The Joys of Catholicism

[clefty]

Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets.

and to you fulfilling the speed limit abolishes it for the driver behind you...despite His “THINK NOT”...but you do...

Since the law and prophets were about Jesus, of course there were changes.

already noted...to the ministration, its administration, and its application...but NOT to the Sabbath being every day or another day...

What don't you get that Jesus is the Lamb and no more lamb sacrifices were needed after Jesus?

got it...no temple either...just like between temple times in the OT...Sabbath and dietary laws were still kept...

That is in your false thinking to defend your false beliefs.

I merely provided evidence to show that what you claimed “He is sacrificed a billion times” is NOT what Romans teach.

You can't get around the truth. The Catholics believe that the real flesh and blood is in the wafter.

that was NOT the issue but that you claimed they taught “He is sacrificed a billion times”

Sabbaths were a shadow of Jesus.

and still you continue to misrepresent what Paul wrote just like the lying jews did of Stephen...

Paul wrote (Col 2:17 for anyone brave enough to follow this) Sabbaths ARE a shadow even as Heb 10:1 confirms...

If Paul wrote Sabbaths were done away with then he would have perjured himself at his trials...

Jesus says to believe him is to drink his blood and to obey him is to eat his flesh.

That does NOT mean we have to believe we are actually taking in his blood with the wine and with the wafer!

It means just believing his words IS AS DRINKING HIS BLOOD.

Jesus doesn't mean we have to eat a wafer and believe we are eating his flesh to be saved!

Jesus means to obey his commands IS AS EATING HIS FLESH.


Unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, we have no life in us. Jesus tells us the truth, if anyone obeys his word, he will never see death, John 8:51.

Right...Peter understood that by answering “You have the Words of eternal life” John 6:68 and NOT “you have the flesh we must eat”...He understood the lesson that flesh profits NOTHING but it is the Spirit who gives life...

But people do imagine themselves errors and distort...change both times and Law...

 

[God's Truth]

Thanks...got it...

but I haven’t got an answer as to why those suffering with celiac disease get an allergic reaction to gluten if the bread is now actually His flesh...

is the allergen in only the Aristotlian accidents of the bread (what it looks like) and not in its substance?

Or does His flesh itself contain gluten...

Same with wine...if it is now His pure blood does alcohol remain? Does He need a breathalyzer?

Then remains the issue of leavened bread (eastern orthodox...as it was not a passover meal) or unleavened bread (roman rite...despite the passover lamb being killed the NEXT day)

Right, they have a false doctrine and will not repent of it.

 

[God's Truth]

and to you fulfilling the speed limit abolishes it for the driver behind you...despite His “THINK NOT”...but you do...

Your analogies are not from God so stop using them to bear false witness against me.

already noted...to the ministration, its administration, and its application...

got it...no temple either...just like between temple times in the OT...Sabbath and dietary laws were still kept...


I merely provided evidence to show that what you claimed “He is sacrificed a billion times” is NOT what Romans teach.

I speak the truth about the Catholic church. The Catholics call the eucharist a sacrifice. SO STOP SAYING THEY DON'T. I couldn't care any less who denies what it implies or really means.

The CATHOLICS SAY IT IS A SACRIFICE and they say it is a sin to not come to see the sacrifice and take the sacrifice in the wafer.

that was NOT the issue but that you claimed they taught “He is sacrificed a billion times”

That is what the Catholics teachings say.

and still you continue to misrepresent what Paul wrote just like the lying jews did of Stephen...

Jesus is the King and he IS the SON OF GOD, and Jesus did come and make changes!

So you say the Jews were wrong about Jesus saying he was the King?

Paul wrote (Col 2:17 for anyone brave enough to follow this) Sabbaths ARE a shadow even as Heb 10:1 confirms...

If Paul wrote Sabbaths were done away with then he would have perjured himself at his trials...

Shadows are worthless to follow, and Peter and James preached that too!

 

[clefty]

Right, they have a false doctrine and will not repent of it.

Again NOT the issue...yours claiming they teach he is sacrificed over and over again...a billion times even...

THAT is NOT what they teach as I offered to citations on what they do teach...

Sacrificed ONCE...suspended in time...unbloodied...despite wine turning to blood

 

[clefty]

Your analogies are not from God so stop using them to bear false witness against me.

Your every day all day Sabbaths are not from Yah...

Which you arrive at thinking His fulfilling Law...changed the seventh day of rest after six days of work into a Jesus rest everyday...

Ever day all day rest? Sounds slothful

speak the truth about the Catholic church. The Catholics call the eucharist a sacrifice. SO STOP SAYING THEY DON'T. I couldn't care any less who denies what it implies or really means.

This issue remains your claim they teach He is sacrificed a billion times...

That is false...but you are consistant...

The CATHOLICS SAY IT IS A SACRIFICE and they say it is a sin to not come to see the sacrifice and take the sacrifice in the wafer.

again NOT the issue...but your claim they teach He is sacrificed a billion times...

That is what the Catholics teachings say.

