The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[freelight]

the rock of 'revelation'......

the rock of 'revelation'......

Pure fiction. 100% lies.

Why do you assume what is being shared here is 'fiction' or 'lies'? You are letting your preconception and prejudgment of the UB obscure the truth that is being shared. The truth pointed out in this passage is very clear, about what the 'rock' is -

“You are my chosen ambassadors, but I know that, in the circumstances, you could not entertain this belief as a result of mere human knowledge. This is a revelation of the spirit of my Father to your inmost souls. And when, therefore, you make this confession by the insight of the spirit of my Father which dwells within you, I am led to declare that upon this foundation will I build the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven. Upon this rock of spiritual reality will I build the living temple of spiritual fellowship in the eternal realities of my Father's kingdom."

I don't see how assuming the above is 'fiction', since it agrees with Peter that the 'revelation' that Jesus is the Son of God is what 'God' reveals to a person concerning Jesus divine Sonship.

The UB record gives a much more comprehensive explanation and discourse about the kingdom of heaven and many other subjects that the synoptics don't cover, expanding our understanding. The kingdom is being realized thru our own recognition of sonship with God thru his indwelling spirit (thought-adjuster), as well as thru the Spirit of truth (the Creator-Son's spirit), that was poured out upon the planet after his ascension. 'God' is the Universal Father of all, this is a fundamental original truth, from which all else derives and has its relation to. (The Universal Father being the First Source and Center of all creation).

We read further:

157:5.1 The new and vital feature of Peter's confession was the clear-cut recognition that Jesus was the Son of God, of his unquestioned divinity. Ever since his baptism and the wedding at Cana these apostles had variously regarded him as the Messiah, but it was not a part of the Jewish concept of the national deliverer that he should be divine. The Jews had not taught that the Messiah would spring from divinity; he was to be the “anointed one,” but hardly had they contemplated him as being “the Son of God.” In the second confession more emphasis was placed upon the combined nature, the supernal fact that he was the Son of Man and the Son of God, and it was upon this great truth of the union of the human nature with the divine nature that Jesus declared he would build the kingdom of heaven.

We note that Jesus accepted the titles of both 'Son of God' and 'Son of Man',...describing both his divine and human natures combined in the mystery of his incarnation.

The kingdom of heaven is realized in the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of men, a community founded and operating by loving service.

This is a revelation of the spirit of my Father to your inmost souls. And when, therefore, you make this confession by the insight of the spirit of my Father which dwells within you, I am led to declare that upon this foundation will I build the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven.

See: Kingdom of heaven

~*~*~

Caino wrote:

The Rock never was Peter nor the institutional church, any institutional church!

Yes,....the 'rock' is not necessarily Peter himself, neither a 'church organization', but is the "revelation" of Jesus divine Sonship, AND our sonship with God, this being 'foundational' to kingdom-community. A person can be referred to as a 'rock' in this context only as he embodies the revelation of sonship, but universally it applies to the revelation itself by the spirit-witness.

The RCC using this one verse (Matt. 16:18 ) to exalt Peter as sole 'key-bearer' is flimsy, since such a foundational base must include much more than a person, but a revelation upon which kingdom authority and government is based.

This is the kingdom of heaven—God is your Father and you are his sons, and this good news, if you wholeheartedly believe it, is your eternal salvation.”

 

[journey]

The ub is fabrication. What isn't fabrication is stolen. This is well known, so you don't have much of a following. A Google search results in a "Whew!"

 

[freelight]

Here we go again.....

Here we go again.....

The ub is fabrication. What isn't fabrication is stolen. This is well known, so you don't have much of a following. A Google search results in a "Whew!"

One can go to the OP and read thru this extensive thread to get most of the info. they need on the UB to make a proper investigation of it, and to read any part for themselves if there be any significant value therein. One can 'google' anything and take negative or positive commentary from a variety of websites, but going to the original sources and organizations who serve as custodians for or publishers of a certain book is essential to do first.

You've been addressed and attempts at dialogue granted here and elsewhere in this thread, so you really have nothing new to offer but the same old polemic. You also have no proof that stories in the bible are 100% true, and that no embellishments, fictions, myths and other human creations are woven thru-out. Don't forget that Jesus also used parables to teach, so that such invented stories are fine, just as long as you recognize such and see what principles, morals or truths they are meant to illustrate. Otherwise, you cant always delineate between actual history or fiction, or some blend thereof,...but then again that's not always the point of religious writings, since language is symbolic.

