The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
2 Cor 5:21


21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

This scripture here when properly understood, teaches that Christ did not die for everyone in the world without exception. The being made sin here speaks to Him being made a sin offering, as Isa 53 stated it here Isa 53:10

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

And so, Paul says to the Corinthian Church this 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

And so, who are the Our Sins Christ died for ? Why its the same ones Paul says later on in the second letter to the same, those who Christ was made sin in behalf of, and those are made the Righteousness of God in Him. So there you have it, we see who it is Christ died for, them only who are made Righteous See Rom 5:19b. Now are all men without exception made Righteous ? Then the Extent of Christ's Death could not have been for all men without exception ! It was for His Church which He Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25-27

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

So He was made sin for the Church, His Body !
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Amen Brother!

Christ became sin for US 2 Cor. 5:21 and obtained Eternal Redemption for US:
His Body the Church, Chosen in union with Him Eph. 1:4-6 to have redemption through His Blood.

Eph. 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Heb. 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for US.

So Christ's Death was exclusively for the US, His Church,
who were made Righteous by His Obedience unto death for them Rom. 5:19b; Phil.2:8.



Yet there are many outside of the Grace of God who shall die in their sins John 8:24
because Christ did not satisfy God's Law and Justice on their behalf, so they must pay
the wages for their own sins Rom. 6:23a:

Rev. 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,
and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars,
shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:
which is the second death.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
We know that Jesus Christ did not die for everyone without exception because by His Death or Offering, He has sanctified all for whom He was offered in behalf of permanently, once and for all ! Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Now can this be said of all without exception ? Is it true of the workers of Iniquity that Jesus will say this to Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Do you really believe that these were sanctified once and for all by His Offering, or His Death , for His Offering and Death are the same thing you know ! His Death is a expiational Offering !

Now if Christ died for them He is speaking to in Matt 7:23, then they can say while in everlasting Fire, that I too have been sanctified once and for all by Christ's Death ! You see how inconsistent that is with the Lie that Christ died for all without exception ?
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Yes, Inconsistent Indeed!

Mankind consists of two groups of people:

#1 A Sanctified World of People Heb. 10:10 whom Christ Loved Eph. 1:4; John 3:16 and Knows John 10:14; His Sheep whose iniquity was laid on Him John 10:11, 15; Is. 53:6; Ps. 32:1-2.


#2 A world of people Christ never knew [ginosko] intimately Mat. 7:23 whom He hated, whose sins were never laid on Him, the goats that work iniquity, reserved for everlasting fire Mat. 25:41.

Ps. 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
Even though I know many cannot and will not receive this Truth, because they believe the lie that Christ died for all men, making all men without exception redeemable, nevertheless Redemption in Christ is limited to a Chosen People Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Now who are the we Paul is Identifying Himself with ? Its the Chosen of God Eph 1:3-4

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

That this Redemption God provides is for only for a Elect People is seen in the OT Scriptures, which gives a Divine Command Ps 130:7-8

7 Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.

8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

This is the Redemption the old Saint referred to here Lk 1:68

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

This speaking of Jesus Christ, the Head of His Body the Church Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Compare this scripture with Ps 130:8

And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

I know many will reject this clear Truth ! And Yes,m this means Israel of Ps 130:7-8 is the Church of Titus 2:14 !
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Exactly Brother!

God's Elect Eph. 1:4; 1 Pet. 1:2 is the True Israel of God that shall be Saved: Not the physical nation as false religion teaches, but a Spiritual People: Christ's Body the Church that He gave Himself for Eph. 5:25, which consists of both jew and Gentile from all nations of the earth Rev. 5:9. And so, as the scripture declares, all Israel shall be Saved:

Is. 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Rom. 9:7-8
7 Neither, because they are the [physical] seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac [Spiritual] shall thy seed be called.8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal. 3:16, 29.
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Seed of Christ is the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, the Israel which was Promised Salvation!
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
Jer 50:20

In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

This also speaks to Particular Redemption, for Pardon comes through Redemption as Per Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

The word forgiveness is the greek word aphesis:

release from bondage or imprisonment

2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

And of course we know Eph 1:7 is speaking of the Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4

Mich 7:18

18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

You see, pardoneth of the remnant, not all mankind, and this is speaking of God's Mercy, but its restricted, and so Paul writes Rom 9:18

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

He is particular about who He has mercy and pardon on !