NO IT ISNT and I offered two articles for you to read since you dont recall it from your catholic days...

But now you also misrepresent what Paul teaches...

Jesus is the King and he IS the SON OF GOD, and Jesus did come and make changes!

to administration of the IMMUTABLE LAW...even catholics claim it is IMMUTABLE...just applied differently cuz of culture...

So you say the Jews were wrong about Jesus saying he was the King?

no you silly woman...I am saying that the jews were wrong LIKE YOU in claiming Stephen taught Jesus changed the customs delivered to Moses Act 6:13-14

Luke is clear these jews (and YOU) are false witnesses because Stephen did NOT teach that...bacause Jesus did NOT DO that...change the customs Moses delivered...

Shadows are worthless to follow, and Peter and James preached that too!

Peter kept kosher...and compelled Gentiles to live as jews...he also warned of false teachers that misrepresented Christ denying Him...which you do with YOUR every day Sabbath

James expected believing gentiles continue to crowd synagogues every Sabbath to also hear Moses preached...he also wrote of WORKS...to keep faith alive...righteous works His works...not every day all day rest...lol

 

[clefty]

Sabbaths were a shadow of Jesus.

Unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, we have no life in us. Jesus tells us the truth, if anyone obeys his word, he will never see death, John 8:51.

You totally ignored or avoided this list of texts:

Acts 21:24 but he took a vow to prove he walks orderly and keeps the law

Acts 24: 12-14 he caused NO disputes...you think he could do that teaching Sabbath is now everyday? LOL but he was worshipping the God of his fathers according to the Way a Sabbath keeping sect believing ALL things OT...no NT yet...

Acts 25: 8 neither against the law of the jews (given to Israel) or the temple did he offend...I think teaching an everyday Sabbath would offend at least some Jews...

Acts 26: 20 Jews and Gentiles should repent turn to Yah and do works befitting repentance...you think YOUR everyday Sabbath is a work He established?

Acts 28:17 he claims to jews he did NOTHING against our people or the customs of our fathers...you think YOUR everyday Sabbath would NOT be against the pious zealous jews or their ancient customs?

Acts 28:28 Paul concludes that salvation of Yah has been sent to the Gentiles and they will hear it...so why would they need salvation if the Law was NOT to them? It was...and they crowded the synagogues every Sabbath...as James expected

Acts 16: 20 what were the gentile Philippians complaining? “They teach customs which are not lawful for us Romans to receive and observe” you think Romans would refuse Sunday Ham? Of course not but that was NOT on the table...

Acts 5: 40 you really think zealous jews wanting to KILL the apostles would agree with Gamaliel’s advice to leave them alone because teaching “the Sabbath is over...it’s every day all day now...let’s eat dogs” might actually be of Yah? LOL

But you would have Paul teach otherwise in his letters...letters that could be submitted at his trials as evidence he was lying...IF they perjured him...they do not

and yes imagine too if the apostle’s and Paul’s teachings were to eat human flesh and drink human blood...wow

 

[God's Truth]

Again NOT the issue...yours claiming they teach he is sacrificed over and over again...a billion times even...

THAT is NOT what they teach as I offered to citations on what they do teach...

Sacrificed ONCE...suspended in time...unbloodied...despite wine turning to blood

You are wrong it is what they teach or else it would be done once! I don't care if they deny it or not it is what their doctrine implies. I dealt with many in false doctrines and they just deny what their false beliefs really mean and imply.

 

[God's Truth]

Your every day all day Sabbaths are not from Yah...

Which you arrive at thinking His fulfilling Law...changed the seventh day of rest after six days of work into a Jesus rest everyday...

Ever day all day rest? Sounds slothful

What I am saying is from God. The Bible says that the special days are about Jesus and the Sabbath is a shadow and it was a shadow of Jesus and he is the rest and I am put in Jesus so I rest all day every day.

This issue remains your claim they teach He is sacrificed a billion times...

That is false...but you are consistant...

again NOT the issue...but your claim they teach He is sacrificed a billion times...

All people in false doctrines deny what their false doctrines imply.

I will give you some examples of the Catholics false doctrines and what it implies and how they merely deny it.

Catholics: We bow in front of statues.
Me: God says not to bow before the works of your hands.
Catholics: We aren't bowing to the statue, just to who the statue represents.
Me: That is what pagans say they do too when they bow in front of statues.

(See how the Catholics just deny what they are doing?)

Here are more examples:

Catholics: We venerate Mary.
Me: The Bible says not to worship anyone but God.
Catholics: We are not worshiping Mary we are venerating her.
Me: Venerate is a synonym of worship it is the same thing.
Catholics: No it is not.


Do you get it now, cleft?

no you silly woman...I am saying that the jews were wrong LIKE YOU in claiming Stephen taught Jesus changed the customs delivered to Moses Act 6:13-14

You are the one silly because you said the Jews were wrong about Jesus being the King.

You don't even know that Jesus changed the law.

The Jews didn't realize that Jesus is the fulfillment of those law and it is changed because Jesus can change it he made a NEW LAW.