As far as teachings about the kingdom of heaven and religious principles taught by Jesus are concerned, Part 4 in the UB is just as good if not more comprehensive than the canonical gospels, so an expansion on such subjects could only be beneficial and not retarding like a more dogmatic exclusive position taken on assuming that the canonized gospels are the only and final source for Jesus teachings. It is only assumed that all of Jesus teachings are found in those 4 books, but admitted that if all that Jesus said and did could be written, the world could not contain such volumes, so the 'assumption' is short-sighted as well as unnecessary.

As any reasonable person would agree, If you want to judge a text, then read it thoroughly, expound on what you find interesting or wish to challenge, or expand on what concepts are right and tenable. Use your creative intelligence or writing ability to engage in a constructive dialogue. An ad-hoc continuation of condemnation or ridicule proves nothing but the narrow-mindedness of the critic, who if he had a creative mind would use such to his advantage in expanding the discourse, instead of demeaning his own position by being demeaning.

~*~*~

Jesus Talk with Nathaniel (here) is rather illuminating, and the content thereof is open for discussion. This has been shared here already, yet few if any have attempted to address each part of the discourse to test if any part be true.

Our former observations of the 'rock' being the 'revelation' of Jesus as the Son of God, and not necessarily a 'person' or 'religious organization' still holds

 

[journey]

I don't spend any time with the urantia UFO cult garbage for the same reason that I don't spend time studying voodoo. I'm sure that voodoo is very enlightening for you and enhances your cosmic view of the spiritual universe, but it's baloney - just like the urantia book.

 

[patrick jane]

I don't spend any time with the urantia UFO cult garbage for the same reason that I don't spend time studying voodoo. I'm sure that voodoo is very enlightening for you and enhances your cosmic view of the spiritual universe, but it's baloney - just like the urantia book.

But don't you practice acupuncture and black magic ?

 

[freelight]

I don't spend any time with the urantia UFO cult garbage for the same reason that I don't spend time studying voodoo. I'm sure that voodoo is very enlightening for you and enhances your cosmic view of the spiritual universe, but it's baloney - just like the urantia book.

Here & here.

 

[journey]

But don't you practice acupuncture and black magic ?

No, I don't.

 

[Aimiel]

Why do you assume what is being shared here is 'fiction' or 'lies'?

I don't. I know it is. I know the UB was 'channeled' by demons. I know that God's Word is Truth. I know that the UB is lies. Anyone with half a lick of sense knows that, too.

You are letting your preconception and prejudgment of the UB obscure the truth that is being shared.

Sorry, but half-Truth is the same as whole-lies.

The truth pointed out in this passage is very clear, about what the 'rock' is -

The 'rock' Jesus spoke of when He re-named Simon: "Petra," is revelation knowledge, received from The Father directly, obviously. Every soul who enters The Kingdom is capable of receiving this knowledge SOLIDLY down on the inside of them. This is the solid 'rock' Jesus was referring to.

I don't see how assuming the above is 'fiction', since it agrees with Peter that the 'revelation' that Jesus is the Son of God is what 'God' reveals to a person concerning Jesus divine Sonship.

You don't 'see' a lot of things.

Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Your blindness is obvious to everyone but you.

The UB record gives a much more comprehensive explanation and discourse about the kingdom of heaven and many other subjects that the synoptics don't cover, expanding our understanding.

The problem is that the 'light' that is in you is darkness. The 'light' found in the UB is darkness. How GREAT is that darkness!!!

The kingdom is being realized thru our own recognition of sonship with God thru his indwelling spirit (thought-adjuster), as well as thru the Spirit of truth (the Creator-Son's spirit), that was poured out upon the planet after his ascension.

The Holy Spirit is not a 'thought-adjuster' or mind-controller. He is not a puppet-master. He changes hearts. He creates in us a clean heart and renews a right spirit in us. Satan tries to control minds. God gives us freedom in our thought-life. He brings us into His Kingdom. The UB chases people away from It.

'God' is the Universal Father of all, this is a fundamental original truth, from which all else derives and has its relation to. (The Universal Father being the First Source and Center of all creation).

God is not the author of confusion. Your UB god, named: "Jebus," offers nothing BUT confusion.

The kingdom of heaven is realized in the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of men, a community founded and operating by loving service.

But only through The Blood of Christ is His Kingdom available. That is the ONLY way to be born again. Without His Blood there is NO forgiveness of sin.

 

[freelight]

points to reflect on........

points to reflect on........

