The Holy Spirit and the Gospel Verses the Law and Religion

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Not an Option - Baptism into Christ - Galatians 3

Not an Option - Baptism into Christ - Galatians 3

In Galations 3:27, Paul introduces the subject of baptism. In doing so, Paul directly connects baptism to union with Christ. In Paul's mind, baptism is regarded as the rite of initiation into Christ, that is, into union with Christ. Thus it is baptism which marks our entrance into Christ's church since baptism is the visible sign and seal of an invisible spiritual reality, namely regeneration and the forgiveness of sins.

While the rite of baptism is not the cause of regeneration—this is the work of the Holy Spirit in applying to us the saving benefits of Jesus Christ, hence the Protestants reject the notion of baptismal regeneration—nevertheless, baptism is a sign and seal of regeneration and the forgiveness of sins. Therefore, through faith in the promise God makes to his people, the one baptized is to be regarded as regenerate and as though their sins have been forgiven.

Paul also speaks of baptism in the sense of being “baptized into” Christ, or being “baptized so as to become a member of” Christ. For Paul, baptism is regarded as a “putting on” of Christ, who is thought of as a garment enveloping the believer and symbolizing his new spiritual existence.The metaphor is probably derived from the Old Testament where the figure of changing clothes to represent an inward and spiritual change was common, a theme which is found in Isaiah 61:10 “he has clothed me with garments of salvation” and Zechariah 3:4, "I have taken away your sin, and I will put rich garments on you."

Thus when one is baptized into Christ, they are said to put on Christ and are believed to be clothed in his spotless robe of righteousness. They no longer stand before God in the filthy rags of their own sinfulness and pitiful attempts at good works.

Pitting water baptism against "Spirit Baptism":

Spoiler

There is no such thing in the New Testament as an "unbaptized Christian," except for the thief on the cross, who is an exception rather than the rule.
The crucified but repentant thief will be in paradise with our Lord even though he was not baptized.

It is not the absence of baptism which damns, but the despising of baptism. According to Paul, baptism is regarded as the sign and seal of the righteousness of faith (Romans 4:9-12). Baptism is seen in Colossians 2:9-12, as the replacement of circumcision. A knife-cutting ritual (circumcision) is replaced by a water-ordeal (baptism) anticipated by Noah's deliverance from judgment by the Ark and the waters of the flood (1 Peter 3:18-21), as the Israelites passed safely through the waters of the Red Sea in the Exodus and through the waters of the Jordan as they entered the land of promise (1 Corinthians 10:1-4).

Paul is also clearly speaking of "water" baptism here. There is no need to pit water baptism against "Spirit baptism," as the one (baptism with water) is a sign and seal of the other (baptism in the Holy Spirit). It is Paul who put these two things side by side in Titus 3:5, "he saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit."

Baptism is closely connected to faith, ruling out the Roman Catholic notion of baptism being efficacious simply by virtue of the act itself—that is, ex opere operato (by virtue of the work performed). Faith is mentioned fifteen times in Galatians and baptism but once, no small point.

From the standpoint of the practice of baptism in apostolic times, faith and baptism were not necessarily two distinct experiences separated by a period of time but two inseparable, almost co-incident parts of the one single experience of transition from the old to the new. Thus faith in Christ, and the sign and seal of that faith, baptism, are inseparable in the New Testament. One who exercises faith in Christ must be baptized as the sign and seal of the benefits of Christ and as the means of entrance into Christ's church.

This means that it is faith which unites us to Christ (of which baptism is a sign and seal) so that one who is baptized is said to be clothed in Christ. Paul mentions baptism here because he is about to emphasize the oneness of those who are in Christ (Galations 3:28, where the all of Galations 3:26 recurs): the visible sign of this oneness is not faith but baptism; the oneness with Christ that is symbolized in baptism is the basis for the oneness in Christ.This explains Paul's declaration in Ephesians 4:5, “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.”

In Galations 3:29, Paul now summarizes a number of his earlier points. Those who are united to Christ through faith alone, belong to Christ, and since Christ is the true seed of Abraham, all who are Christ's are also Abraham's true seed and therefore, heirs to all the blessings of the promise. Under the New Covenant, baptism replaces circumcision as the sign and seal of covenant membership (Colossians 2:11-12).

