elected4ever
New member
Melody, I hope you don't really believe that trash you just posted.
c.moore, Jesus is King not Father. Jesus's Father is our Father also.
c.moore, Jesus is King not Father. Jesus's Father is our Father also.
The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
- Start date
Melody
New member
What is it that you are objecting to specifically?
Jesus and the father are one.
Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one
And he came in his father's name.
Jhn 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Jhn 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Jhn 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we [are].
Jesus came in the father's name and we are saved through that name.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
And we are to be baptized in ONE name.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Act 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
elected4ever
New member
Two things Melody. First-Speeking in toungs is no sign of salvation on its own and all did not receive the same gift from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gave gifts as He will and not as you will.
Second - Hope is not wishfull thinking but a sure and certain knowledge. If you don't know you are saved today ,you just may not be. I don't care how many times you were baptized.
Second - Hope is not wishfull thinking but a sure and certain knowledge. If you don't know you are saved today ,you just may not be. I don't care how many times you were baptized.
Melody
New member
None of us are saved today unless we have reached the end of our journey and are face to face with Him.
Salvation is not a one time work but a continuing journey.
A race as Paul put it.
Jesus said that if you believe you "shall" speak in new tongues.
and his message was to "all" believers.
Salvation is not a one time work but a continuing journey.
A race as Paul put it.
Jesus said that if you believe you "shall" speak in new tongues.
and his message was to "all" believers.
Kevin
New member
Round and round we go...
Round and round we go...
c.moore,
Easy refutement: I, and many believers know that water baptism is a requirement for salvation.
Well, that's ok, because you're not preaching the gospel the apostles preached in the first place. The apostles included the message of baptism for the remission of sins, you don't. You think baptism is merely a symbol of outward faith for other Christians, which has no Biblical support. You were taught that definition of baptism by man and you cling onto it for dear life. Your lack of understanding is further illustrated by referring to baptism as "scubadiving". Way to mock what Jesus instituted.
Agreed. That's why we get baptized. We put off our old man of sin and become alive to God, no longer being separated from Him (Romans 6:11)! Paul, who wrote Romans, practiced water baptism in the name of the Lord. (Acts 19:4-5) That's how it's done.
This is another example of you hunting through the Bible, finding a verse, and claiming that if we do this one thing we are saved. Going by your logic (you like to find a verse and say "No mention of baptism there"), I could say, there's no mention of the blood of Jesus in Romans 6:13. The Bible mentions the need to repent. No mention of repentance in your proof text. But I know better. I know that I should take everything the Bible tells me into consideration, just just a few select vereses. All of it is necessary, including baptism.
Indeed, at Paul's conversion, did he only call upon the name of the Lord? NO! He we baptized and he called on the name of the Lord (Acts 22:16). Anybody who accpets Christ into their hearts will not only call upon the name of the Lord, but they will obey the command of baptism, because that's what Paul and the other apostles taught. If all you have to do is call upon the name of the Lord, why didn't Paul just tell the people in Acts 19:5 to only confess the Lord? If confessing alone is all that's necessary, why did Jesus command baptism for all people? Why didn't He just tell them and have people only confess Him?
First of all, one isn't saved until Christ judges that person worthy of salvation, not before. Just what do you think the purpose of Judgement is if we are already saved before being juged?
Secondly, I could use the same argument with you about Mark 16:16: He who believes and is baptized will be saved. SAVED... with and (ed) at the end, just like your Romans proof text. But of course you won't give credence to it, even though it uses the same word (savED), because it doesn't happen to support your selective argument.
So your claiming that one can be saved BEFORE following Christ? Don't you realize that we follow Christ so what we CAN be saved? People who haven't yet followed Christ aren't in Christ, and therefore will not be saved unless they accept Him. You're totally backwards.
Round and round we go...
c.moore,
Easy refutement: I, and many believers know that water baptism is a requirement for salvation.
Well, that's ok, because you're not preaching the gospel the apostles preached in the first place. The apostles included the message of baptism for the remission of sins, you don't. You think baptism is merely a symbol of outward faith for other Christians, which has no Biblical support. You were taught that definition of baptism by man and you cling onto it for dear life. Your lack of understanding is further illustrated by referring to baptism as "scubadiving". Way to mock what Jesus instituted.