The 'rock' Jesus spoke of when He re-named Simon: "Petra," is revelation knowledge, received from The Father directly, obviously. Every soul who enters The Kingdom is capable of receiving this knowledge SOLIDLY down on the inside of them. This is the solid 'rock' Jesus was referring to.

Uh,....redundant,...passages and commentary on what the 'rock' is have clearly been expounded on, so the above does nothing but repeat whats already been shared.

Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

We've shared UB passages on spiritual rebirth already,....of course spiritual things are spiritually discerned, and being born of the Spirit is the entrance or doorway into the spiritual kingdom. Remember, that kingdom comprises a brotherhood of those recognizing their sonship with God, having God as their Father.

The 'light' found in the UB is darkness. How GREAT is that darkness!!!

Light, truth, beauty, logic, goodness....is present wherever it is being shared, and the papers do well to share such divine values, meanings and concepts quite wonderfully....expounding upon science, philosophy and religion, expanding man's consciousness Godward. Light only tends to more light and eternal progress.

The Holy Spirit is not a 'thought-adjuster' or mind-controller. He is not a puppet-master. He changes hearts. He creates in us a clean heart and renews a right spirit in us. Satan tries to control minds. God gives us freedom in our thought-life.

You're still operating under a misconception, mistaken understanding of what the 'thought-adjuster' is that indwells our mind, for it is not a 'controller' in the sense you are assuming, since our 'thought-adjuster' (a pre-personal fragment of the Universal Father himself) is an indwelling guide, light, pure spirit who which allows the full range and freedom of choice, never coercing or 'forcing' us to do anything. The principle of 'free will' is ever heralded and exalted even to a near sovereign status, since God ever honors our freedom of choice, even if that choice is for the distintegration (death) of our soul, if we utterly and finally reject the gift of eternal life or immortality. Make no mistake,...the 'thought-adjuster' (God) who indwells us gives us full freedom of choice, sovereignty of will, while it remains as 'pure spirit',...the very will of God. God honors our choosing. We can either partner with the indwelling spirit, or ultimately divide company, in which the 'spirit-monitor' would return to God, while the soul forfeiting its life-potential and survival by completely and finally choosing to reject eternal life....is dissolved.

See here, here.

God within man, the Thought Adjuster (there are 5 whole papers devoted specifically to the TAs)

He brings us into His Kingdom. The UB chases people away from It.

The UB glorifies God and Jesus, and certainly proclaims his will and his kingdom. To assume the UB chases people away from the kingdom is gross ignorance. The reality of God is omnipresent and a very individual spirit-fragment of the Father himself indwells the minds of mortals,...I think that's pretty awesome to consider. A 'thought-adjuster' is just a technical term for this indwelling fragment of pure spirit. Other names for this 'spirit' are 'mystery monitors', 'Father-fragments', 'pilot-lights'

God is not the author of confusion. Your UB god, named: "Jebus," offers nothing BUT confusion.

No confusion here.

But only through The Blood of Christ is His Kingdom available. That is the ONLY way to be born again. Without His Blood there is NO forgiveness of sin.

We've already full addressed the concept of 'blood sacrifice and atonement' here, here, here.

From the Aquarian Gospel see here.

 

[Aimiel]

Uh,....redundant,...passages and commentary on what the 'rock' is have clearly been expounded on, so the above does nothing but repeat whats already been shared.

Arguments against Truth revealed quite simply don't stand, simply because they're un-true.

We've shared UB passages on spiritual rebirth already,....of course spiritual things are spiritually discerned, and being born of the Spirit is the entrance or doorway into the spiritual kingdom.

Yes, but the UB description of born again isn't comparable to Scriptural re-birth. Without The Blood of Jesus, it just doesn't happen.

Remember, that kingdom comprises a brotherhood of those recognizing their sonship with God, having God as their Father.

The Kingdom is those whose garments have been washed in The Blood of The Lamb.

Light, truth, beauty, logic, goodness....is present wherever it is being shared, and the papers do well to share such divine values, meanings and concepts quite wonderfully....expounding upon science, philosophy and religion, expanding man's consciousness Godward. Light only tends to more light and eternal progress.

The 'light' that is in the UB is nothing but deep black darkness.

You're still operating under a misconception, mistaken understanding of what the 'thought-adjuster' is that indwells our mind, for it is not a 'controller' in the sense you are assuming, since our 'thought-adjuster' (a pre-personal fragment of the Universal Father himself) is an indwelling guide, light, pure spirit who which allows the full range and freedom of choice, never coercing or 'forcing' us to do anything.

Your description 'seems' right, but it is predicated upon lies, ergo: it is lies.