Jesus was also born “under the law,” meaning that he was born under the law of Moses. Thus our Lord was under direct subjection to the law, which he would subsequently fulfill in its entirety, by obeying its every command in thought, word and deed. Since Jesus was born under the law, requiring perfect obedience to its obligations, and since his death is said to bear the curse of the law, Jesus Christ is therefore, the Redeemer, that one who came to die for the guilt of all of our sins, and the one who fulfills the requirements of the law.

This means that Christ fulfills the law through his active obedience, while in his passive obedience he dies upon the cross, bearing in his own body the curse of the law for our sins. As Paul makes perfectly clear throughout the Book of Galatians, the benefits of Christ's life and death become ours through faith alone, not through faith and works or through faith and circumcision.

Two themes in the chapter in question:

Spoiler

There are two new themes introduced by Paul in Gal. 3. The first of these centers in the importance and meaning of baptism. Those of us who may come from evangelical and fundamentalist backgrounds tend to get a bit nervous when the discussion of baptism heads in the direction that Paul takes us here.

For Paul, baptism is the initiatory rite marking our entrance into Christ. To be baptized, Paul says, is to “put on Christ,” as we would put on a garment. In this case, the garment is connected to the robe of Jesus Christ’s perfect righteousness.

Thus baptism is not incidental to the Christian life, it marks the beginning of the Christian life and is our public identification with Christ—not coming forward during a Finneyistic altar call. Paul would be shocked that so-called evangelical churches would act like baptism was not required or that baptism was incidental to church membership and the Christian life. Paul cannot conceive of the Christian life apart from baptism.

Paul does not teach that the water of baptism regenerates—per erroneous Romanism—but he does teach that baptism is a sign and seal of a real but invisible spiritual reality, namely regeneration and the forgiveness of sins. We cannot see that the blood of Christ has washed away our sins. We cannot see the Holy Spirit give us the new birth. But we can see the water of baptism. As surely as we have the water applied to us in this Sacrament—by faith—we believe that the blood of Christ has similarly washed away our sins and that the blessed Holy Spirit has given us the new birth.

Let's not forget the second theme that Paul makes here—namely as the adopted children of God—we who are by nature children of wrath and under God's curse, not his promise of blessing, can now draw near to God in intimate fellowship. As Jesus prayed, “Abba, Father,” so may we all as believers. For when we are clothed in the righteousness of Christ, God cannot turn us away even as God cannot turn away his own dear Son.

Through faith in Jesus Christ, signed and sealed through baptism, all of the riches of heaven and the blessings of eternal life are ours. God has sealed that promise to us in baptism. He has clothed us in Christ.

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

But Paul makes it clear the righteousness of the law is fulfilled IN US....not for us. Right?

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​

It is both. The law was fulfilled for us and in us.

Who did Jesus fulfill the law for?

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED" Matthew 5:18.

Did Jesus fulfill the law for himself? That would be rather unlikely since he was without sin. Who does the law condemn? The law condemns us, the sinners.

After the law was fulfilled for us, it was abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Thank God.

 

[Robert Pate]

In Galations 3:27, Paul introduces the subject of baptism. In doing so, Paul directly connects baptism to union with Christ. In Paul's mind, baptism is regarded as the rite of initiation into Christ, that is, into union with Christ. Thus it is baptism which marks our entrance into Christ's church since baptism is the visible sign and seal of an invisible spiritual reality, namely regeneration and the forgiveness of sins.

While the rite of baptism is not the cause of regeneration—this is the work of the Holy Spirit in applying to us the saving benefits of Jesus Christ, hence the Protestants reject the notion of baptismal regeneration—nevertheless, baptism is a sign and seal of regeneration and the forgiveness of sins. Therefore, through faith in the promise God makes to his people, the one baptized is to be regarded as regenerate and as though their sins have been forgiven.