Rom 11:4

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

You see that ? I have reserved to myself ! Thats God's Freewill doing that !

We never truly worship the True God of Heaven until we understand this !
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Amen Rom. 9:16!
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
So if the scripture declares that Christ specifically died for His Church and Loved it Eph 5:25, then the world God Loved and gave Christ for in Jn 3:16 is the same Church !



 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
So if the scripture declares that Christ specifically died for His Church and Loved it Eph 5:25, then the world God Loved and gave Christ for in Jn 3:16 is the same Church !
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Yes, One and the Same!

It's The World God Chose In union with His Son, before the foundation, to be holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4: A remnant of mankind, consisting of all ethnicities, to be His Special People that He Willed to set His Love upon Deut. 7:6-7 in Christ Jesus.

Rom. 8:39
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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1 John 2:2 New International Version (NIV)

2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
 
Z

zzub

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RealityJerk said:
What I said is false, because you say it is? That itself is a "rabbit trail" claim. Are you the new protestant pope of Christian doctrine?
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Hi RJ
Poster 'belovednot57' is an old pope. His signature says he is a calvinist and he name drops Spurgeon. If he only knew what Spurgeon said and wrote. For example:
https://answersingenesis.org/education/spurgeon-sermons/1516-salvation-by-knowing-the-truth/

Sermon 1516. Salvation By Knowing The Truth

by Charles H. Spurgeon on August 20, 2014

A Sermon Delivered On Sunday Evening, By C. H. Spurgeon, At The Metropolitan Tabernacle, Newington. *12/30/2012

God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. [1Ti 2:3,4]

.......
What then? Shall we try to put another meaning into the text than what it fairly bears? I do not think so. You must, most of you, be acquainted with the general method in which our older Calvinistic friends deal with this text.

“All men,” they say, — “that is, some men”: as if the Holy Spirit could not have said “some men” if he had meant some men.

“All men,” they say; “that is, some of all kinds of men”: as if the Lord could not have said “all kinds of men” if he had meant that.

The Holy Spirit by the apostle has written “all men,” and unquestionably he means all men. I know how to get rid of the force of the “alls” according to that critical method which some time ago was very popular, but I do not see how it can be applied here with due regard to truth. I was reading just now the exposition of a very able doctor who explains the text so as to explain it away; he applies grammatical gunpowder to it, and explodes it by way of expounding it. I thought when I read his exposition that it would have been a very capital comment upon the text if it had read, “Who will not have all men to be saved, nor come to a knowledge of the truth.”

Had such been the inspired language every remark of the learned doctor would have been most proper, but since it happens to say, “Who will have all men to be saved,” his observations are more than a little out of place. My love for consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater. I would sooner a hundred times over appear to be inconsistent with myself than be inconsistent with the word of God.

I never thought it to be any very great crime to seem to be inconsistent with myself; for who am I that I should everlastingly be consistent? But I do think it is a great crime to be so inconsistent with the word of God that I should want to lop away a bough or even a twig from so much as a single tree of the forest of Scripture. God forbid that I should cut or shape, even in the least degree, any divine expression. So runs the text, and so we must read it, “God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

REMEMBER - This is Charles Spurgeon speaking, showing clearly that the likes of poset belovednot57 are hopelessly inconsistent with the word of God and also their inconsistent with those they quote in their signature.

BEWARE FALSE PROPHETS.
 
Z

zzub

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Spurgeon writes:
"as if the Holy Spirit could not have said “some men” if he had meant some men."

Christ

God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. [1Ti 2:3,4]

Calvinism

“Who will not have all men to be saved,

No doubt some old time calvy will pop up and declare the word "all' does not mean "all" all the time. Meaning, they don't want the word "all" to mean what it says when they do not want it to.