The principle of 'free will' is ever heralded and exalted even to a near sovereign status, since God ever honors our freedom of choice, even if that choice is for the distintegration (death) of our soul, if we utterly and finally reject the gift of eternal life or immortality. Make no mistake,...the 'thought-adjuster' (God) who indwells us gives us full freedom of choice, sovereignty of will, while it remains as 'pure spirit',...the very will of God. God honors our choosing. We can either partner with the indwelling spirit, or ultimately divide company, in which the 'spirit-monitor' would return to God, while the soul forfeiting its life-potential and survival by completely and finally choosing to reject eternal life....is dissolved.

True. What you do with Jesus' Blood decides your fate. If you drink It, you have His Life in you. If you trample It under your feet, you're guilty of His Blood.

The UB glorifies God and Jesus, and certainly proclaims his will and his kingdom.

The false Christ portrayed in the UB is NOT Jesus, it is Jebus, an imaginary god who doesn't exist.

To assume the UB chases people away from the kingdom is gross ignorance.

No, it's obvious Truth; but only to those whose names are written in The Lamb's Book of Life.

The reality of God is omnipresent and a very individual spirit-fragment of the Father himself indwells the minds of mortals,...I think that's pretty awesome to consider.

It doesn't mean anything, if you're not born again, washed in The Blood.

A 'thought-adjuster' is just a technical term for this indwelling fragment of pure spirit. Other names for this 'spirit' are 'mystery monitors', 'Father-fragments', 'pilot-lights'

Demon spirits, masquerading as angels of light. :duh:

No confusion here.

:nono:

 

[TulipBee]

Pure fiction. 100% lies.

If Jesus said all the things UB said then why didn't the apostles write like they've been told?

 

[Aimiel]

So true!

 

[Caino]

In the original gospel, before Peter and Paul taught their new gospel, God was already forgiving just because he's that kind of God. No sacrifices required.

These guys don't even know their own bibles, they are confused.


Luke 7:48



47"For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little." 48Then He said to her, "Your sins have been forgiven." 49Those who were reclining at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this man who even forgives sins?"…



Also, Peter, the so called rock, would deny Jesus several times after he was supposedly made "the rock."

The church has exploited the out of context interpretation of the whole exchange in order to establish it's power.

The UB makes much more sense than the Bible books.

 

[Caino]

If Jesus said all the things UB said then why didn't the apostles write like they've been told?

That's a legititame and good question. You will notice that Jesus himself left NO writings but why? Well, in the Urantia revelation we have the reason. In the pre-incarnate instructions given to Michael he was told not to leave any writings behind and the explanation as to why:

" To the end that you may not unnecessarily contribute to the creation of subsequent stereotyped systems of Urantia religious beliefs or other types of nonprogressive religious loyalties, we advise you still further: Leave no writings behind you on the planet. Refrain from all writing upon permanent materials; enjoin your associates to make no images or other likenesses of yourself in the flesh. See that nothing potentially idolatrous is left on the planet at the time of your departure."​

Jesus established a spiritual kingdom, NOT a Christian religion.


Who write the gospels?

http://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-121-the-times-of-michaels-bestowal?criteria="previous written records"#U121_8_0

The apostles were of the belief that Jesus would "soon return" so they weren't as concerned about writing things down. It wasn't until much later, after Paul's new gospel teaching had influenced the recollections of Jesus had begun to influence peoples memory of him.

 

[Caino]

One of the things Jesus did during the "40 days" was return to the boat shop where he had worked for so long as a carpenter to destroy anything that we might turn into a fetish after he left.


136:4.2 "The first thing Jesus did, after thinking through the general plan of co-ordinating his program with John's movement, was to review in his mind the instructions of Immanuel. Carefully he thought over the advice given him concerning his methods of labor, and that he was to leave no permanent writing on the planet. Never again did Jesus write on anything except sand. On his next visit to Nazareth, much to the sorrow of his brother Joseph, Jesus destroyed all of his writing that was preserved on the boards about the carpenter shop, and which hung upon the walls of the old home. And Jesus pondered well over Immanuel's advice pertaining to his economic, social, and political attitude toward the world as he should find it."

 

[patrick jane]

In the original gospel, before Peter and Paul taught their new gospel, God was already forgiving just because he's that kind of God. No sacrifices required.

These guys don't even know their own bibles, they are confused.


Luke 7:48



47"For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little." 48Then He said to her, "Your sins have been forgiven." 49Those who were reclining at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this man who even forgives sins?"…



Also, Peter, the so called rock, would deny Jesus several times after he was supposedly made "the rock."