Luke is clear these jews (and YOU) are false witnesses because Stephen did NOT teach that...bacause Jesus did NOT DO that...change the customs Moses delivered...

Jesus says forgiveness is by him---the old law says by doing the purification works of the law.
Jesus teaches faith---the old law taught the purification works of the law!
Jesus says no more eye for eye and tooth for tooth---the old law said eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot!
Jesus says food won't make you unclean---the old law said it did!
Jesus says he worked on the Sabbath and told someone else to carry their bed---the old law said not to work on the Sabbath and don’t carry!
Jesus says not to kill the woman in adultery---but the old law said to stone her!
Jesus says one marriage until death---the old law said three!

Peter kept kosher...and compelled Gentiles to live as jews...he also warned of false teachers that misrepresented Christ denying Him...which you do with YOUR every day Sabbath

Peter and James taught about the shadows.

Peter ACTED OUT OF LINE WITH THE TRUTH because he was AFRAID of the Jews. It was why he denied Jesus three times.

 

[God's Truth]

You totally ignored or avoided this list of texts:

Acts 21:24 but he took a vow to prove he walks orderly and keeps the law

Acts 24: 12-14 he caused NO disputes...you think he could do that teaching Sabbath is now everyday? LOL but he was worshipping the God of his fathers according to the Way a Sabbath keeping sect believing ALL things OT...no NT yet...

Acts 25: 8 neither against the law of the jews (given to Israel) or the temple did he offend...I think teaching an everyday Sabbath would offend at least some Jews...

Acts 26: 20 Jews and Gentiles should repent turn to Yah and do works befitting repentance...you think YOUR everyday Sabbath is a work He established?

Acts 28:17 he claims to jews he did NOTHING against our people or the customs of our fathers...you think YOUR everyday Sabbath would NOT be against the pious zealous jews or their ancient customs?

Acts 28:28 Paul concludes that salvation of Yah has been sent to the Gentiles and they will hear it...so why would they need salvation if the Law was NOT to them? It was...and they crowded the synagogues every Sabbath...as James expected

Acts 16: 20 what were the gentile Philippians complaining? “They teach customs which are not lawful for us Romans to receive and observe” you think Romans would refuse Sunday Ham? Of course not but that was NOT on the table...

Acts 5: 40 you really think zealous jews wanting to KILL the apostles would agree with Gamaliel’s advice to leave them alone because teaching “the Sabbath is over...it’s every day all day now...let’s eat dogs” might actually be of Yah? LOL

But you would have Paul teach otherwise in his letters...letters that could be submitted at his trials as evidence he was lying...IF they perjured him...they do not

and yes imagine too if the apostle’s and Paul’s teachings were to eat human flesh and drink human blood...wow

I already explained to you that the temple laws WERE ENFORCED BY THE PHARISEES!

Just because you obey the old laws for the earthly temple was still standing---IT DOESN'T"T MEAN THEY TAUGHT THE OLD LAW.

 

[clefty]

You are wrong it is what they teach or else it would be done once!

it is done once and one re-enters it with the same divine mysterious magic that turns bread to flesh, 1 and 3, Mary/saints in heaven now, purgatory and forever torment in hell fire of most excruciating pain...

I don't care

I noticed that about you for a lot of things here...

if they deny it or not it is what their doctrine implies.

despite two articles with clearer teaching you still go with what you imagine...perceived implications

I dealt with many in false doctrines and they just deny what their false beliefs really mean and imply.

that does explain a lot...perhaps you picked up some of their tactics?

but your false persecution is a blessing to the rest of us as you merely reveal your error and chase perceived wind mills....romantic but not helpful

in fact hurtful as recovering Catholics often are

 

[God's Truth]

it is done once and one re-enters it with the same divine mysterious magic that turns bread to flesh, 1 and 3, Mary/saints in heaven now, purgatory and forever torment in hell fire of most excruciating pain...


I noticed that about you for a lot of things here...

despite two articles with clearer teaching you still go with what you imagine...perceived implications

I dealt with many in false doctrines and they just deny what their false beliefs really mean and imply.

that does explain a lot...perhaps you picked up some of their tactics?

but your false persecution is a blessing to the rest of us as you merely reveal your error and chase perceived wind mills....romantic but not helpful

in fact hurtful as recovering Catholics often are

What is all this you are saying about me?

You even go against the Catholics.

 

[clefty]

What I am saying is from God.

nope...your Sabbath is everyday...His is seventh day...after six of work...first act of Grace giving us rest before we needed it...

The Bible says that the special days are about Jesus and the Sabbath is a shadow

yup still is...a shadow of good things to come...even still to come

and it was a shadow of Jesus

nope...

and he is the rest and I am put in Jesus so I rest all day every day.

He gives us rest but not everyday all day...that is sloth resting that much without working...if you were put in Jesus you would go where He goes do what He does...and He kept the Sabbath...so should you cuz you within Him...

All people in false doctrines deny what their false doctrines imply.

yeah...like yours implies you can do whatever whenever cuz NEW LAW or something...