Load of calvy baloney. Just to be clear we have:
2 Peter 3:9New International Version (NIV)

"9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Notice it says NOT WANTING any to perish. Different words to express "God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved"

So do not be fooled by calvinist grammatical gunpowder.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
Matt 23:37

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Many today in false religion believe this verse teaches that Christ died for all mankind, and that He desires the Salvation of everyone without exception, however that is reading into the verse what they want it to say and mean. The fact of the matter is, that Christ did not desire all these reprobated jew to be saved, in fact, He had just stated earlier that many of them were of that generation of reprbated serpents , and eternal damnation was there sure portion Matt 23:31-33

31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Now the fact is again, Jesus in Vs 37 said nothing about gathering them whom killed the Prophets, and stoned them, no for those were the children of the serpent Matt 23:31-36



No, Jesus stated quite clearly, that He would have gathered THEIR CHILDREN, NOT THEM !

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Now who is meant here ? It means, He came to gather from among them some of the Sheep of the jewish fold, some of the True Children of God amongst them, like for instance, the disciples, Nicademus and others. The same thing is taught here Jn 11:51-52

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

The gathering together here is the same word and gathering together of Matt 23:37.

Yes, there were Children of God amongst the jews, whereas most of them were reprobated.

Jesus was very successful in gathering out from amongst the reprobated jews, the Sheep of that fold, as indicated here Jn 10:1-5,16

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

But those reprobated jews of the genration of the serpent, who killeth the prophets Matt 23:33,34,37 they are the ones whose eternal damnation is set and sure Vs 33, and even Paul himself writes of their destruction from God 1 Thess 2:14-16



Notice Paul says something here very important about those apostate jews " to fill up their sins alway:"

Sound familiar ? It should because Our Saviour said the same thing to those reprobates Matt 23:32-33. That physical nation will always be under God's wrath and judgment to the uttermost 1 Thess 2:15-16, Even today they hate the True God and Jesus Christ, and are vainly looking for a ethnic jewish messiah to set up a physical jewish kingdom ! Good Luck with that !
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TY My Brother for this Comprehensive Teaching on Mat. 23:37 **** !
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
He died for the Seed of Abraham, not all mankind !



When Christ was made of a Woman and Under the Law as Per Gal 4:4-5

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

The scripture is pretty clear in fact, incontrovertible, whom it was for , not all mankind without exception but for the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

The Seed of Abraham is not all mankind, but a Chosen People from amongst mankind in general. Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Was not Christ the Seed of Abraham ? Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

This also means that it was the Seed of Abraham that Adam exclusively represented in the beginning. It was that Seed that fell in Adam and that Seed which Christ came to recover.

The rest of mankind belongs to the seed of the serpent, whom Christ did not come to seek and to save !
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Amen, which speaks of a Limited Atonement / Particular Redemption.

The Seed of the serpent [reprobates] can only work iniquity because their sins were never laid on Christ; He never knew them intimately [ginosko] Mat. 7:23.

But Christ's Death for sin was exclusively for the Chosen Seed of Abraham Heb. 2:16; His Sheep Is. 53:6 who belonged to Him from Everlasting Eph. 1:4-7; His Seed Gal. 3:29: The Blessed ones spoken of in Ps. 32:1-2.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
nanja



Sure you right !



Amen !
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Thanking God for your fellowship Brother, and Ministry in the Gospel contained in your threads !

And it's with God's help, to the best of my knowledge, that I am now up to date, and have completed my study of the teachings and scriptures 2 Tim. 2:15 you have provided thus far in this excellent thread, "The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !" TY ! ☺
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Nanja said:
Thanking God for your fellowship Brother, and Ministry in the Gospel contained in your threads !

And it's with God's help, to the best of my knowledge, that I am now up to date, and have completed my study of the teachings and scriptures 2 Tim. 2:15 you have provided thus far in this excellent thread, "The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !" TY ! ☺
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Bless you Sister, I Thank God for you !
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
He specifically died for the Seed of Abraham !

There are so many scriptures that indicate specifically who Christ died for in lieu of the false sentiment and notion that He died for every individual of mankind !

One such scripture passage is Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Now He took on the seed of Abraham, and why ? to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
His coming to die for sin was only for a segment of mankind , the seed of Abraham

He came to only render aid to and rescue Abrahams descendants !

And no, not Abrahams carnal descendants according natural heritage because they themselves are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

But those descendants of Abraham belonging to Christ Gal 3:29

[FONT=&quot]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Christ is the Head of His Body the Church ! Thats who Christ specifically died for Eph 5:25

5 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;[/FONT]
 
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