The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)
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c.moore
New member
Originally posted by agape
Kevin,
Romans 6:1-6 and following are all referring to is "SPIRIT BAPTISM" NOT WATER, which is the OLD BAPTISM OF JOHN.
Acts 1:5:
For John truly baptized with water; BUT YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST not many days hence.
Jesus gave this truth after he died for our sins, was buried and raised from the dead. These words were part of the last words he spoke before ascending to his Father.
Acts 1:2-9:
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
(3) To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
(4) And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he], ye have heard of me.
(5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
(6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
(7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
(8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
(9) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
His final command to them was; "BUT YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT." ...NOT WATER.
Kevin, you are teaching a false doctrine. You are defying the words of Christ.
Jesus also said to Nicodemus:
John 3:5-7:
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Except a man be BORN OF THE SPIRIT, HE "CANNOT ENTER" INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD. "YE MUST BE BORN OF THE SPIRIT."
Never once, in the scriptures, will you find "ye must be water baptized to enter into the Kingdom of God." There is NO salvation or eternal life received with H20, never was and never will be. "SPIRIT BAPTISM" is the ONE and ONLY ONE TRUE BAPTISM.
Now can the Word of God, TRUTH, make it MORE PLAIN? I think not.
Please Note:
(I hope everyone can see how Kevin writes his own bible.
One example out of numerous ones, Kevin states: "AFTER he was baptized, he went on his way, rejoicing... having a good conscience towards God."
Note how he ties in what is written in Peter, with what's written concerning the eunuch. He ADDS HIS OWN WORDS to "after he was baptized he went on his way rejoicing...WORDS ADDED...> "having a good conscience towards God."
Does it say that??...NO IT DOES NOT. He does this all the time concerning different subjects within God's Word.
Here he does it to try to convince others that the eunuch was not baptized with the holy spirit, but with water only. The eunuch, within the context, went away rejoicing because Philip expounded the scriptures to the eunuch and preached Christ to him. Philip, who was already baptized himself with the holy spirit and born again, led the eunuch, who believed what Philip taught concerning Christ, into being baptized according to what Jesus Christ taught..."BUT YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST." This is the true reason why the eunuch could walk away "rejoicing." He was born of the Spirit and he had entrance into the Kingdom of God.
Now that's the truth of God's Word.
So sneaky of you Kevin...tsk, tsk.
Agape
I quoted the same verse , and even the word you said are the same as mine.
Did you copy one of my post or the Holy Spirit spoke to you the same he spoke to me???
God bless you:up:
Evangelion
New member
Well, we all know what AVmetro would say...
agape
New member
What same verse? I used a number of verses. Why would I need to copy what you posted? The words I used are not the same as yours. I stated it in my own way from my working the Word of God. I don't copy anything posted here. If I did, I would specifically state so.
However, it's nice to know that we both agree that Spirit Baptism is the one and only true baptism that gives us the entranceway into the kingdom of God. :up:
c.moore
New member
Quote by agape
However, it's nice to know that we both agree that Spirit Baptism is the one and only true baptism that gives us the entranceway into the kingdom of God.
__________________
Quote c.moore
I pray that other would see and understand the gospel as well.
the thing with Kevin Agape is that he has more his faith on the visible things, and we are on the invisible things which the flesh can`t understand.
The belief the water baptism people have is putting the tree before any seed is planted, and the tree has to be fully grown to be accepted as the tree, get the point Agape.
Every where in the bible mention baptism is water baptism to them to hold thier own doctrine up, they must add it in thier interpretations.
What a shame,but that thier opinion.
God bless you
However, it's nice to know that we both agree that Spirit Baptism is the one and only true baptism that gives us the entranceway into the kingdom of God.
__________________
Quote c.moore
I pray that other would see and understand the gospel as well.
the thing with Kevin Agape is that he has more his faith on the visible things, and we are on the invisible things which the flesh can`t understand.
The belief the water baptism people have is putting the tree before any seed is planted, and the tree has to be fully grown to be accepted as the tree, get the point Agape.
Every where in the bible mention baptism is water baptism to them to hold thier own doctrine up, they must add it in thier interpretations.
What a shame,but that thier opinion.
God bless you
agape
New member
LOL...only in the new bible you are writing.
Oh please Kevin, I've been there, already gave my explanation explaining that Peter was talking about "spiritual water"...not water baptism. Please find and read.