Paul also speaks of baptism in the sense of being “baptized into” Christ, or being “baptized so as to become a member of” Christ. For Paul, baptism is regarded as a “putting on” of Christ, who is thought of as a garment enveloping the believer and symbolizing his new spiritual existence.The metaphor is probably derived from the Old Testament where the figure of changing clothes to represent an inward and spiritual change was common, a theme which is found in Isaiah 61:10 “he has clothed me with garments of salvation” and Zechariah 3:4, "I have taken away your sin, and I will put rich garments on you."

Thus when one is baptized into Christ, they are said to put on Christ and are believed to be clothed in his spotless robe of righteousness. They no longer stand before God in the filthy rags of their own sinfulness and pitiful attempts at good works.

Pitting water baptism against "Spirit Baptism":

Spoiler

There is no such thing in the New Testament as an "unbaptized Christian," except for the thief on the cross, who is an exception rather than the rule.
The crucified but repentant thief will be in paradise with our Lord even though he was not baptized.

It is not the absence of baptism which damns, but the despising of baptism. According to Paul, baptism is regarded as the sign and seal of the righteousness of faith (Romans 4:9-12). Baptism is seen in Colossians 2:9-12, as the replacement of circumcision. A knife-cutting ritual (circumcision) is replaced by a water-ordeal (baptism) anticipated by Noah's deliverance from judgment by the Ark and the waters of the flood (1 Peter 3:18-21), as the Israelites passed safely through the waters of the Red Sea in the Exodus and through the waters of the Jordan as they entered the land of promise (1 Corinthians 10:1-4).

Paul is also clearly speaking of "water" baptism here. There is no need to pit water baptism against "Spirit baptism," as the one (baptism with water) is a sign and seal of the other (baptism in the Holy Spirit). It is Paul who put these two things side by side in Titus 3:5, "he saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit."

Baptism is closely connected to faith, ruling out the Roman Catholic notion of baptism being efficacious simply by virtue of the act itself—that is, ex opere operato (by virtue of the work performed). Faith is mentioned fifteen times in Galatians and baptism but once, no small point.

From the standpoint of the practice of baptism in apostolic times, faith and baptism were not necessarily two distinct experiences separated by a period of time but two inseparable, almost co-incident parts of the one single experience of transition from the old to the new. Thus faith in Christ, and the sign and seal of that faith, baptism, are inseparable in the New Testament. One who exercises faith in Christ must be baptized as the sign and seal of the benefits of Christ and as the means of entrance into Christ's church.

This means that it is faith which unites us to Christ (of which baptism is a sign and seal) so that one who is baptized is said to be clothed in Christ. Paul mentions baptism here because he is about to emphasize the oneness of those who are in Christ (Galations 3:28, where the all of Galations 3:26 recurs): the visible sign of this oneness is not faith but baptism; the oneness with Christ that is symbolized in baptism is the basis for the oneness in Christ.This explains Paul's declaration in Ephesians 4:5, “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.”

In Galations 3:29, Paul now summarizes a number of his earlier points. Those who are united to Christ through faith alone, belong to Christ, and since Christ is the true seed of Abraham, all who are Christ's are also Abraham's true seed and therefore, heirs to all the blessings of the promise. Under the New Covenant, baptism replaces circumcision as the sign and seal of covenant membership (Colossians 2:11-12).

Jesus was also born “under the law,” meaning that he was born under the law of Moses. Thus our Lord was under direct subjection to the law, which he would subsequently fulfill in its entirety, by obeying its every command in thought, word and deed. Since Jesus was born under the law, requiring perfect obedience to its obligations, and since his death is said to bear the curse of the law, Jesus Christ is therefore, the Redeemer, that one who came to die for the guilt of all of our sins, and the one who fulfills the requirements of the law.

This means that Christ fulfills the law through his active obedience, while in his passive obedience he dies upon the cross, bearing in his own body the curse of the law for our sins. As Paul makes perfectly clear throughout the Book of Galatians, the benefits of Christ's life and death become ours through faith alone, not through faith and works or through faith and circumcision.

Two themes in the chapter in question:

Spoiler

There are two new themes introduced by Paul in Gal. 3. The first of these centers in the importance and meaning of baptism. Those of us who may come from evangelical and fundamentalist backgrounds tend to get a bit nervous when the discussion of baptism heads in the direction that Paul takes us here.