I will give you some examples of the Catholics false doctrines and what it implies and how they merely deny it.

Catholics: We bow in front of statues.
Me: God says not to bow before the works of your hands.
Catholics: We aren't bowing to the statue, just to who the statue represents.
Me: That is what pagans say they do too when they bow in front of statues.

(See how the Catholics just deny what they are doing?)

Here are more examples:

Catholics: We venerate Mary.
Me: The Bible says not to worship anyone but God.
Catholics: We are not worshiping Mary we are venerating her.
Me: Venerate is a synonym of worship it is the same thing.
Catholics: No it is not.


Do you get it now, cleft?

that is almost as silly as Jesus is a 24 hour period of time and when we are IN HIM we rest all day every day...no work at all...just rest inside Him now a day and of rest...

People with their imaginations and traditions of men...thinking they can add or take away...


[

You are the one silly because you said the Jews were wrong about Jesus being the King.

never said anything about a king...

You don't even know that Jesus changed the law.

Not the 10 He didnt...

The Jews didn't realize that Jesus is the fulfillment of those law and it is changed because Jesus can change it he made a NEW LAW.

How new? Both love your neighbor and Love Yah are ALREADY IN THE OT...

Please show me where He made seventh day Sabbath an everyday all day event...

Jesus says forgiveness is by him---the old law says by doing the purification works of the law.

Confession then sacrifice...

Jesus teaches faith---the old law taught the purification works of the law!

faith first

Jesus says no more eye for eye and tooth for tooth---the old law said eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot!

Vengeance is Mine...

Jesus says food won't make you unclean---the old law said it did!

Jesus said you were already unclean for thinking you won’t be made unclean...

Jesus says he worked on the Sabbath

to heal and to save...you in a ditch...NOT punch in a time card...

and told someone else to carry their bed---the old law said not to work on the Sabbath and don’t carry!

carrying a bed was not work...and acceptable...you really do think Jesus sinned caused someone else to sin...invalidates Him as perfect sacrifice but a sinner...NICELY DONE

Jesus says not to kill the woman in adultery---but the old law said to stone her!

He didnt say not to kill just let the killer be blameless...

Jesus says one marriage until death---the old law said three!

Moses allowed OT law remains no adultery...

Jesus also said you can kill just don’t get mad?

Jesus also said you can commit adultery just don’t look at a woman with lust?

Peter and James taught about the shadows.

Peter kept kosher and James said believing gentiles would continue to hear Moses EVERY SABBATH...after they didnt eat strangled meat or with blood...

both warned against those that would deceive and twist and be false teachers...

Peter ACTED OUT OF LINE WITH THE TRUTH because he was AFRAID of the Jews. It was why he denied Jesus three times.

That incident might have been another Peter even...the irony that Paul asked why he compel gentiles to live as jews...

 

[clefty]

I already explained to you that the temple laws WERE ENFORCED BY THE PHARISEES!

Peter was clear the Holy Spirit saw NO DISTINCTION between believing jews and believing gentiles....but you wanna say it was cuz they were FORCED by the pharisees? LOL

Just because you obey the old laws for the earthly temple was still standing---IT DOESN'T"T MEAN THEY TAUGHT THE OLD LAW.

James concluded the believing gentiles would continue to hear Moses EVERY SABBATH...

Is why Phillippians were upset they were being taught customs which were not lawful for them being Romans...to receive or observe...

Paul encouraged the Colossians not to let anyone judge them but the body of Christ for keeping new moons and Sabbaths and kosher diet...

Why would fellow gentiles or non believing jews even care if they DID NOT keep them shadows...they wouldn’t they only cared because they did keep them

Defending his life at the trials Paul confirmed he continued to uphold the worship and laws of his forefathers...even teaching the gentiles...you claim he lied now?

Again and again you hold on to jewish myth and false witness that Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered...

 

[God's Truth]

nope...your Sabbath is everyday...His is seventh day...after six of work...first act of Grace giving us rest before we needed it...

Observing days has nothing to do with being saved anymore.

Jesus came and taught the Way of the Spirit.

yup still is...a shadow of good things to come...even still to come

The shadow is of Jesus. Jesus came.

nope...

He gives us rest but not everyday all day...that is sloth resting that much without working...if you were put in Jesus you would go where He goes do what He does...and He kept the Sabbath...so should you cuz you within Him...

Jesus lives inside my heart. He is everywhere I am.

yeah...like yours implies you can do whatever whenever cuz NEW LAW or something...

No cannot do whatever.

that is almost as silly as Jesus is a 24 hour period of time and when we are IN HIM we rest all day every day...no work at all...just rest inside Him now a day and of rest...

The only works that we don't have to do are the purification/ceremonial works of the law, and observing special days was on of the purification laws.

People with their imaginations and traditions of men...thinking they can add or take away...

never said anything about a king...

You false witnessed against me and said I said things that weren't true like the Jews did. So tell me, is Jesus the King of the Jews like the Jews said?

Not the 10 He didnt...