The church has exploited the out of context interpretation of the whole exchange in order to establish it's power.

The UB makes much more sense than the Bible books.

Duh, Caino, God and Jesus have the power to forgive sins and they did before the cross and before grace. You didn't find a new quote in the Bible that we didn't already know.

 

[TulipBee]

That's a legititame and good question. You will notice that Jesus himself left NO writings but why? Well, in the Urantia revelation we have the reason. In the pre-incarnate instructions given to Michael he was told not to leave any writings behind and the explanation as to why:

" To the end that you may not unnecessarily contribute to the creation of subsequent stereotyped systems of Urantia religious beliefs or other types of nonprogressive religious loyalties, we advise you still further: Leave no writings behind you on the planet. Refrain from all writing upon permanent materials; enjoin your associates to make no images or other likenesses of yourself in the flesh. See that nothing potentially idolatrous is left on the planet at the time of your departure."​

Jesus established a spiritual kingdom, NOT a Christian religion.


Who write the gospels?

http://truthbook.com/urantia-book/p...?criteria="previous written records"#U121_8_0

The apostles were of the belief that Jesus would "soon return" so they weren't as concerned about writing things down. It wasn't until much later, after Paul's new gospel teaching had influenced the recollections of Jesus had begun to influence peoples memory of him.

You said the bible is full of errors and yet you think I'll believe on your new claims of the real truths.

 

[Caino]

Duh, Caino, God and Jesus have the power to forgive sins and they did before the cross and before grace. You didn't find a new quote in the Bible that we didn't already know.

I'm just pointing out that in the original gospel salvation was by faith, forgiveness was by repentance, not conditional to killing Jesus.
It should be obvious that Jesus didn't go around town teaching "Christ and him crucified" for the sins of man. That was a belief already in existence in the Pagan world. In the evolution of Judaism they had already adopted the belief that there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood." Mans pride prevents him from confessing and facing his sin and second, asking and receiving forgivness and in turn forgiving others.

 

[freelight]

Sources for Jeus sayings and doings.....

Sources for Jeus sayings and doings.....

If Jesus said all the things UB said then why didn't the apostles write like they've been told?

Not following your question here.

Part 4 clearly explains what sources were used for its description of Jesus and his ministry, - see Paper 120 and 121 here (index page)...also the online study edition here.
All human record-sources and language concepts available were employed in the rendering, with assistance of the memory-reserves of the mid-wayers and planetary records when human sources fell inadequate. These are clearly explained. The sayings of Jesus are clearly expounded upon and paraphrased in order to communicate most optimally in the English language. Sayings attributed to Jesus stand upon their own meaning and integrity, and in the order of translation are naturally 'paraphrased'.

Skeptics may question even the canonical gospels as we not really knowing who wrote them, beyond what is traditionally 'assumed' or merely 'ascribed', - the papers make some interesting notes on the 4 gospels and their 'authorship' towards the end of paper 121.

The Gospel (Good News)

You said the bible is full of errors and yet you think I'll believe on your new claims of the real truths.

Many claim the Bible is full of errors, or is the invention of man, so this may also go for any other religious text assumed to be 'inspired', being a product of the religious community for which it was written. Any story, whether 'true' or 'fictional' (or a mixture thereof) is still 'interpreted' by way of analogy or metaphor, if its communicating anything of religious significance or meaning. A book or collection of books is to be judged by its own terms, meaning and value, contextually speaking. Anyone who has read any significant portion of the papers and its philosophy would understand this. These insights, truths and observations are not hidden, since the text is freely available to remedy any ignorance on the matter.

 

[freelight]

Arguments against Truth revealed quite simply don't stand, simply because they're un-true.Yes, but the UB description of born again isn't comparable to Scriptural re-birth. Without The Blood of Jesus, it just doesn't happen.The Kingdom is those whose garments have been washed in The Blood of The Lamb.The 'light' that is in the UB is nothing but deep black darkness.Your description 'seems' right, but it is predicated upon lies, ergo: it is lies.True. What you do with Jesus' Blood decides your fate. If you drink It, you have His Life in you. If you trample It under your feet, you're guilty of His Blood.The false Christ portrayed in the UB is NOT Jesus, it is Jebus, an imaginary god who doesn't exist.No, it's obvious Truth; but only to those whose names are written in The Lamb's Book of Life.It doesn't mean anything, if you're not born again, washed in The Blood.Demon spirits, masquerading as angels of light. :duh::nono:

:carryon: