The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[journey]

Already addressed the issue of UFO's and 'cult' associations here. You remain willfully ignorant.

A discussion requires the intelligent effort to first educate yourself on the material so you can actually engage an informed discussion. Unfortunately few here among your 'ilk' have managed that.

pj

You have to remember that I don't view you as an authority figure on anything, and I have no respect of any kind for the urantia UFO cult junk. There's no way that I'll spend my time reading urantia drivel. I would better spend my time going to a large gravel parking lot and turning each piece of gravel over so that it could sun on the other side. The urantia material might be fun for lunatics, so I'll pass.

 

[journey]

The urantia UFO cult members are lost and without the real Jesus Christ in their lives. Salvation is what you need:

Romans 10:17 KJV So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:8-10 KJV But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You have to remember that I don't view you as an authority figure on anything, and I have no respect of any kind for the urantia UFO cult junk. There's no way that I'll spend my time reading urantia drivel. I would better spend my time going to a large gravel parking lot and turning each piece of gravel over so that it could sun on the other side. The urantia material might be fun for lunatics, so I'll pass.

Your opinion is the, "Right opinion!" Freelight likes to think that,
he has an "uncanny" ability to 'sway' the ignorant over to his
way of thinking! No, "True Believer" who is in the "Body of Christ"
needs to/ought to dabble in this, "Occultist material!" It HAS been
called a "UFO Cult" in the Internet! Caino and Freelight will deny
this but, none the less?

It's just another 'Scientology' type of belief system! If one is
interested in Scientology, it's just a hop, skip, and a jump away
from The Urantia book/papers! Their so close, they could be, 1st
cousins??

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The urantia UFO cult members are lost and without the real Jesus Christ in their lives. Salvation is what you need:

Romans 10:17 KJV So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:8-10 KJV But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Yep!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Talk to Caino, Freelight, or Zeke if you're interested in getting
involved with a Sci-Fi sort of cultish, Twilight Zone, kind of
rubbish? Frankly, I find it boring!

 

[Caino]

The Urantia Book

Paper 89

Sin, Sacrifice, and Atonement​

(974.1) 89:0.1 PRIMITIVE man regarded himself as being in debt to the spirits, as standing in need of redemption. As the savages looked at it, in justice the spirits might have visited much more bad luck upon them. As time passed, this concept developed into the doctrine of sin and salvation. The soul was looked upon as coming into the world under forfeit — original sin. The soul must be ransomed; a scapegoat must be provided. The head-hunter, in addition to practicing the cult of skull worship, was able to provide a substitute for his own life, a scapeman.

(974.2) 89:0.2 The savage was early possessed with the notion that spirits derive supreme satisfaction from the sight of human misery, suffering, and humiliation. At first, man was only concerned with sins of commission, but later he became exercised over sins of omission. And the whole subsequent sacrificial system grew up around these two ideas. This new ritual had to do with the observance of the propitiation ceremonies of sacrifice. Primitive man believed that something special must be done to win the favor of the gods; only advanced civilization recognizes a consistently even-tempered and benevolent God. Propitiation was insurance against immediate ill luck rather than investment in future bliss. And the rituals of avoidance, exorcism, coercion, and propitiation all merge into one another. UB 1955​

http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-89-sin-sacrifice-and-atonement​

 

[Caino]

We've already refuted the blood-atonement doctrine earlier, in many places. Edgar Jones here has an interesting thesis showing Paul to be the originator of the 'Eucharist' with its blood-atonement emphasis, while this 'ceremony' was later incorporated (written) into the gospels.

The UB presents Jesus as incorporating this ritual as a 'remembrance supper', a physical and spiritual sharing of God's Life in the heavenly kingdom, we living that kingdom here in the physical world. The emblems of 'water/wine' and 'bread' are symbolic of the life substance, so these are shared among the company of God. This can surely be acted out without a concept of 'vicarious sacrifice', for it is the outpouring of God's life thru Jesus in the very fact that he 'bestowed' himself to us in the flesh and ministered, and poured out the Spirit of truth after his resurrection. These are all heralded in the papers as part of the good news.