They were baptized with the holy spirit and began to speak with tongues. You need to read both chapter 10 and 11 to understand more fully...maybe it will finally sink into your head that John baptized with water...BUT...BUT ..."BUT YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST..."
So what is your point? In the OT the God allowed His spirit to be upon certain people so that God could give them the revelation they needed to know, which they could not know by their five senses. They prophesied what God told them. Numbers 11:25 has nothing to do with "baptism" at all...except in your new writing of the bible.
What put them INTO Christ could only be accomplished by their being baptized with HOLY SPIRIT...NOT WATER. AFTER Paul explained to them that AFTER John came CHRIST JESUS. He preached CHRIST. They HEARD and believed and were baptized with the HOLY SPIRIt...NOT WATER.
THEN Paul laid hands on them and prayed that they would manifest the ALREADY SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM...THEY SPOKE IN TONGUES AND PROPHESIED.
Plain and simple.
In the name of the Lord has nothing to do with whether one is baptized in water or in spirit...LOL. Acts 10:47-48 is proof that they were not water baptized but were baptized in the holy spirit...For JESUS SAID: "...BUT YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST NOT MANY DAYS HENCE." They were baptized in the holy spirit and they spoke in tongues which was evidence of their receiving the gift of holy spirit. NO WATER.
It doesn't take a Bible scholar to realize that Jesus is exaplaining the concept that one must be reborn in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus answers this question by saying that one needs to be born of water and the spirit to be reborn,[/quote]It may not take a bible scholar, but it does take one who honestly does II Timothy 2:15 which does not include writing one's own bible such as you do. You still continue to twist God's Word around to make it say what you only want it to say such as you are now doing with John 3:5-7. Jesus plainly states: John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Also, in verse 3; "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Jesus makes it very clear that a person needs to be born again of the Spirit. We are not RE-Born of our first birth, of course... nor are we re-born of spiritual birth because we never had a spiritual birth to do it again. We are BORN AGAIN. The "again" means we were born in the flesh the first time (from our mother's womb where there is water)...born of water...and then we are born AGAIN...a new birth...with HOLY SPIRIT. Get it now? Sheesh...
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH;....
...and THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.
We are first born of our parents...the physical, fleshy birth...then we are "born AGAIN" with the HOLY SPIRIT.
Also note what Jesus stated is exactly what was practiced in the NT (Acts 10:47-48, Acts 2:38).
Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water [louo = to bathe, wash, of a dead person, washing to cleanse blood out of the wounds]
This has nothing to do with being "baptized in water." Having their bodies washed with pure water indicates ceremonial washing or cleansing. See Exodus 30:18-24.
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Evangelion
New member
ROTFL... Perhaps the Holy Spirit is plagiarising! Or maybe "he" is writing all your posts, and c.moore's posts, and Agape's posts!
Or maybe "he" is writing all your posts, and c.moore's posts, and Agape's posts! agape –
Admonishment for your post of yesterday...
Just as Peter and John did in Acts 8:17, so did Paul in Acts 19. By the laying on of the apostles hands the HS was given.
-This is not how it happened in Acts 2.
-It is not how it happened in Acts 10.
-This is NOT HS baptism and there is nothing in Acts 19 to indicate that it is!
But as I read that second paragraph of yours, YOU become confusing (again). It is strange that you claim the Ephesians were baptized with the HS, YET Paul AFTERWARD had to PRAY and LAY his hands on them to “manifest the greatness” of that same HS. Adding that to your own interpretation is what caused you to err!
The truly odd thing about your position on John 3:5, is that you think it should read, “Except a man be born of water and water, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” I guess this can only make sense to someone who thinks a confession with the mouth is an internal thought.
One more thing you have taken out of context perpetually - “you shall be baptized with the HS not many days hence..” C’mon agape, establish the context! You stick this into every passage where you want to have the HS baptism “appear”. In Acts 1:5 and also Luke 24:49, the Christ was talking to, and promising the HS to the apostles ONLY. Please stop abusing this passage – follow CONTEXT !!
Admonishment for your post of yesterday...
Well-well… you gave us some “math exegesis” there in more than just one place (that is, you made your own ADDITIONS).
Just as Peter and John did in Acts 8:17, so did Paul in Acts 19. By the laying on of the apostles hands the HS was given.
