The important thing that is hiding in these elections

chair

Well-known member
There is something very basic that is being lost with all the rhetoric and mudslinging.

Close to half of the US of the US population feels so neglected and rejected by the usual breed of politicians that they will forgive any and all shortcomings of President Trump- anything to change the way the system works. What 'normal' politicians need to do is to pay attention to what is bothering all these citizens so much. What's driving them? What do they need that 'normal' Democrats and Republicans don't deliver?

There is something very wrong with the US political system. Donald Trump is a symptom of that- he is not the actual problem.
 

The Barbarian

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Banned
There is something very wrong with the US political system. Donald Trump is a symptom of that- he is not the actual problem.

Yes, but I see some encouraging signs. First,voter suppression, while occasionally effective, seems to have largely backfired on the republicans in the presidential race. People stood for hours in line to vote, just to poke them in the eyes. That's traditional Americanism.

Second, it appears that blacks and Hispanics were voting for Trump at higher levels than for most republicans. Trump set aside his racism and openly courted those groups. If the republican party follows suit, that would be a healthy move for America, albeit not what democrats would like.

On the downside, I see educated people of all races moving away from the republicans. And that's a major switch from the past, when most working people were democrats and most professional people were republicans. Not sure what that means, but given that people with college degrees are a growing demographic group, that's not good for republicans.

The real benefit is that the latter two trends will make Gerrymandering more difficult and less predictable. Which is a good thing.
 

annabenedetti

Well-known member
There is something very basic that is being lost with all the rhetoric and mudslinging.

Close to half of the US of the US population feels so neglected and rejected by the usual breed of politicians that they will forgive any and all shortcomings of President Trump- anything to change the way the system works. What 'normal' politicians need to do is to pay attention to what is bothering all these citizens so much. What's driving them? What do they need that 'normal' Democrats and Republicans don't deliver?

There is something very wrong with the US political system. Donald Trump is a symptom of that- he is not the actual problem.

The GOP candidate has lost the popular vote in seven of the last eight elections. That has to tell you something.
 

ok doser

Well-known member
it encourages stupid people to participate

At all levels - this is from 1987 when Biden was forced to withdraw due to issues with plagiarism and outright lying:


Biden's records that he released last week indicated he attended law school on a half-time scholarship based on financial need and that he graduated 76th out of a law school class of 85. His undergraduate academic records show that he graduated from Delaware 506th in a class of 688 with a "C" average

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...urate/932eaee932eaeed-9071-47a1-aeac-c94a51b6

 

Idolater

Well-known member
The GOP candidate has lost the popular vote in seven of the last eight elections. That has to tell you something.
Campaign strategy is based upon the actual system we have which is the electoral system. If we changed to a straight popular vote the Republicans would campaign differently and still be competitive---the party wins near 50% of all elections everywhere. Blaming the rules of the game you're trying to win for you losing, is what losers have always done.
 

chair

Well-known member
The GOP candidate has lost the popular vote in seven of the last eight elections. That has to tell you something.

irrespective- you have 40-45% of the country that is so upset with how things are going that they put up with President Trump, and pretend his failing don't exist. 45% of the country shouldn't be that unhappy.
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
A party that depends on gaming the rules to overcome the distrust of American voters is not capable of governing effectively.

Way back when Reagan was president, the Soviet block in the UN tried to embarrass America by mounting a "free Puerto Rico" campaign. Reagan's UN ambassador was a democrat, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, He addressed the general session, saying that the United States was not inclined to take instruction in freedom from regimes that didn't even trust their own people.

There was much offense taken and harrumphing, but that was the end of it. Moynihan hit them precisely where they were vulnerable.

Today, given the actions of Trump and the republicans, that response could no longer be made.

And that's a shame.
 

ok doser

Well-known member
The founding fathers merely echoed Plato and Aristotle who understood the same thing about democracy.

Yep - A democracy can only survive with a population that is well educated and moral. We have neither at the moment.
 

Lon

Well-known member
There is something very basic that is being lost with all the rhetoric and mudslinging.

Close to half of the US of the US population feels so neglected and rejected by the usual breed of politicians that they will forgive any and all shortcomings of President Trump- anything to change the way the system works. What 'normal' politicians need to do is to pay attention to what is bothering all these citizens so much. What's driving them? What do they need that 'normal' Democrats and Republicans don't deliver?

There is something very wrong with the US political system. Donald Trump is a symptom of that- he is not the actual problem.

Good observations. Families make up the largest social groups with the strongest values expressed in any nation. When those values take a backseat to other concerns, there is always going to be a problem. Is there a great need to ensure that others' aren't neglected? Yes, but for more than 20 years? It causes a strain on the basic family structure. Any government that is going to work either has to be controlling and authoritarian, or it has to focus on the majority of its constituents. The last 6 elections have lost focus.
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
The founding fathers merely echoed Plato and Aristotle who understood the same thing about democracy.

All dictators depend on one principle: "People cannot be trusted to govern themselves; you have to rule them."

The founders came up with a way to avoid a pure democracy but still responsible to the people of the nation. That is what Trump and his ilk fear. And that is what we must maintain if we are to remain a free nation.
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Much if not most of the 40-45% doesn't "put up" with Trump, they celebrate him, they lionize him. I think you're missing that.

Indeed, these are the same ones who bought into *birtherism* of the only black president.

I am pessimistic at the country coming together because it would mean tolerating racism, sexism and religious bigotry of about 40% of the country.
 

annabenedetti

Well-known member
Indeed, these are the same ones who bought into *birtherism* of the only black president.

I am pessimistic at the country coming together because it would mean tolerating racism, sexism and religious bigotry of about 40% of the country.

I'm understanding in a way I didn't before that they've always been there, and it's been a blow to me, to what I thought America was all about.

Trump is a symptom, a catalyst, but he isn't the source. They are the source.
 

ok doser

Well-known member
Indeed, these are the same ones who bought into *birtherism* of the only black president.

I am pessimistic at the country coming together because it would mean tolerating racism, sexism and religious bigotry of about 40% of the country.

Pray for us all

It's the Christian thing to do
 

Idolater

Well-known member
All dictators depend on one principle: "People cannot be trusted to govern themselves; you have to rule them."

The founders came up with a way to avoid a pure democracy but still responsible to the people of the nation. That is what Trump and his ilk fear. And that is what we must maintain if we are to remain a free nation.
What are you talking about.
 
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