Agreed. That's why we get baptized. We put off our old man of sin and become alive to God, no longer being separated from Him (Romans 6:11)! Paul, who wrote Romans, practiced water baptism in the name of the Lord. (Acts 19:4-5) That's how it's done.
This is another example of you hunting through the Bible, finding a verse, and claiming that if we do this one thing we are saved. Going by your logic (you like to find a verse and say "No mention of baptism there"), I could say, there's no mention of the blood of Jesus in Romans 6:13. The Bible mentions the need to repent. No mention of repentance in your proof text. But I know better. I know that I should take everything the Bible tells me into consideration, just just a few select vereses. All of it is necessary, including baptism.
Indeed, at Paul's conversion, did he only call upon the name of the Lord? NO! He we baptized and he called on the name of the Lord (Acts 22:16). Anybody who accpets Christ into their hearts will not only call upon the name of the Lord, but they will obey the command of baptism, because that's what Paul and the other apostles taught. If all you have to do is call upon the name of the Lord, why didn't Paul just tell the people in Acts 19:5 to only confess the Lord? If confessing alone is all that's necessary, why did Jesus command baptism for all people? Why didn't He just tell them and have people only confess Him?
First of all, one isn't saved until Christ judges that person worthy of salvation, not before. Just what do you think the purpose of Judgement is if we are already saved before being juged?
Secondly, I could use the same argument with you about Mark 16:16: He who believes and is baptized will be saved. SAVED... with and (ed) at the end, just like your Romans proof text. But of course you won't give credence to it, even though it uses the same word (savED), because it doesn't happen to support your selective argument.
So your claiming that one can be saved BEFORE following Christ? Don't you realize that we follow Christ so what we CAN be saved? People who haven't yet followed Christ aren't in Christ, and therefore will not be saved unless they accept Him. You're totally backwards.
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Evangelion
New member
Yeah, and the whole "race" analogy looks pretty stupid if "salvation" is instant.
I wish people would think about this a little more...
I wish people would think about this a little more...
c.moore
New member
Quote c.moore
Confidence is like something, that you know ,that you know.
something that you put your trust in completly, like sitting in a chair knowing the chair, or coach won`t break.
I have confidence that you will read this post Melody.
Faith is believing the Word of God, and doing the word of God.
Ro:10:17: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Heb:11:1: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Peace
elected4ever
New member
That is the most rediculas statment I have heard yet, Melody. If you have spoken in toungs, it is that jeberish that passes for toungs these days. One thing is for sure ,You can quote scripture but you don't know what it means. You have lost your cridibility with me.
elected4ever
New member
Kevin and Evan are running neck and neck for second place. It is evident you are not christian. A religionest may be but you don't know Christ. Your own testamoney says so.
Evangelion
New member
Yeah! I'm like, so totally crushed!
c.moore
New member
Quote Kevin
First of all, one isn't saved until Christ judges that person worthy of salvation, not before. Just what do you think the purpose of Judgement is if we are already saved before being juged?
So your claiming that one can be saved BEFORE following Christ? Don't you realize that we follow Christ so what we CAN be saved? People who haven't yet followed Christ aren't in Christ, and therefore will not be saved unless they accept Him. You're totally backwards.
Quote c.moore
You mean to tell me I am not saved even if I got water baptized, filled with the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues, and Love the Lord with all my heart, and trust In Jesus, and believe , and do all that I can do for Jesus?????????
If this was true I just as well be a muslim, because I have then no assurance.
The bible says something like , Ro:8:1: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Joh:5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
How can somebody hear the word after they are dead??
Why should somebody need to believe while being judged??
Look at the two things in the verse that give you eternal life, and with no condemnation.
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemne but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
There is no judgement day yet, but the person is Already condemned, says the bible.
NOW is the time for salvation!
The Judgement is for our rewards,according to our faithfulness, and obedience,and works.
Eph:6:6: Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Eph:6:7: With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
Eph:6:8: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
Jer:17:10: I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings
Proverb:13:13: Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded.
2Co:5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
1Co:3:13: Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co:3:14: If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co:3:15: If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer lossbut he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Re:21:6: And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Re:21:7: He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Re:21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
You saideople who haven't yet followed Christ aren't in Christ, and therefore will not be saved unless they accept Him.
I am really confussed at this because you just said only at the judement day are we saved, and now you say if we just accept Jesus we are saved.