-This is not how it happened in Acts 2.
-It is not how it happened in Acts 10.
-This is NOT HS baptism and there is nothing in Acts 19 to indicate that it is!
But as I read that second paragraph of yours, YOU become confusing (again). It is strange that you claim the Ephesians were baptized with the HS, YET Paul AFTERWARD had to PRAY and LAY his hands on them to “manifest the greatness” of that same HS. Adding that to your own interpretation is what caused you to err!
Actually, this is NOT a hendiadys. I would invite all readers here to look at the definition for themselves. However, IF it were, it would certainly support what I have already said in this thread. That is, it takes TWO agents to accomplish the “new birth” – WATER and SPIRIT. Thus the two agents equal the one water baptism as authorized by Jesus Christ! So it would not have been a problem for me! (Now let’s look at how you attempt to wedge “water” into HS baptism ??)
Ah yes, another slight twist of the words here agape – “spiritual water”?? No, it says rivers of “living water”. Unfortunately for you, this metonymy is not used in John 3 as you would like to so disingenuously suggest to us. There is no context for your error there!
The truly odd thing about your position on John 3:5, is that you think it should read, “Except a man be born of water and water, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” I guess this can only make sense to someone who thinks a confession with the mouth is an internal thought.
One more thing you have taken out of context perpetually - “you shall be baptized with the HS not many days hence..” C’mon agape, establish the context! You stick this into every passage where you want to have the HS baptism “appear”. In Acts 1:5 and also Luke 24:49, the Christ was talking to, and promising the HS to the apostles ONLY. Please stop abusing this passage – follow CONTEXT !!
agape
New member
I just don't know who I am dealing with here. How old are you? I'm thinking somewhere within the range of 7-12 years of age.Originally posted by Evangelion
ROTFL... Perhaps the Holy Spirit is plagiarising!
agape
New member
Apollos,
Another one who is "all wet."
You are another one of those PI's. Keep up the poor work.
Everything you stated in your post is totally false and of private interpretation only. You can get wet all you want. As for me, I'll stand with the truth of God's Word.
Acts 1:5: For John truly baptized with water; BUT ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
I suggest you and all the water people get together, pray for God to open the eyes of your understanding and then attempt to do a real genuine study of God's Word II Timothy 2:15-Style.
Also, I suggest you learn about figures of speech, cuz you need all the knowledge you can get. You don't know what you are talking about. I also suggest you buy Bullinger's "Figures of Speech Used in the in the Bible" where I got the info from word for word. I don't go twisting any words around which you along with others so easily do.
PS: Sorry, but this is as worthy a response I can give to your very sloppy and unworthy post.
Another one who is "all wet."
You are another one of those PI's. Keep up the poor work.
Everything you stated in your post is totally false and of private interpretation only. You can get wet all you want. As for me, I'll stand with the truth of God's Word.
Acts 1:5: For John truly baptized with water; BUT ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
I suggest you and all the water people get together, pray for God to open the eyes of your understanding and then attempt to do a real genuine study of God's Word II Timothy 2:15-Style.
Also, I suggest you learn about figures of speech, cuz you need all the knowledge you can get. You don't know what you are talking about. I also suggest you buy Bullinger's "Figures of Speech Used in the in the Bible" where I got the info from word for word. I don't go twisting any words around which you along with others so easily do.
PS: Sorry, but this is as worthy a response I can give to your very sloppy and unworthy post.
Evangelion
New member
Wow, that was a compelling argument.
Water, water everywhere - but no truth for agape...
Water, water everywhere - but no truth for agape...
agape -
You have a "concrete" mind - completely mixed-up and firmly set (in error).
I was truly hoping for a more eloquent repsonse from you, knowing that God's word is His power to save man today, but I see not even He can reach you.
I do not regret taking the time for that post. I know there are those out there searching for truth and I know my last post can help them find it!
I hope that you will someday actually attempt to address the questions I presented to you, and in searching for the truth, you will find the salvation that God is offering you and all others who are lost!
(Oh yes, I have Bullinger's book - it is very good. BUT he was NOT inspired and can make mistakes like any other man!)
Water, water everywhere - but no truth for agape...
agape -
You have a "concrete" mind - completely mixed-up and firmly set (in error).
