The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[elected4ever]

That is fine with me Evangelon. I was just giving my understanding of the subject matter as you have given yours.

I do hope we can agree that Jesus is the Son of God, come in the flesh and is the only source of salvation under heaven.

 

[Evangelion]

No problems there, Dan. :up:

I'm with you all the way,

 

[JustAChristian]

What does "eis" mean?

What does "eis" mean?

Originally posted by Jerry Shugart
Melody,

The Lord did not tell anyoner to "repent and be baptized" for the remission of sins.

The people were told to repent for the remission of sins.And those that did repent for the remission of their sins were then baptized.

For example,Matthew 3:11 should read:

"I baptize you with water because of repentance."

In the KJV,this verse reads:

"I,indeed baptize you with water unto repentance..."

But the Greek word translated "unto" is from the Greek word,"eis".

That word is translated "at" in the following verse:

"They repented AT the preaching of Jonah"(Mt.12:41).

This verse is saying that they repented BECAUSE of the preaching of Jonah.

The correct rendering of Mt.3:11 is,"I baptize you with water because of repentance."

That is why Paul refused to baptize the Pharisees who came to be baptized.He did not think that they had truly repented and therefore had not had their sins forgiven.That is why he asked for proof of their repentance:

"Bring forth,therefore,fruits befitting repentance"(Mt.3:8).

He was saying,you must demonstate the reality of your change of mind from your pastway of living.If this change of mind is not present,then there is no need to be baptized.

Again,the water baptism was for those who had truly repented,and by this repentance they had received the forgiveness of sins.They did not receive the forgiveness of sins by submitting to the rite of water baptism.

In His grace,--Jerry

Jerry says:

The Lord did not tell anyoner to "repent and be baptized" for the remission of sins.

Paul was quick to say that the things he preached was that he received from the Lord (Acts 20:24; 1 Cor. 1:23). I have no doubt that what the apostles all only taught and preached what they had received from the Lord (See John 14:26).

The people were told to repent for the remission of sins. And those that did repent for the remission of their sins were then baptized.

In Acts 2:38, the word “repent” is an imperative in the Greek and is separated from “be baptized” with a coordinating conjunction. Equal power is given to these imperatives. What was required of one is required equally of the other. An imperative is a command. Therefore, there could not have been salvation before the command to be baptized. They were equally required for salvation.

For example,Matthew 3:11 should read: "I baptize you with water because of repentance."

“Eis” is in order to in the accusative case. Check it out! Not, normative, or genitive or dative. Strictly accusative In the KJV,this verse reads:

"I,indeed baptize you with water unto repentance..."

But the Greek word translated "unto" is from the Greek word,"eis".

That word is translated "at" in the following verse: "They repented AT the preaching of Jonah"(Mt.12:41).

Your translating is Calvinistic but not according to the Greek.

This verse is saying that they repented BECAUSE of the preaching of Jonah. The correct rendering of Mt.3:11 is,"I baptize you with water because of repentance."

Jerry,
You plainly show your lack of knowledge of the Greek language. In the accusative case "eis" is interpereted “in order that” never "because of". The preposition for “because” is dia. Do you need a lesson on the various cases in the Greek language? Let me know.

That is why Paul refused to baptize the Pharisees who came to be baptized. He did not think that they had truly repented and therefore had not had their sins forgiven. That is why he asked for proof of their repentance

Really! When did Paul ever refuse to baptize any Pharisees? Give me the verse.

"Bring forth,therefore,fruits befitting repentance"(Mt.3:8).

He was saying,you must demonstate the reality of your change of mind from your pastway of living.If this change of mind is not present,then there is no need to be baptized.

All the preacher preached that repentance was essential in order to (eis) be saved. Peter, preached, guided by the Holy Spirit that they were also to be baptized for the remission of sins. Acts 2:38. This wasn’t Holy Spirit baptism. In fact, where in the bible is found the phrase “Holy Spirit baptism”?

Again,the water baptism was for those who had truly repented, and by this repentance they had received the forgiveness of sins. They did not receive the forgiveness of sins by submitting to the rite of water baptism.

Jerry, Why do you continue to add to the scriptures. Repentance is a condition for salvation, but it is not the exclusive condition. Faith, confession, baptism and walking in newness of life is also conditions of salvation. Quit adding to the scriptures. Repent and do the first works!


