The Islamic Religion and Faith. Muslims and their religious practice.

Jacob

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The problem is that the jews and muslims are unable to properly interpret their very own scriptures.

I assume that you are a Christian or no? We have not discussed jews being unable to properly interpret their very own scriptures, unless you are talking about Revelation or the New Testament.
 

Apple7

New member
I have a question about this. How does this say that Jesus is God? Is this that the Father is God or that Jesus is God? For who is the son?

This is Jesus speaking.





Does not Theos refer to God?

Yes.





I am a little bit confused. Why have you picked this passage? Does it have any thing to do with the portion from the Bible that you presented above?

Both passages confirm that Jesus is God.
 

Apple7

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I assume that you are a Christian or no? We have not discussed jews being unable to properly interpret their very own scriptures, unless you are talking about Revelation or the New Testament.

Yes, I am Trinitarian.
 

Jacob

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By reading context.

This is what I see.

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
 

MennoSota

New member
Sure...


Here, from the Holy Bible, Jesus Himself directly states that He is God:

ο νικων κληρονομησει ταυτα και εσομαι αυτω θεος και αυτος εσται μοι υιος

ho nikao kleronomeo houtos kai esomai autos theos kai autos esomai moi huios

The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to Me. (Rev 21.7)




Observe that “Theos” is in the nominative case, indicating that Jesus is the subject of the verb “esomai” establishing Him as God.

Further, observe that Jesus establishes that His deity is directly interchangeable with the Father, making the ones overcoming, the sons to Him.



Here, from the Koran, Jesus is stated to be God:

Jesus Knows the Hour


Twice, in sura 43, Jesus Christ (i.e. the Son), is accurately described as possessing knowledge of The Resurrection…

ولما ضرب ابن مريم مثلا إذا قومك منه يصدون وقالوا ءألهتنا خير أم هو ما ضربوه لك إلا جدلا بل هم قوم خصمون إن هو إلا عبد أنعمنا عليه وجعلنه مثلا لبني إسرءيل ولو نشاء لجعلنا منكم ملئكة في الأرض يخلفون وإنه لعلم للساعة فلا تمترن بها واتبعون هذا صرط مستقيم


Walamma duriba ibnu maryama mathalan itha qawmuka minhu yasiddoona waqaloo aalihatuna khayrun am huwa ma daraboohu laka illa jadalan bal hum qawmun khasimoona in huwa illa AAabdun anAAamna AAalayhi wajaAAalnahu mathalan libanee isra-eela walaw nashao lajaAAalna minkum mala-ikatan fee al-ardi yakhlufoona wa-innahu laAAilmun lilssaAAati fala tamtarunna biha waittabiAAooni hatha siratun mustaqeemun

And only Mary's Son, held up (as) a sign on your nation, from Him they start raising clamor. And they said: "Are our gods better or He?” That they set Him forth to you except disputation, but they, a nation (of) contentious people. Indeed He except a slave; we have bestowed blessings on Him, and we made Him a sign to Israel’s sons. And if we will, truly we made from your angels upon the earth, they succeed. And truly He (has) knowledge to The Resurrection, so have no doubt on account of it, and follow Me, this exact right path. (43.57 – 61)


Here, only Jesus Christ is described as being a sign to the people.

Jesus is stated to be an exception (i.e. in a class all by Himself, via “illa”) both to the disputing people, and also as a mere slave.

Jesus is shown to be in deity status as He is compared against the people’s gods. Further, Jesus is stated to have angels upon the earth, and that He possesses indisputable knowledge regarding the Resurrection.


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قل إن كان للرحمن ولد فأنا أول العبدين سبحن رب السموت والأرض رب العرش عما يصفون فذرهم يخوضوا ويلعبوا حتى يلقوا يومهم الذي يوعدون وهو الذي في السماء إله وفي الأرض إله وهو الحكيم العليم وتبارك الذي له ملك السموت والأرض وما بينهما وعنده علم الساعة وإليه ترجعون ولا يملك الذين يدعون من دونه الشفعة إلا من شهد بالحق وهم يعلمون


Qul in kana lilrrahmani waladun faana awwalu alAAabideena subhana rabbi alssamawati waal-ardi rabbi alAAarshi AAamma yasifoona fatharhum yakhoodoo wayalAAaboo hatta yulaqoo yawmahumu allathee yooAAadoona wahuwa allathee fee alssama-i ilahun wafee al-ardi ilahun wahuwa alhakeemu alAAaleemu watabaraka allathee lahu mulku alssamawati waal-ardi wama baynahuma waAAindahu AAilmu alssaAAati wa-ilayhi turjaAAoona wala yamliku allatheena yadAAoona min doonihi alshshafaAAata illa man shahida bialhaqqi wahum yaAAlamoona

Say: "Indeed on account of the most merciful Son, so I myself the worshippers' first.” Glory be to the heavens and the earth’s Lord, the throne's Lord, from what they ascribe. So leave them alone; they indulged and they jest until they meet their day whom they were threatened. And He, whom upon the cloud, God, and upon the earth, God, and He, the wise, the one who knows. And exalted whom certainly His, King (of) the heavens and the earth and what is between them and with Him is the knowledge of the Resurrection, and to Him you are taken back. And has no power to prevail whom they call from superior to Him, The Intercession, except He; He bore witness on account of The Truth and them, they know. (43.81- 86)



Again, sura 43 proclaims that the Son (i.e. Jesus Christ) possesses knowledge of the Resurrection (AAilmu alssaAAati).

Jesus Christ, the subject of these ayahs, also has these things revealed about Him:

•Jesus is worshiped as the Most Merciful
•Jesus is Lord of the heavens and earth
•Jesus is King of the heavens and earth
•Jesus is Lord of the Throne
•Jesus is God upon the Cloud
•Jesus is God upon the Earth
•Jesus is The Intercession
•Jesus is The Witness
•Jesus is The Truth
•None are superior to Him
•Jesus takes back those who are His on the Day of Resurrection



Not surprisingly, these ayahs are proclaiming Jesus’ return on a Cloud, on the Day of the First Resurrection, just as found in Revelation chapter fourteen.
Qureshi would disagree with your claim. I trust Qureshi above you.
 

Apple7

New member
This is what I see.

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.


What's the issue, then?
 

Jacob

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Banned
Start your rebuttal...

I have only stated what it does not say, which I assumed you were saying that it said, but which it obviously doesn't from a clear reading involving the context. If this is a rebuttal okay.

edit- the same in this case, it is the same that we are looking at
 

Apple7

New member
I have only stated what it does not say, which I assumed you were saying that it said, but which it obviously doesn't from a clear reading involving the context. If this is a rebuttal okay.

edit- the same in this case, it is the same that we are looking at


Not much of a rebuttal.

Can you show us an exegesis?
 
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