for NOW and Not for the PRESENT TENSE of Jesus earthly ministry , you have to be KIDDING and I wonder if you under stand that John is writing ONLY to Israel !!

Dan, you have trouble understanding the following words of the Savior spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

The Lord was telling those Jews who lived under the law that those who were believing on Him at that moment had everlasting life.

He also said that His words are Spirit and they are life:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

Dan, the Jews who lived under the law were born of God when they believed in His name:

"He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:11-13).​

Do you think that they were saved when they became children of God by being born of God?

 

[glorydaz]

Dan, you have trouble understanding the following words of the Savior spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

The Lord was telling those Jews who lived under the law that those who were believing on Him at that moment had everlasting life.

He also said that His words are Spirit and they are life:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

Dan, the Jews who lived under the law were born of God when they believed in His name:

"He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:11-13).​

Do you think that they were saved when they became children of God by being born of God?

Jerry, do you just copy and paste this post over and over again? That isn't healthy.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, do you just copy and paste this post over and over again? That isn't healthy.

What will not be good for your health is the way you run and hide from the Scriptures. It is only those who "believe God" who are justified by God:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Ro.4:3).​

Instead of believing what the Lord Jesus Christ said in the following verse to the Jews who lived under the law you say that those Jews could not be saved apart from works:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

Evidently your final authority on this subject is not the Bible but instead what some people told you about how the Jews who lived under the law were saved.

"glorydaz did not believe God and so it was not counted to her for righteousness."​

You are willing to bet your eternal destiny on the idea that what the Lord Jesus said at John 6:47 does not mean what it says. You are going to lose that bet and you will have no one to blame except yourself!

 

[glorydaz]

You are willing to bet your eternal destiny on the idea that what the Lord Jesus said at John 6:47 does not mean what it says. You are going to lose that bet and you will have no one to blame except yourself!

My eternal destiny is secure, Jerry, for I was saved under the dispensation of Grace.

That's the great difference between the Law and Grace.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

My eternal destiny is secure, Jerry, for I was saved under the dispensation of Grace.

That's the great difference between the Law and Grace.

No, if you "believed God" then you would know that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by faith alone, as witnessed by the following words of the Savior:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

You also refuse to believe the saved who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

You can't believe that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith because you can't understand spiritual things:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (2 Cor.2:14).​

You are no more saved than the man in the moon!

 

[glorydaz]

You are no more saved than the man in the moon!

Hey Robert....welcome back. You haven't changed in the least. :chuckle:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hey Robert....welcome back. You haven't changed in the least. :chuckle:

You are in a state of unbelief and that is evident because you refuse to even discuss the words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law which prove that the saved were saved by faith and faith alone:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

You can claim that you have faith while on the earth but at the Great White Throne those verses alone will be enough to condemn you and declare you guilty of unbelief. Then you will be without excuse!

 

[Right Divider]

Saved by grace through faith.... you don't scare us, Jerry the Judge of the salvation of others.

 

[glorydaz]

Saved by grace through faith.... you don't scare us, Jerry the Judge of the salvation of others.

I think it happens to everyone who returns to the law. It gets ahold of them and sucks them in.


Jerry forgets...

Gal. 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal. 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.​