For Paul, baptism is the initiatory rite marking our entrance into Christ. To be baptized, Paul says, is to “put on Christ,” as we would put on a garment. In this case, the garment is connected to the robe of Jesus Christ’s perfect righteousness.

Thus baptism is not incidental to the Christian life, it marks the beginning of the Christian life and is our public identification with Christ—not coming forward during a Finneyistic altar call. Paul would be shocked that so-called evangelical churches would act like baptism was not required or that baptism was incidental to church membership and the Christian life. Paul cannot conceive of the Christian life apart from baptism.

Paul does not teach that the water of baptism regenerates—per erroneous Romanism—but he does teach that baptism is a sign and seal of a real but invisible spiritual reality, namely regeneration and the forgiveness of sins. We cannot see that the blood of Christ has washed away our sins. We cannot see the Holy Spirit give us the new birth. But we can see the water of baptism. As surely as we have the water applied to us in this Sacrament—by faith—we believe that the blood of Christ has similarly washed away our sins and that the blessed Holy Spirit has given us the new birth.

Let's not forget the second theme that Paul makes here—namely as the adopted children of God—we who are by nature children of wrath and under God's curse, not his promise of blessing, can now draw near to God in intimate fellowship. As Jesus prayed, “Abba, Father,” so may we all as believers. For when we are clothed in the righteousness of Christ, God cannot turn us away even as God cannot turn away his own dear Son.

Through faith in Jesus Christ, signed and sealed through baptism, all of the riches of heaven and the blessings of eternal life are ours. God has sealed that promise to us in baptism. He has clothed us in Christ.

AMR

Water baptism is nothing more than a public profession of ones faith in Christ. It is not the entrance into Christ. The entrance into Christ is by faith in Christ and his Gospel. The only thing that baptism will do for you is get you wet.

 

[glorydaz]

It is both. The law was fulfilled for us and in us.

Who did Jesus fulfill the law for?

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED" Matthew 5:18.

Did Jesus fulfill the law for himself? That would be rather unlikely since he was without sin. Who does the law condemn? The law condemns us, the sinners.

After the law was fulfilled for us, it was abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Thank God.

Matt. doesn't say the law was fulfilled for us.

 

[Robert Pate]

Matt. doesn't say the law was fulfilled for us.

Who then did Jesus fulfill the law for? Matthew 5:18.

There are a lot of things that the Bible does not say. Maybe that is why, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14.

 

[musterion]

Who then did Jesus fulfill the law for? Matthew 5:18.

One of the qualifiers of Messiah.

Asking you again for ONE chapter/verse reference that plainly states Christ kept the Law FOR us because we couldn't, and God reckons that perfect lawkeeping to us.

If anyone would teach that it would likely be Paul. Start with him.

 

[john w]

Water baptism is nothing more than a public profession of ones faith in Christ. It is not the entrance into Christ. The entrance into Christ is by faith in Christ and his Gospel. The only thing that baptism will do for you is get you wet.

You said that you were water baptized, when you were an "early Christian" to be obedient? I asked you, "obedient to what," twice, and you refuse to answer. Obedient to what, Pate?

 

[musterion]

You said that you were water baptized, when you were an "early Christian" to be obedient? I asked you, "obedient to what," twice, and you refuse to answer. Obedient to what, Pate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re72di5phM0

 

[john w]

Water baptism is nothing more than a public profession of ones faith in Christ. It is not the entrance into Christ. The entrance into Christ is by faith in Christ and his Gospel. The only thing that baptism will do for you is get you wet.

Pate just makes things up on the fly, from reading what others say the bible teaches, not studying, surveying the details of the book himself, a book of details, explaining the above "Water baptism is nothing more than a public profession of ones faith in Christ" made up jazz, and his devil "inspired" vicarious law keeping/law keeping is imputed for justification, perversion of the gospel of Christ "doctrine."



"witness to the world ....testimony...symbol...a public profession of ones faith in Christ " and all that jazz..