The bible says NOW,NOW NOW ,is the time of salvation.
Do you tell people , please accept Jesus as your Lord and savoir, but you still won`t be saved untill Jesus comes so you need alot of patience, and alot of hope for the end???
Let God bless you.
First of all, one isn't saved until Christ judges that person worthy of salvation, not before. Just what do you think the purpose of Judgement is if we are already saved before being juged?
So your claiming that one can be saved BEFORE following Christ? Don't you realize that we follow Christ so what we CAN be saved? People who haven't yet followed Christ aren't in Christ, and therefore will not be saved unless they accept Him. You're totally backwards.
Quote c.moore
You mean to tell me I am not saved even if I got water baptized, filled with the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues, and Love the Lord with all my heart, and trust In Jesus, and believe , and do all that I can do for Jesus?????????
If this was true I just as well be a muslim, because I have then no assurance.
The bible says something like , Ro:8:1: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Joh:5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
How can somebody hear the word after they are dead??
Why should somebody need to believe while being judged??
Look at the two things in the verse that give you eternal life, and with no condemnation.
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemne but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
There is no judgement day yet, but the person is Already condemned, says the bible.
NOW is the time for salvation!
The Judgement is for our rewards,according to our faithfulness, and obedience,and works.
Eph:6:6: Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Eph:6:7: With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
Eph:6:8: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
Jer:17:10: I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings
Proverb:13:13: Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded.
2Co:5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
1Co:3:13: Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co:3:14: If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co:3:15: If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer lossbut he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Re:21:6: And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Re:21:7: He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Re:21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
You said
eople who haven't yet followed Christ aren't in Christ, and therefore will not be saved unless they accept Him. I am really confussed at this because you just said only at the judement day are we saved, and now you say if we just accept Jesus we are saved.
The bible says NOW,NOW NOW ,is the time of salvation.
Do you tell people , please accept Jesus as your Lord and savoir, but you still won`t be saved untill Jesus comes so you need alot of patience, and alot of hope for the end???
Let God bless you.
elected4ever
New member
To Kevin, Melody @ evan
Galatians 3:1 ¶O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
Galatians 3:1 ¶O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
HopeofGlory
New member
The race is finished!
The race is finished!
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Heb. 12:1 (KJV)
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb. 12:2 (KJV)
When we place our faith in the cross our race is finished and we can claim the prize of eternal life. True faith is rewarded with hope that depends completely of the faith of Christ as the "finisher of our faith". Those who trust in their abilities do not have hope and feel they must endure to the end and Christ Jesus is not the "finisher" of their faith.
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 1 Cor. 9:24 (KJV)
Only "one" receives the prize. The "One" is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 1 Cor. 9:25 (KJV)
Many still run the race not realizing it has already been won. In the end they will receive a corruptible crown. Christ is the One and only winner. The race can only be won by complete faith in the finished work of Christ.
Faith in works is not faith in Christ!
In Christ
Craig
The race is finished!
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Heb. 12:1 (KJV)
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb. 12:2 (KJV)
When we place our faith in the cross our race is finished and we can claim the prize of eternal life. True faith is rewarded with hope that depends completely of the faith of Christ as the "finisher of our faith". Those who trust in their abilities do not have hope and feel they must endure to the end and Christ Jesus is not the "finisher" of their faith.
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 1 Cor. 9:24 (KJV)
Only "one" receives the prize. The "One" is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 1 Cor. 9:25 (KJV)
Many still run the race not realizing it has already been won. In the end they will receive a corruptible crown. Christ is the One and only winner. The race can only be won by complete faith in the finished work of Christ.
Faith in works is not faith in Christ!
In Christ
Craig
Evangelion
New member
Dan37 - I agree that we are not saved by the works of the Law. What's your point?
Freak - show me the place in the Bible where it says "You will go to hell if you don't believe in the Trinity, and if you believe that baptism is essential for salvation."
HopeofGlory -
But the passage you cited does not say this at all!
Freak - show me the place in the Bible where it says "You will go to hell if you don't believe in the Trinity, and if you believe that baptism is essential for salvation."
HopeofGlory -
But the passage you cited does not say this at all!
P
Pilgrimagain
Guest
"testamoney [sic]} Reminds me of Count deMoney from Mel Brooks' "History of the World."