iouae
Well-known member
So like I asked in #7, who is it talking about, and why?
And do you understand types. The King of Babylon is a type of Satan?
The Most High
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So like I asked in #7, who is it talking about, and why?
And do you understand types. The King of Babylon is a type of Satan?
I do not accept that position or stance. It is not talking about Satan. It is talking about the King of Babylon.
iouae
Well-known member
Isa 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
The bits I underlined, no human could do.
It is talking about the King of Babylon.
iouae
Well-known member
No king of Babylon could do the bits I underlined. So you need to see the type.
I did not say that the King of Babylon did this. It is talking about the King of Babylon.
iouae
Well-known member
It DOES say the "king of Babylon" or type for Lucifer/Helel/Satan did this.
Who do you say it is talking about if not the "king of Babylon" or type for Lucifer/Helel/Satan?
It is talking about the King of Babylon. Not Lucifer or Satan. I do not believe a being called Lucifer exists. Helel does not mean Lucifer.
iouae
Well-known member
OK. So who is Helel?
I do not know if who is Helel is the right question. Rather, what does helel mean? Do not go to a Christian source, teaching, or tradition.
iouae
Well-known member
That's why I am asking you.
I have said that this is not Lucifer, and this is what I know. I provided text from Chabad.org. I shared the NASB which I grew up with. How these read to you can change until you see the truth.
iouae
Well-known member
It sounds to me that you don't think Helel is Satan, but beyond that you cannot really tell me what significance Helel has. Do you acknowledge that the bits I underlined apply to a spirit being? Helel is a spirit, not the human king of Babylon.
I could read what you underlined fine, but not as you are seeing it. I believe Satan exists but helel is not capitalized like you capitalize in English. I do not see this as identifying a spirit being (I do not believe in spirit beings) nor a spirit. When I said that this is the King of Babylon you asked another question not believing me to be saying the truth, telling the truth, or being genuine. You believe a lot of false things. If there is another problem that you have that is not my problem you are identifying. I do not know why you responded the way that you did, why you did that, nor why what you say would become my responsibility, is my responsibility, or would relate to anything or any person I have heard before.
iouae
Well-known member
I do believe in God. I believe that Satan exists. HaSatan means the accuser.
iouae
Well-known member
So why did you just now say you don't believe in spirits? Satan is a spirit.
iouae
Well-known member
That is where you said you do not believe in spirit beings.
Correct. I do not believe in spirit beings.