I was truly hoping for a more eloquent repsonse from you, knowing that God's word is His power to save man today, but I see not even He can reach you.
I do not regret taking the time for that post. I know there are those out there searching for truth and I know my last post can help them find it!
I hope that you will someday actually attempt to address the questions I presented to you, and in searching for the truth, you will find the salvation that God is offering you and all others who are lost!
(Oh yes, I have Bullinger's book - it is very good. BUT he was NOT inspired and can make mistakes like any other man!)
agape
New member
Re: Water, water everywhere - but no truth for agape...
Re: Water, water everywhere - but no truth for agape...
Re: Water, water everywhere - but no truth for agape...
I do have a concrete mind which is clearly and firmly set on the Truth of God's Word.
I only give a more eloquent response to someone who offers a more eloquent post, which in this case is certainly not you.
It would be far more valuable if you took the time to rightly divide the Word of Truth instead of just slipping in your own PI.
I hope someday you will actually do II Timothy 2:15 with all diligence and all honesty before God and before man.
He was not perfect; however he was inspired in more ways when it came to handling God's Word, which is more than I can say for you with your sloppy handling of God's Word. You can't even hold a candle to Bullinger's face when it comes to working the Word of God.
Evangelion
New member
ROTFL...
c.moore
New member
It may not take a bible scholar, but it does take one who honestly does II Timothy 2:15 which does not include writing one's own bible such as you do. You still continue to twist God's Word around to make it say what you only want it to say such as you are now doing with John 3:5-7. Jesus plainly states: John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Also, in verse 3; "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."Originally posted by agape
LOL...only in the new bible you are writing.
Oh please Kevin, I've been there, already gave my explanation explaining that Peter was talking about "spiritual water"...not water baptism. Please find and read.
They were baptized with the holy spirit and began to speak with tongues. You need to read both chapter 10 and 11 to understand more fully...maybe it will finally sink into your head that John baptized with water...BUT...BUT ..."BUT YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST..."
So what is your point? In the OT the God allowed His spirit to be upon certain people so that God could give them the revelation they needed to know, which they could not know by their five senses. They prophesied what God told them. Numbers 11:25 has nothing to do with "baptism" at all...except in your new writing of the bible. :rolleyes"
What put them INTO Christ could only be accomplished by their being baptized with HOLY SPIRIT...NOT WATER. AFTER Paul explained to them that AFTER John came CHRIST JESUS. He preached CHRIST. They HEARD and believed and were baptized with the HOLY SPIRIt...NOT WATER.
THEN Paul laid hands on them and prayed that they would manifest the ALREADY SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM...THEY SPOKE IN TONGUES AND PROPHESIED.
Plain and simple.
In the name of the Lord has nothing to do with whether one is baptized in water or in spirit...LOL. Acts 10:47-48 is proof that they were not water baptized but were baptized in the holy spirit...For JESUS SAID: "...BUT YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST NOT MANY DAYS HENCE." They were baptized in the holy spirit and they spoke in tongues which was evidence of their receiving the gift of holy spirit. NO WATER.
It doesn't take a Bible scholar to realize that Jesus is exaplaining the concept that one must be reborn in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus answers this question by saying that one needs to be born of water and the spirit to be reborn,
Jesus makes it very clear that a person needs to be born again of the Spirit. We are not RE-Born of our first birth, of course... nor are we re-born of spiritual birth because we never had a spiritual birth to do it again. We are BORN AGAIN. The "again" means we were born in the flesh the first time (from our mother's womb where there is water)...born of water...and then we are born AGAIN...a new birth...with HOLY SPIRIT. Get it now? Sheesh...
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH;....
...and THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.
We are first born of our parents...the physical, fleshy birth...then we are "born AGAIN" with the HOLY SPIRIT.
Also note what Jesus stated is exactly what was practiced in the NT (Acts 10:47-48, Acts 2:38).
Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water [louo = to bathe, wash, of a dead person, washing to cleanse blood out of the wounds]
This has nothing to do with being "baptized in water." Having their bodies washed with pure water indicates ceremonial washing or cleansing. See Exodus 30:18-24. [/QUOTE]
Agape most of this water baptismo scuba divers don`t want to understand what the bbok of Acts is al about.
if they understand about Acts theyy might get the message, and the devil will be mad.
Keep up the truth, and facts,they might get it after 40 years going through the internet
:up: God bless