It could be that Paul knew of a tradition of Jesus 'rembrance meal', and then invested the cup of wine with being 'blood', in some kind of atoning/redeemer manner, in his own gospel-teaching, putting in that added element, then this was later infused into the gospel records. According to the papers, there was this 'memorial observance', but its tokens do not include the concept of 'blood-atonement' for sins, but life-nourishment of the Spirit. In any case, it is the Spirit that gives life, whether you believe in a blood-sacrifice or not (again its principle can be rejected). The key here is that Jesus gave his life as a love-offering, and was faithful to the end to the Father's will, showing us how to live, modelling the perfect 'religion' that we are to adopt. The UB emphasizes the 'religion of Jesus', HOW he lived, as our model to emulate, living the life of faith.



pj

Freelight you should repost that video here that you had on FB from the Rabi who explains how very different Christianity is from Judaism.

It's amazing to me that Jews actually believe they will return to practicing the old laws of sacrifice when the temple is rebuilt and the Jewish Messiah finally comes.

 

[Caino]

7. Nature of Cultism​

(965.5) 87:7.1 The cult type of social organization persisted because it provided a symbolism for the preservation and stimulation of moral sentiments and religious loyalties. The cult grew out of the traditions of “old families” and was perpetuated as an established institution; all families have a cult of some sort. Every inspiring ideal grasps for some perpetuating symbolism — seeks some technique for cultural manifestation which will insure survival and augment realization — and the cult achieves this end by fostering and gratifying emotion.

(965.6) 87:7.2 From the dawn of civilization every appealing movement in social culture or religious advancement has developed a ritual, a symbolic ceremonial. The more this ritual has been an unconscious growth, the stronger it has gripped its devotees. The cult preserved sentiment and satisfied emotion, but it has always been the greatest obstacle to social reconstruction and spiritual progress.

(965.7) 87:7.3 Notwithstanding that the cult has always retarded social progress, it is regrettable that so many modern believers in moral standards and spiritual ideals have no adequate symbolism — no cult of mutual support — nothing to belong to. But a religious cult cannot be manufactured; it must grow. And those of no two groups will be identical unless their rituals are arbitrarily standardized by authority.

(965.8) 87:7.4 The early Christian cult was the most effective, appealing, and enduring of any ritual ever conceived or devised, but much of its value has been destroyed in a scientific age by the destruction of so many of its original underlying tenets. The Christian cult has been devitalized by the loss of many fundamental ideas.

(965.9) 87:7.5 In the past, truth has grown rapidly and expanded freely when the cult has been elastic, the symbolism expansile. Abundant truth and an adjustable cult have favored rapidity of social progression. A meaningless cult vitiates religion when it attempts to supplant philosophy and to enslave reason; a genuine cult grows.

(966.1) 87:7.6 Regardless of the drawbacks and handicaps, every new revelation of truth has given rise to a new cult, and even the restatement of the religion of Jesus must develop a new and appropriate symbolism. Modern man must find some adequate symbolism for his new and expanding ideas, ideals, and loyalties. This enhanced symbol must arise out of religious living, spiritual experience. And this higher symbolism of a higher civilization must be predicated on the concept of the Fatherhood of God and be pregnant with the mighty ideal of the brotherhood of man.

(966.2) 87:7.7 The old cults were too egocentric; the new must be the outgrowth of applied love. The new cult must, like the old, foster sentiment, satisfy emotion, and promote loyalty; but it must do more: It must facilitate spiritual progress, enhance cosmic meanings, augment moral values, encourage social development, and stimulate a high type of personal religious living. The new cult must provide supreme goals of living which are both temporal and eternal — social and spiritual.

(966.3) 87:7.8 No cult can endure and contribute to the progress of social civilization and individual spiritual attainment unless it is based on the biologic, sociologic, and religious significance of the home. A surviving cult must symbolize that which is permanent in the presence of unceasing change; it must glorify that which unifies the stream of ever-changing social metamorphosis. It must recognize true meanings, exalt beautiful relations, and glorify the good values of real nobility.

(966.4) 87:7.9 But the great difficulty of finding a new and satisfying symbolism is because modern men, as a group, adhere to the scientific attitude, eschew superstition, and abhor ignorance, while as individuals they all crave mystery and venerate the unknown. No cult can survive unless it embodies some masterful mystery and conceals some worthful unattainable. Again, the new symbolism must not only be significant for the group but also meaningful to the individual. The forms of any serviceable symbolism must be those which the individual can carry out on his own initiative, and which he can also enjoy with his fellows. If the new cult could only be dynamic instead of static, it might really contribute something worth while to the progress of mankind, both temporal and spiritual.

(966.5) 87:7.10 But a cult — a symbolism of rituals, slogans, or goals — will not function if it is too complex. And there must be the demand for devotion, the response of loyalty. Every effective religion unerringly develops a worthy symbolism, and its devotees would do well to prevent the crystallization of such a ritual into cramping, deforming, and stifling stereotyped ceremonials which can only handicap and retard all social, moral, and spiritual progress. No cult can survive if it retards moral growth and fails to foster spiritual progress. The cult is the skeletal structure around which grows the living and dynamic body of personal spiritual experience — true religion.