To those who agree that water baptism does not save, but it should be practiced as a " testimony", a "witness to the world" of our salvation," "a public profession of ones faith in Christ," I ask:

Where was the lost "world"(or anyone, for that matter), the "public," in the 3 most notable baptisms in the book of Acts? Who was present in Acts 8 when the Ethiopian eunuch was baptized, except Philip? Just the chariot driver? Who was present when Saul(Paul) was baptized in Acts 9? Only Anias? Who was present when the Philippian jailor was baptized in Acts 16? Only his family? Nowhere in scripture will you find any verse that tells of water baptism as a testimony to "the world", lost or saved.

From a sensical point of view, would not the water ritual be a rather poor method to witness, be a testimony, to the lost of your salvation, a public profession of ones faith in Christ.? Just how is a sopping wet person a testimony to 1 Cor. 15:1-4, Eph. 2:8,9............? A witness has a testimony,a public profession of ones faith in Christ, i.e., he/she speaks or writes of what has taken place. And just how does wet clothes, wet hair.....do that?

And how is a ceremony, that is, in most cases, performed within the walls of a church building, with mostly believers present, not the lost, effective as a testimony to the lost, be a public profession of ones faith in Christ, i.e., most of the audience is saved! If those that contend that it should be done as a testimony to the lost,the "public," then, if they were intellectually honest, then they would go down to the nearest stream/lake/pond and start "dunking away" until the tadpoles knew their social security number.

 

[john w]

I don't think that it has been abolished for you, because you don't think that Jesus abolished it for you.

No scripture asserts that it was abolished for anyone, deceiver. The law has no authority/jurisdiction over the believer, and the believer does not employ the law as a "rule of life," nor can a dead man be condemned/judged by the law, that is not equivalent to concluding, that the law was abolished, Pate, as you butcher the meaning of the word "abolish."


As I asked you, over, and over, Pate:

Who taught the Acts 2 believers, the 12, Paul, to observe the law, "post Cross," including attending all the feasts, Pentecost being the prime example, all according to the law, if the law was abolished/done away with, at the cross, as you devilishly assert?

 

[Robert Pate]

One of the qualifiers of Messiah.

Asking you again for ONE chapter/verse reference that plainly states Christ kept the Law FOR us because we couldn't, and God reckons that perfect lawkeeping to us.

If anyone would teach that it would likely be Paul. Start with him.

The fact that Christian are not under the law, nor are they subject to it tells us that something happened to the law. What happened to the law? It was fulfilled, Matthew 5:18 and then it was abolished, Ephesians 2:15. For us, who else?

"Because the law works wrath: for where there is no law, there is no transgression" Romans 4:14.

 

[john w]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re72di5phM0

Obedient to the law? Come on, Pate.....

 

[john w]

The fact that Christian are not under the law, nor are they subject to it tells us that something happened to the law. What happened to the law? It was fulfilled, Matthew 5:18 and then it was abolished, Ephesians 2:15. For us, who else?

"Because the law works wrath: for where there is no law, there is no transgression" Romans 4:14.

No scripture says that the law was abolished, Pate.


Who taught the Acts 2 believers, the 12, Paul, to observe the law, "post Cross," including attending all the feasts, Pentecost being the prime example, all according to the law, if the law was abolished/done away with, at the cross, as you devilishly assert?

 

[john w]

In Galations 3:27, Paul introduces the subject of baptism. In doing so, Paul directly connects baptism to union with Christ. In Paul's mind, baptism is regarded as the rite of initiation into Christ, that is, into union with Christ. Thus it is baptism which marks our entrance into Christ's church since baptism is the visible sign and seal of an invisible spiritual reality, namely regeneration and the forgiveness of sins.

Union/united-yes. But not through water baptism, where the Lord Jesus Christ is the baptizer. Your assertion re. water baptism is straight from your Re(de)formed "the" church SOF. Members of the boc are baptized by the Holy Spirit, into His death, and into Him, and into the boc-the Holy Spirit is the baptizer.



Romans 6:4 KJV Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2:12 KJV Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Buried with him, not like him, in baptism=no water


The book....A book of details....Accept it.


Symbol? No one was buried in water. The Lord Jesus Christ was not buried in a liquid grave, but in rocks, and buried when dead. In contrast, the "dry baptismal" candidate is buried as soon as he has received life!