The Sabbath was a shadow. Now just hating is murder, and lusting secretly in your heart is adultery.

How new?

I've shown you many times.

Confession then sacrifice...

faith first

To have faith because Jesus says so is obedience. Hahahahaha

And, not only that, it MUST BE TOGETHER WITH AN ACTION, such a repenting of sins and calling on him.

Vengeance is Mine...
Jesus said you were already unclean for thinking you won’t be made unclean...

No such thing in the Bible.

to heal and to save...you in a ditch...NOT punch in a time card...

Working to take care of your family is---GOOD.

carrying a bed was not work...and acceptable...you really do think Jesus sinned caused someone else to sin...invalidates Him as perfect sacrifice but a sinner...NICELY DONE

That is how evil minds see it.

Jesus came and made a new covenant.

He didnt say not to kill just let the killer be blameless...

That is crazy.

Moses allowed OT law remains no adultery...

Jesus said one marriage.

Jesus also said you can kill just don’t get mad?

That is a twisted way of putting it.

If you would obey Jesus you would have things revealed to you, like you would know anger precedes murder.

Jesus also said you can commit adultery just don’t look at a woman with lust?

Before a man or woman commits adultery, it started in the thought and then desire came to the heart.

both warned against those that would deceive and twist and be false teachers...

You are a strong example of that.

That incident might have been another Peter even...the irony that Paul asked why he compel gentiles to live as jews...

Another Peter?

 

[God's Truth]

Peter was clear the Holy Spirit saw NO DISTINCTION between believing jews and believing gentiles....but you wanna say it was cuz they were FORCED by the pharisees? LOL

Where do you ever get that idea?

James concluded the believing gentiles would continue to hear Moses EVERY SABBATH...

You changed the scripture.

Is why Phillippians were upset they were being taught customs which were not lawful for them being Romans...to receive or observe...

Explain this better.

Paul encouraged the Colossians not to let anyone judge them but the body of Christ for keeping new moons and Sabbaths and kosher diet...

Salvation is not about food and drink and shifting days.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
No, they tried to get them to keep them.

Why would fellow gentiles or non believing jews even care if they DID NOT keep them shadows...they wouldn’t they only cared because they did keep them

The Jews tried to get the Gentiles to obey the law as given to Moses.

Defending his life at the trials Paul confirmed he continued to uphold the worship and laws of his forefathers...even teaching the gentiles...you claim he lied now?

Paul didn't break any law for the temple.

As for you acting like Paul taught the old law for salvation, you are badly mistaken.


Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Again and again you hold on to jewish myth and false witness that Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered...

Nonsense.

 

[clefty]

Observing days has nothing to do with being saved anymore.

It’s that “do My Father’s will” and “follow Me” part...oh and even Paul’s “copy me as I copy Christ”...

Oh and “Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and have the faith OF Yahushua”...

Not just 9 out of 10

And Isaiah writes one day (you know in the new heaven and new earth)...from New moon to new moon Sabbath to Sabbath...

Oh and Heb 4:9 Sabbatismos Sabbath keeping remains...for His people...Not you I guess...

Jesus came and taught the Way of the Spirit.

and that is CONTRARY to His Father’s Will? The Spirit leads you to breaking the Law?!!!

The shadow is of Jesus. Jesus came.

yup and is coming again...

Jesus lives inside my heart. He is everywhere I am.

Begging you to follow Him and keep His Father’s will and stop pretending every day rest is a Sabbath day...

No cannot do whatever.

well so far you cannot do what He did and asked you to do...

The only works that we don't have to do are the purification/ceremonial works of the law, and observing special days was on of the purification laws.

Sabbath was 1 of the 10 silly...instituted BEFORE sin even...such grace to think He gave it before we needed it...

You merely try to keep 9 of the 10...

You false witnessed against me and said I said things that weren't true like the Jews did. So tell me, is Jesus the King of the Jews like the Jews said?

have no clue what you are talking about but understand why you wish to distract from your NOT following Him...His Way but coming up with clever rationalizations to avoid a day off...

The Sabbath was a shadow.

You WANT to be blind...your rebellion is complete...how many times have I shown you Paul wrote the Sabbath IS a shadow...just as Heb 10:1 confirms...

Now just hating is murder, and lusting secretly in your heart is adultery.

duh...because it shows the inside is defiled unclean BEFORE the outside...JUST LIKE WHEN YOU EAT SWINE...

I've shown you many times.

like we can eat dog now?

To have faith because Jesus says so is obedience. Hahahahaha

so you have no free will? Is like saying “to get into this room you must walk in the door” and doing so is obedience? Or statement of fact...

And, not only that, it MUST BE TOGETHER WITH AN ACTION, such a repenting of sins and calling on him.

and following Him His WAY...loving AS HE LOVED...doing His Father’s will...

That is WHY we repent because WE WERE NOT DOING SO...so we turn towards Him to become MORE LIKE HIM...

and that is why we call on Him as He helps us to be more like Him less like our former selves before we knew the Law and were more like the world...less like Him...but NOW...we do as He did...except you...you do man’s traditions...