(966.6) 87:7.11 [Presented by a Brilliant Evening Star of Nebadon.]

 

[Zeke]

Talk to Caino, Freelight, or Zeke if you're interested in getting
involved with a Sci-Fi sort of cultish, Twilight Zone, kind of
rubbish? Frankly, I find it boring!

The Babylonian programming has silenced the more excellent way in you:shut:, none so in-slaved as those who think they are free:sigh:.

 

[Zeke]

If one thinks about it, its a step backwards exalting the ancient primitive concept of 'blood-sacrifice' anyways, besides the FACT that the shed physical blood of an animal OR a man (or god-man for that matter) has no power to effect a change in a person, beyond what an individual invests thru 'faith' in the act or symbology of it, since one still has to individually repent for his own sins, and 're-turn' to 'God'. Repentance is the way, no matter what other accessories, conceptual frames or methodologies you add to this fundamental gestures.

Again,...it is thru 'faith' that there is supposed to be any 'effect' anyways, even if we dismiss the 'blood-atonement' concept and its efficacy. Faith in the eternal goodness of God as Our Father is fundamental.


pj

The power of myth, a powerful tool when used wisely to grow and reach for the ultimate faith in self, though a higher force is involved it should only except our dependent faith for awhile, flight is never experienced until we leave the nest, the source/force is just a mature version of us.

 

[Caino]

The Babylonian programming has silenced the more excellent way in you:shut:, none so in-slaved as those who think they are free:sigh:.

He finds it boring but the Kiwi spends so much time trolling the thread????

 

[freelight]

Repentance is the essential key..........

Repentance is the essential key..........

Freelight you should repost that video here that you had on FB from the Rabi who explains how very different Christianity is from Judaism.

Ah, I don't recall posting such on FB, unless it was a long time back. Perhaps you're referring to a video I posted on this in another thread here on TOL, concerning the supposed messianic prophecies attributed to Jesus by Christians. In any case, the differences between Judaism and Christianity would make a wonderful thread

Here is a lecture on the differences between Judaism and Christianity by Rabbi M. Skobac. I haven't listened to this whole lecture yet, but have listened to others of his. However, would like to keep video shares (at least Youtube inbedded videos) here mainly on the UB :thumb:

Orthodox Jewish perspective and qualifications of who will be THEIR Messiah here

It is quite CLEAR that an orthodox Jewish interpretation, expectation and the rules that qualify a person to be the Jewish Messiah is VERY different than the later developed Christian metamorphosis. This is why the passion for Jewish anti-missionary movements persist, because Jesus irrefutabely did NOT meet those requirements. This is just a fact, no matter what 'spin' is put on it by any later 'innovations'.

It's amazing to me that Jews actually believe they will return to practicing the old laws of sacrifice when the temple is rebuilt and the Jewish Messiah finally comes.

Well,....we have different views on this within Judaism,...only the strict die-heard Orthodox Jews hold that animal sacrifices will be returned, while conservative and reform branches are more liberal, or do not agree with a return of the blood-sacrifices. So its a mixed bag here, but the 'true to the book' devotees appear to most zealous for this. As we've shared,...the PROBLEM here is that the Messiah is generally expected to have returned and be ruling during the operation of the 3rd temple, so the Christian view that Jesus was the Lamb of God that already shed his blood to atone for sins, once for all time, will be contradicted with a continuation of blood-sacrifice, and things get even more 'messy' as far as eschatology goes. Thank goodness for 'spin' - in any case,....we've already covered the insufficiency of blood-atonement in modern times, as that was a primitive concept, and no longer holds, as even modern day Jews are doing well without, they being brought near to God by prayer, repentance, good works, etc....these proving themselves to be 'sufficient' without any animal or person having to spill their blood. Blood-sacrifice can be rejected on principle alone.

I could probably hammer this home by making another thread on "Atonement without blood", but that's another project.



pj

 

[freelight]

'Learning' includes 'earning'...........

'Learning' includes 'earning'...........

He finds it boring but the Kiwi spends so much time trolling the thread????

