The house of Israel and the house of Judah.
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
I was actually hoping that since you are forever bringing that up about yourself; you might actually be posting a study from the Scripture itself from the Jewish perspective you keep claiming you follow.
I mean that.
I myself every so often will look into what studies Jews and Messianics may have done on one thing or another, that I might learn something from.
One time I spent an entire afternoon at a park bench with a Rabbi I ran into.
Back and forth we went just sharing each our understanding with one another.
We had a great time. I've never forgotten it.
But anyway, how about it - what is YOUR Scripture based take on your question?
Thanks in advance, and hopefully your answer is not just one more than "Shalom...I don't understand..." :chuckle:
Rom. 5:8.
iamaberean
New member
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Shalom.
I have accepted Jesus' words in Matthew 5:17-20 as for me. I have accepted the covenant upon myself. I keep and teach the Commandments in obedience to Jesus' word and teaching, for it is then that I am great or to be great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-20 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [a]the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [c]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Shalom.
Jacob
iouae
Well-known member
This question really has two parts. Who is the house of Judah? This refers to the tribes of Judah, Levi and Benjamin who formed the southern group, and are commonly called "Jews" even today.
The Northern 13-3 tribes were the house of Israel, who got scattered by the Assyrians.
Christ sent his Apostles to these scattered tribes not living in Palestine.
All apostles were sent to, and taught taught the New Covenant laws, first to the House of Judah, then to the lost house of Israel who were scattered among the gentiles. In so doing they preached also to the Gentiles, many of whom did not know they were actually Israelites.
Now to the second part of the question, which is "what laws are written on the heart?".
Christ writes His 1050 New Covenant laws on the hearts of Christians. Many Christians today are actually descended from the "lost 10 tribes" or lost house of Israel. Thus God has written on the hears of Christians His New Covenant laws.
To know what these 1050 laws are, go to ...
https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands
Ps. I am not trying to promote this website, I just like their summary.
Jeremiah 31:33-34 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Hebrews 8:7-13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
[a]When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
11 “And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For all will know Me,
From [c]the least to the greatest of them.
12 “For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.”
13 [d]When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is [e]ready to disappear.
Footnotes:
Hebrews 8:8 Lit And
Hebrews 8:10 Lit Putting my laws into...
Hebrews 8:11 Lit small to great of them
Hebrews 8:13 Or In His saying
Hebrews 8:13 Or near
Jeremiah 31:31-34 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Shalom.
The Torah has 613 Commandments for us to observe. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation. I have seen the website that you are referring to before. Do you accept Matthew 5:17-20 NASB? I do not know if there are New Covenant Commandments. The New Covenant is a Covenant. Often Matthew through Revelation are referred to as The New Covenant. But the Covenant is not the Scriptures themselves. I do not believe in a lost 10 tribes or a lost house of Israel. I do not know who the house of Israel and the house of Judah spoken of in Jeremiah are. I do not accept what you are saying.
You said New Covenant laws. Do you accept 613 laws or commandments?
Shalom.
Jacob
iouae
Well-known member
Yes I accept Matt5:17-20
But when last did you take a long hard look at the 613?
They are not the kind of thing to have written on on's heart. I did a serious study of them. Many have to do with the temple (which does not exist today), sacrifices (which don't exist today), laws regarding slaves (which don't exist today), kings and how to treat them (which don't exist today), how to treat animals and crops and enemies, and foreigners etc. all of which have zero application to me today, as does wearing tassels or phylacteries, or giving the first fruit of my crop, since I don't own a farm.
You are saying this is different because the commandments are notwritten on your heart. I accept all of these, though I have recognized we have been without a temple for sacrifice. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation and Yeshua as the Messiah.
iouae
Well-known member
The 613 may have been fine to guide a physical nation. A citizen might need to know what to do if his house gets leperousy. Likewise a farmer might need telling not to make an ox and donkey plough together.
But a Christian needs laws pertaining to the higher, not earthly kingdom. It is these laws Christ/Yeshuah was speaking about when He spoke of writing laws in their inward parts.
Heb 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.
I would rather devote myself to not letting the sun go down upon my wrath, than bother with all the washings of the Old Covenant. And Christ said it is what comes out of a man that defiles him. So those many unclean laws, as nice as they are, are not a top priority. That said, I do not deliberately try to be "unclean".
Shalom.
You seem to believe that there are two different things and that the second takes precedent but that the first still has some importance.
Do you say that the laws for the nation of Israel are for them? Or, do you say that they are not for anyone? Who is God's covenant people? Are they for you?
When you say a higher not earthly kingdom, I wonder what you are talking about. What is the earthly kingdom you are speaking of, and what is the higher? Do you believe in heaven? Do you believe that Christ will set up an earthly kingdom? Is it fair to say that this is talking about a different kind of earthly kingdom? I do not know what you are saying. I wonder what an earthly kingdom is. I understand that the kingdom of heaven is something for more than heaven now or in the future, even from the time of Christ. Those who keep and teach the Commandments are great in the kingdom of heaven said Jesus.
Shalom.
Jacob
iouae
Well-known member
I think when Christ returns, He will purify the sons of Levi, and they will offer offerings again in a temple in Jerusalem. Thus I believe in keeping all 613 and the 1050 if one lives in the Holy land, and is an Israelite. They will keep the clean and unclean laws, feasts, sacrifices, wear tassels, not muzzle the ox etc. Being clean only has relevance to going into the temple, no other place.
So, as probably a non-Israelite, but also possibly of the 10 lost tribes, who knows, I hardly give the 613 a thought, having more than enough to do with the 1050.
I do not know there to be 10 lost tribes. Observing God's Commandments is for me a choice. I was not originally obligated to do so. But I accepted Yeshua's words as for me. It is important to be clean for the temple, but that is not the only reason.
iouae
Well-known member
I don't know if I am an Israelite or not, but I keep the Sabbath, the OT Feast days, eat only clean animals, and keep a few other OT laws. But my focus is completely on the 1050, but more especially having faith in Jesus alone to save me.
My problem with Sabbath keepers is that they almost feel like if they keep the Sabbath they are good with God, and don't feel a real need to grow beyond just keeping the Sabbath and a few OT laws.
Okay.
I wear tzit-tzit, etc. . . .
I believe that salvation is in God in Jesus Christ alone.
iouae
Well-known member
What is twit-tzit? Is that the blue tassels?
tzit-tzit includes one blue thread among seven white ones.
iouae
Well-known member
When my Sabbath-keeping friends go on about law keeping, almost sounding like they think they are righteous for keeping one or two laws like the Sabbath, I ask them why they don't wear tassels which are also commanded. I assume the tassels might be the tzit-tzit or something similar. This is similar to Paul's argument that if one wants to be righteous through law-keeping, then one has to keep every last one to be righteous, which is frankly impossible.
Thus righteousness has to come from Christ imputing it to us, as he did to Abraham.
That does not diminish the fact that I love the law and try to keep it.
The tzit-tzit are likely the tassels that you are referring to. Not all believers wear them. But the men of Israel are supposed to.