No such thing in the Bible.

WAIT FOR IT...

Working to take care of your family is---GOOD.

you rationalize everything no wonder you are so proud of yourself...

That is how evil minds see it.

you claimed He broke His Father’s Law...that is SIN

Jesus came and made a new covenant.

Yup...taught it and demonstrated it PRIOR His signing and sealing it...KEEP THAT ok? DO as He DID...cause no changes after testator is dead...

That is crazy.

it is clear...He said go ahead and stone her...but let whoever has no sin kill her...

Jesus said one marriage.

as it was in Eden...you keep forgeting the 10 are descriptions of what life is like WITH HIM...no stealing no lying no killing no adultery...oh yeah Sabbath keeping

That is a twisted way of putting it.

good have your attention...so

If you would obey Jesus you would have things revealed to you, like you would know anger precedes murder.

EXACTLY...because what is already IN YOU makes you unclean...

just like when you eat your bacon what is in you rebellion rationalization false witness deception pride coveting allows you to eat like the world...the pagans even...because they are lawless...like you want to be...

Before a man or woman commits adultery, it started in the thought and then desire came to the heart.

see? You do understand...one is UNCLEAN inwardly FIRST and then accepts the pork...rationalizing rebelling coveting etc

You are a strong example of that.

false persecution is a blessing...so thanks

Another Peter?

Yeah maybe...https://youtu.be/sxDvhDIiVc0

Either way the irony that Paul admits Peter is compelling gentiles to live as jews...hypocritically when he socializes and mixes it up and eats with gentiles...as gentiles do...

Is why people got mad apostles were teaching customs NOT for Romans...you think apostles were teaching Romans to eat pork?

 

[clefty]

Where do you ever get that idea?

Acts 15:7-9”...gave them the Holy Spirit just as He did to us and made NO DISTINCTION between us and them”

One group keeping Sabbath and the other every day all day rest would be quite distinctive as would be one group not eating unclean and the other eating dog...

But Yah couldn’t tell them apart...cuz they all obeyed the SAME LAW JUST LIKE IN THE OT when it was ONE LAW for both native and foreigner...

You changed the scripture.

Did I?

First of all let me remind you that at this time in the book of Acts the only scriptures available was the OT...the gospels had not yet been written down...Paul had not yet written a letter...Possibly Galatians...

Acts 15:19-21 read where James concludes with the 4 requirements for synagogue crowding gentiles to fellowship...ALL 4 ARE IN THE OT for the foreigner...2 of them deal directly with how NOT to strangle the CLEAN animals and drain their blood because NOT doing so would make them UNCLEAN...

James then finalizes the matter reminding all that Moses continues to be read all these generations every Sabbath...is why they appealed to the OT for fellowship guidelines as it is ONE LAW for native and foreigner alike...

You really think they only expected the goyim to keep just those 4 things? So they could steal, lie, murder, covet, dishonor elders, blaspheme His Name Not worship Him?...keep every day Sabbath?

Explain this better.

happily...Act 16:21 recall Paul healed an annoying fortune telling slave girl who spoke the truth of them...this upset her handlers and they went to complain to the magistrates...their complaint and charge was NOT the loss of income from her healing but that these Jews were teaching customs NOT FOR ROMANS...now do you imagine they were upset being taught to worship whenever and eat whatever? Or being taught “jewish” customs...

Salvation is not about food and drink and shifting days.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

EXACTLY...Salvation is NOT...but living saved is...representing Him His Love His WAY is...how else would the world know Him but by our/His fruits...works...

We don’t keep the Law IT KEEPS US...again it’s like an owner’s manual which we follow and do the instructions...NOT to earn the car...but because we already own it...

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

right Sabbath is EXACTLY that...A GIFT from above not having variable ness nor shadow of turning...into your Sabbath of every day rest

No, they tried to get them to keep them.

who the Colossians? Yes they WERE keeping them is why Paul wrote dont worry about those not in the church judging you for doing so...they went from being uncircumcised to circumcised in Christ...becoming citizens of Israel...adopted...grafted in... you are aware that the grafted branch must be MORE LIKE the trunk and does NOT change the trunk yes?

The Jews tried to get the Gentiles to obey the law as given to Moses.

You mean the apostles were teaching the faith OF Yahushua...His WAY...Paul was fearful even that the Galatians were falling back again to their ancient ways and culture of Gaul...Gal 4:10-11

Paul didn't break any law for the temple.

EXACTLY...imagine Paul teaching to all “Sabbath is done...it’s every day now...oh and let’s eat dog”...that is breaking the Law...prosecution jews could have submitted a letter of his saying that but his letters did NOT say that...is why Paul repeatedly said “ I follow our fathers...our laws...”

As for you acting like Paul taught the old law for salvation, you are badly mistaken.

AGAIN PLEASE PAY ATTENTION...the Law does NOT SAVE never did...it points out sin...It was GRACE that He gave instructions and procedures to show how we can become clean again...

His people do NOT do the Law in order to be SAVED...but because they already are...and now are quite peculiar from the world...