 

[Robert Pate]

No scripture says that the law was abolished, Pate.


Who taught the Acts 2 believers, the 12, Paul, to observe the law, "post Cross," including attending all the feasts, Pentecost being the prime example, all according to the law, if the law was abolished/done away with, at the cross, as you devilishly assert?

Cultist don't believe anything that the Bible says, which you are one of.

 

[john w]

Cultist don't believe anything that the Bible says, which you are one of.

1. The old reliable, "You are in a cult!!!!" "Hail Mary," "Ace in the hole," eh, Pate? Weighty. I should have known, you being a closet Catholic, and all...


I've reduced him to sound bytes.

2. No, you "argued" that the law was abolished, at the cross, for believers. So, "quit like a man," and defend your "argument," and explain:

Who taught the Acts 2 believers, the 12, Paul, to observe the law, "post cross," including attending all the feasts, Pentecost being the prime example, all according to the law, if the law was abolished/done away with, at the cross, as you devilishly assert?


Were the feasts, according to the law, Pate?

3.http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...y-Romans-4-5&p=5183774&highlight=#post5183774

Cannot ignore me, as I predicted, eh, Pate? Post #, 28-about the 6th time , within 3 days, Pate asserts that he was through talking to me, and was putting me on ignore-again.

I am through talking to you John W. You appears to be a hopeless case, I am going to put you back on ignore.

My prediction-post #29:

No, you're not. You've said that 5 times, to me, in the last week, but keep coming back for more pounding, getting picked apart, by me, on orders from your daddy devil.

I suppose that I am just too un-ignorable

 

[Robert Pate]

1. The old reliable, "You are in a cult!!!!" "Hail Mary," "Ace in the hole," eh, Pate? Weighty. I should have known, you being a closet Catholic, and all...


I've reduced him to sound bytes.

2. No, you "argued" that the law was abolished, at the cross, for believers. So, "quit like a man," and defend your "argument," and explain:

Who taught the Acts 2 believers, the 12, Paul, to observe the law, "post cross," including attending all the feasts, Pentecost being the prime example, all according to the law, if the law was abolished/done away with, at the cross, as you devilishly assert?


Were the feasts, according to the law, Pate?

3.http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...y-Romans-4-5&p=5183774&highlight=#post5183774

Cannot ignore me, as I predicted, eh, Pate? Post #, 28-about the 6th time , within 3 days, Pate asserts that he was through talking to me, and was putting me on ignore-again.







My prediction-post #29:




I suppose that I am just too un-ignorable

If I would have known that you were a JW, I would not have given you one minute of my time.

 

[john w]

If I would have known that you were a JW, I would not have given you one minute of my time.

Now, the punk is really desperate.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-and-Death-of-Christ-for-the-Believer/page11

Post #164

Are you a Jehovah Witness John W.?

Can't ignore me, eh, Pate? Part of your "trifecta, Eh, Pate, with this JW stumper? Quite weighty. Next up: You are so mean spirited.......Wha wha wha...? You're embarrassing yourself, Pate. Keep posting, as we know you cannot ignore me....


You "argued" that the law was abolished, at the cross, for believers. So, "quit like a man," and defend your "argument," and explain:

Who taught the Acts 2 believers, the 12, Paul, to observe the law, "post cross," including attending all the feasts, Pentecost being the prime example, all according to the law, if the law was abolished/done away with, at the cross, as you devilishly assert?


Were the feasts, according to the law, Pate?

3.http://theologyonline.com/showthread...t=#post5183774

Cannot ignore me, as I predicted, eh, Pate? Post #, 28-about the 6th time , within 3 days, Pate asserts that he was through talking to me, and was putting me on ignore-again.


Not a peep.

 

[john w]

If I would have known that you were a JW, I would not have given you one minute of my time.

Slick excuse for not being able to stand in the same boxing arena, Pate, with the great, and humble, saint John W., the Rifleman, as I picked you apart, and your satanic assertions, leaving you slumped, on the mat, bleeding......Real slick....


Stay down on the mat....


You won't, as you will throw up some more Catholic "Hail Mary's."

 

[musterion]

There's that cult and false gospel accusation again, once again without substantiation.