It is odd that some here have rather strange obsessions, all the time refusing to educate themselves, having only presumptions, pointification and bigotry. Shooting blanks from the sidelines is easy;.... jumping into the trenches after 'earning' the right to engage in discussion, well...that takes too much work.



pj

 

[Caino]

Sorry Freelight, I thought it was you that put this on FB:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvpD3FFa_0Y

 

[journey]

It is odd that some here have rather strange obsessions, all the time refusing to educate themselves, having only presumptions, pointification and bigotry. Shooting blanks from the sidelines is easy;.... jumping into the trenches after 'earning' the right to engage in discussion, well...that takes too much work.



pj

You don't get it - the urantia UFO cult material isn't worth any effort. We spend our time with the REAL THING - the HOLY BIBLE. Cheap fiction imitations are a waste of time and effort, especially considering that the urantia UFO cult material is ridiculous. There are many more productive things that one can do with their time.

 

[journey]

There is NO redemption, atonement, or Salvation without blood for the people of this age. The ONLY way today is the perfect sacrifice made by the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the Cross.

Ephesians 1:6-7 KJV To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Colossians 1:12-14 KJV Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The Babylonian programming has silenced the more excellent way in you:shut:, none so in-slaved as those who think they are free:sigh:.

Yeah, but look at what the "Martian programming" has done
to you, Caino, an Freelight?

Don't get me wrong, some of my best friends are from other
planets, dimensions, and solar systems! I also have a good
relationship with a family of "Big foots!" I once took a ride on
the back of the "Loch ness monster!"

 

[Zeke]

Yeah, but look at what the "Martian programming" has done
to you, Caino, an Freelight?

Don't get me wrong, some of my best friends are from other
planets, dimensions, and solar systems! I also have a good
relationship with a family of "Big foots!" I once took a ride on
the back of the "Loch ness monster!"

Nothing to get, You forgot talking snakes and a myriad of other examples that expose the foundation of what you believe in, which is based on the same type of ride.

 

[freelight]

Our Jewish brothers/sisters.........

Our Jewish brothers/sisters.........

Sorry Freelight, I thought it was you that put this on FB:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvpD3FFa_0Y

I dont recall, but that's Rabbi Skobac again

Rabbi Tovia Singer also is on the front lines defending the Jewish faith.

The UB offers a consistent view within its own cosmology, of the mission and teaching of Jesus, proclaiming the goodnews of the kingdom, founded on the unifying principle of the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man, the new birth of the Spirit in man, inspiring him to live the religion of Jesus, fulfilling the will of God.

The UB remains true to its principles.

One must keep asking, keep seeking and keep knocking to enjoy the rewards of earnest research, as an ongoing adventure of faith.



pj

 

[freelight]

Speaking of 'programs'.....

Speaking of 'programs'.....

Yeah, but look at what the "Martian programming" has done
to you, Caino, an Freelight?

Here first.

As far as 'programming' goes, you ought to look into your own 'belief-system', and see how much 'programming' is involved there. Better yet, are you courageous enough to continually research and question your present beliefs, opinions, assumptions....in the event that more light, revelation or truth is available to change or modify your present conclusions? If not, you are in no position to learn, progress or receive anything beyond your 'mental box', and that is no better than a 'golden calf' because its given a false sense of value, which can never hold as a finality of truth, since 'revelation' is 'progressive. A finite mind can barely wrap itself around infinity, much less comprehend in full what is beyond it.

Don't get me wrong, some of my best friends are from other
planets, dimensions, and solar systems! I also have a good
relationship with a family of "Big foots!" I once took a ride on
the back of the "Loch ness monster!"

How bout a more important subject that the UB expounds on, like doing the will of God?

1:1.2 The Universal Father never imposes any form of arbitrary recognition, formal worship, or slavish service upon the intelligent will creatures of the universes. The evolutionary inhabitants of the worlds of time and space must of themselves—in their own hearts—recognize, love, and voluntarily worship him. The Creator refuses to coerce or compel the submission of the spiritual free wills of his material creatures. The affectionate dedication of the human will to the doing of the Father’s will is man’s choicest gift to God; in fact, such a consecration of creature will constitutes man’s only possible gift of true value to the Paradise Father. In God, man lives, moves, and has his being; there is nothing which man can give to God except this choosing to abide by the Father’s will, and such decisions, effected by the intelligent will creatures of the universes, constitute the reality of that true worship which is so satisfying to the love-dominated nature of the Creator Father.

The chief motiviation of life itself, as inspired by the divine spirit in man, is to do and fulfill the will of God (love). This message is fundamental and consistent in the papers. Such truths shared therein far outweigh your brash attempts at ridicule and false equivocations. You might do well to recognize and appreciate such truths.



pj