GOT IT? We are saved by FAITH in HIM...Who saves...and says go and sin no more...and by grace showed us how...

Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Paul was getting it from those that claimed gentiles MUST be circumcised to be saved...which was NEVER TAUGHT in the OT...as how could anything done to you while an infant save you?...and what saves woman who are not cut?

But if he taught circumcision he would feel persecuted by the Spirit/believers...but to the jew the offense of the cross would cease...is why he wished those troubling jews to be cut off...

Paul was emphasizing the cross is the last shedding of blood...as we are to be circumcised in our hearts to follow Him even to our own cross...uncompromised...

Nonsense.

You claim Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered...Jews claimed Stephen taught that...Luke called them false witnesses cuz Stephen did NOT teach that because Jesus did NOT do that...Acts 6:13-14

He certainly did NOT change Sabbath into every day rest...or teach it is good to earn a living on that Holy day...

 

[clefty]

Paul didn't break any law for the temple.

You are correct. He claims the same multiple times at his trials...

START AT CHAPTER 21 HIS ARREST

What were the charges the Jews accussed Paul with...the same you claim actually...the irony

Verse 28 “men of Israel help this is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people the law and this place...”

Verse 31 “they were seeking to kill him...” you know, for what you too accuse him of...that the law changed, Sabbath is done away with, no need for His festivals anymore, we can eat dogs...

Now please imagine if he taught the joys of Catholicism...3 and 1 god...Peter was holy christ on earth...make images to honor them pray at them...eat His flesh and blood...use Rosary...Mary and all the saints alive in heaven...purgatory...eternal hell fire...the list goes on and on...

Surely the Jews would be offended and accuse him of all that too!! And wish to kill him...

But Paul was able to calm them down by speaking in Hebrew...NOT LATIN...remember they KNOW Paul as the christian killing Pharisee...

However when he got to the part that he admits he was sent to give the message to the Gentiles the jews demanded to kill him...

So what is their charge? Jesus to the gentiles...NOTHING MORE...nothing about Sabbath becoming a man or every day...

Chapter 23 Paul doubles down by stating ONE CHARGE...concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged...all hell broke loose! A commander of the Roman army was concerned they would rip him to shreds right there for that ONE CHARGE...imagine if taught what you claim...dogs are clean to eat...

Verses 29-30 Felix received a letter regarding this prisoner about his being accused regarding jewish law but had NOTHING charged against him worthy of killing...even the commander knew to command his accuser to state before Felix their charges

Paul now in front of Felix claims

Acts 24:12 “...and they neither found me in the temple disputing with anyone nor inciting the crowd, either in the synagogues or in the city...Nor can they prove the things of which they now accuse me...”

Now what were the slanderous jews accusing him of? Back in verse 5 “we have found this man a plague a creator of dissension among all the Jews...a ringleader of a sect...tried to profane temple and we seized him wanting to judge him according to our law.”

BUT what did Paul admit to? Verse 14 “but this I confess to you , that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.”

(Now at this point there was NO NT...no gospels...so of course it all came from the OT...Paul had written some letters that could have been submitted as evidence to his abrogating the Immutable law...NONE WAS PROVIDED as those letters did not abrogate the Law...)

STILL NOTHING about Sabbath being done away with...or we can eat dog now...

Paul continues verse 16 “I...always strive to have a conscience without offense toward God and man...”
He confirms: “Now after many years I came to bring alms and offerings to my nation in the midst of which some jews from Asia found me PURIFIED in the temple NEITHER with a multitude NOR with tumult. They ought to have been here before you to object if they had anything against me...or else let those who are here themselves say if the found any wrongdoing in me while I stood before the council...”

And then Paul admits to ONE CHARGE verse 20 “unless it is for the ONE statement concerning the resurrection of the dead I am being judged by you this day”

STILL NOTHING about Sabbath becoming a man resting every day...



Acts 25:7-8 Jews, (with your desire and inclination) from jerusalem laid many serious complaints against Paul WHICH THEY COULD NOT PROVE

“Neither against the law of the jews nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.”

In fact keep reading to verses 10-11 “I stand at Caesar’s judgement seat where I ought ot be judged. To the Jews I have no wrong...there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me no one can deliver me to them...”

On this claim of innocence he appealed to Caesar...

Now you expect me to believe Paul LIED? Because according to you he taught Sabbath was changed...unclean dogs were made clean and can be eaten...

Even Festus appealed to King Agrippa that Paul did nothing worthy of death but had questions about jewish religion and one Jesus who had died and Paul was thought to be alive...

NOw IMGINE if Paul taught this One was going to rule for 1000 years from Jerusalem...oh wait that is getting ahead of myself...

Again 25: 24-25 Jews wanted him killed for teaching against them which is OPEN INSURRECTION and yet nothing worthy of death was discovered...”for it seems to me unreasonable to send a prisoner and not specify the charges against him”...YAY DUE PROCESS right?

IN FRONT OF AGRIPPA chapter 26

Paul speaks happy the king verse 3 “you are expert in all customs and questions that have to do with Jews” and restates the charges against him verse 6 “...now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made by Yah to our fathers...for this hope’s sake I am accused by the Jews. 8 Why should it be thought incredible by you that Yah raises the dead?”

Paul summarizes his defense that he taught first to jews then to gentiles verse 20 “that they should repent, turn to Yah and do works befitting repentance. 21 FOR THESE REASONS the jews seized me in the temple and tried to kill me...therefore...saying NO OTHER THINGS than those which the prophets and Moses said would come...the Messiah would suffer first to rise form dead would proclaim light to the jewish people and to the Gentiles”

You think Paul almost persuaded king Agrippa because he taught the Sabbath was done away with and we can now eat dogs?

Remember Gamaliels advise in Acts 6 to leave them alone because it might by of Yah? You really think zealous jews would agree to it if the teaching was Sabbath was done away with and we can now eat dogs?

Look at Verse 42 “daily in the temple and in every house they did not cease preaching...”

Do you think they could daily in the temple teach the Sabbath was done away with and we can now eat dogs?

Add to that list what I already mentioned as the joys of catholics...

Imagine them in the temple teaching any of this...One God and 3...Sabbath is now Sunday...make images to bow at...eat human fleas and blood...Peter is the Messiah the anointed christ now...eat dogs and bats...immortal soul...hell torment forever...use rosary...pay indulgence...the list grows and grows...

Nope you are correct Paul did not break any Law of the temple...is why jews still visited him under house arrest...to hear of One the Hope of Israel resurrected and now to the Gentiles...

These jews Acts 28:21-22 had NOT heard of Paul teaching the end of their traditions and customs Moses delivered...but because he was not teaching that scandal...imagine if he was...all of the diaspora would have heard the blasphemy...these jews however had heard of the Way...the sect teaching about the Hope of Israel...a sect who worshipped the God of their fathers believing in ALL things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets Acts 24:14 as there was still NO NT...

NOTHING about Sabbath being done away with and now every day...or that we can now eat dogs...

 

[clefty]

Now just hating is murder, and lusting secretly in your heart is adultery.

If you would obey Jesus you would have things revealed to you, like you would know anger precedes murder.

Before a man or woman commits adultery, it started in the thought and then desire came to the heart.

I am so happy the Spirit led you to this understanding...

Now you can fully appreciate why Yahushua said nothing outside or coming into the body can make it unclean...but that it begins INSIDE FIRST...

Your desire for bacon comes from the heart...a defiled already unclean heart which covets what the world does...His people do not...

Just like the warning in Deut 4:15 “Take careful heed to yourselves for you saw NO FORM...16 lest you ACT corruptly and make yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure; the likeness of male or female.”

Did you catch that? Be careful that you FIRST not act corruptly...as it comes from the heart...and then make an image of anything...

Doesn’t even say not to worship it...just don’t make it...as it reveals a corrupted heart...


LOL...finally we are more on track to the joys of Catholicism...what a detour...


By their fruits ye shall know them... what we DO reveals the inner heart...


Maybe we should start another thread about how what we eat reveals our faith and obedience...Peter said we should not follow man’s traditions but that of Yah...



So glad you finally see that anger and lust are inner defilements and “already breaking the Law”...just like craving bacon first...and then eating it...makes you unclean prior the eating

you are not your own but a temple to Yah

1 Cor 6:19-20

keep it clean

 

[God's Truth]

I am so happy the Spirit led you to this understanding...

You spoke against it and made fun of it.

Now you can fully appreciate why Yahushua said nothing outside or coming into the body can make it unclean...but that it begins INSIDE FIRST...

You first twisted the truth about Jesus saying no lusting in the heart and do not hate and get angry, and now you are still confused about food not making anyone unclean. FOOD DOES NOT MAKE ONE UNCLEAN. Jesus isn't being ironic. Jesus says the words people say make them unclean.

Your desire for bacon comes from the heart...a defiled already unclean heart which covets what the world does...His people do not...

You don't know what I eat you false witness. You don't speak like Jesus. Jesus told the PHARISEES it is not what goes in a person it is what comes out and according to your twist, those Pharisees have a good heart because they don't eat pork.

Just like the warning in Deut 4:15 “Take careful heed to yourselves for you saw NO FORM...16 lest you ACT corruptly and make yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure; the likeness of male or female.”

Did you catch that? Be careful that you FIRST not act corruptly...as it comes from the heart...and then make an image of anything...

Doesn’t even say not to worship it...just don’t make it...as it reveals a corrupted heart...

Do you ever say that to the Catholics? You said not to speak to the Catholic and tell them such things.

By their fruits ye shall know them... what we DO reveals the inner heart...

Jesus says NOT what goes in reveals their heart but what comes out.

So glad you finally see that anger and lust are inner defilements and “already breaking the Law”...just like craving bacon first...and then eating it...makes you unclean prior the eating

you are not your own but a temple to Yah

Do you think your twisting of the truth is from God?

There is no me finally seeing something when I have been trying to show you.