Jerry accuses me of overlooking much of his post, and I say perhaps I have. But, what has Jerry said that sheds light on his false doctrine. I have asked him to show one case of modern Holy Spirit baptism like that of the 1st century and he has not done so. I now ask him to find the very term "Holy Spirit baptism" in the scriptures. We ought to speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent. Jerry needs to work on his Greek. If he is going to try to use external evidences (such as dictionaries), which he want allow me to use, the least he could do is get it right. Now, if you don't believe he discounted my using a dictionary to give the word "synecdoche" which I got from Webster"s Dictionary. At least I named my dictionary, he didn't!

JustAChristian

Mark 16:15-16 still says the same thing it said nearly 2000 years ago. Believe and obey it for salvation.

 

[elected4ever]

One of the meanings of the preposition “for” is “in order to obtain” but another meaning is “because of”. To remise is to surrender. The remission of something is the giving up or the discharge of something. an abatement. It speaks of process directed to an end.

To those who believe that in order to obtain the surrender of sin one must be baptized, more power to you. Need I remind you that sin surrenders to nothing. It is our surrendering of our sin nature and its work (sins) to Jesus that allows for the new birth. It is that sin nature and its work that we repent of and it is the abatement or process of that abatement that requires baptism. It is because of and not in order to obtain salvation. Baptism is an act of obedience to a command of God in order to attain the gift of gifts from the Holy Spirit that we are to use in our daily walk in this life on earth. At the same time baptism does not assure anyone of anything but there is no obedience without baptism. Our salvation is secured in heaven without water baptism but is essential for an obedient walk in the here and now.

 

[c.moore]

hello dan37

You Quoted:
The gift of the Holy Ghost (Spirit) is that which is received from the Holy Ghost. Not the Holy Ghost, Himself. This is not salvation. Salvation occurred when we believed in Christ Jesus. The Holy Ghost is the gift of Christ. The Holy Ghost is the administrator of a salvation received.


Baptism is a mark of public identification. At one time I worked in a garage and I wore a uniform to identify me as an employee of the company. The armed forces are the same. There is no such thing as a secret Christian. Baptism is an identifying act. I could care less weather it is by dipping, sprinkling or pouring. The act identifies a person as a believer in Christ Jesus to the society in which he lives and a point of remembrance to the person receiving the Baptism. Baptism is an act of obedience and if one refuses to be baptized then we as breathers have reason to suspect the sincerity of that individual.


Quote c.moore
very good bible teaching, and I agree with you and millions of other christian are with you, that why they got baptized showing their Identification for themselve , and for others.

the thing that most christian miss is that they think water baptism is salvation, "but", you said the correct teaching, Baptism is an act of obedience and if one refuses to be baptized then we as breathers have reason to suspect the sincerity of that individual.

praise God you rightly divide the Word of God.

God bless

 

[c.moore]

Melody

I hope you understood what dan37 explained , about Acts.

Noah could not build he boat unless he first believed, and the belief and trust in God is what made him obey.

The same is why we obey , because we first believe ,and we are already saved so we do get water baptized after being saved.

Even Abraham belief was accepted before God more than his works.

Before I seat in any chair I must believe that the chair first won`t break, and then after I do try to seat in the chair.
You think the othwer way around first work to seat and after seating then your believing might work.

Look Melody , do you believe what you see in the natural????
Of course not, because you see the truth with your eyes already and you don`t have to believe and hope for something that is already proof it is there. the unseen thing are that what we must believe. like I said before , you can`t put the carriot before the horses and expect to get to your distination .
Your doctrine of water baptism is the same as saying smoke before the fire.

Let God Bless you

 

[c.moore]

melody

What do you think that means in the name of Jesus?????

Do you think this mean a baptism must be SAID ,or the Words said in the name of Jesus in a baptism to be from God??????


Let God bless you

 

[c.moore]

melody
I thnk, and agree ,that dan 27 did a fine job in teaching what this means:Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You said:
Baptism is like the ark in that if you don't participate you don't get saved.

Noah and his family could have "believed" in the ark all they wanted but if they had not obeyed God and gotten on board they would have perished with the rest of the world.

You can "believe" in Jesus all you want but if you don't obey His instructions when the end comes you will be left out in the dark with the rest of this wicked world.


Quote c.moore

No, first you must believe the boat will save you.

The next thing is that you must trust that the boat won`t sink and you die in the boat.

the people at time must also believe that rain would come.

the next they must BELIEVE that God is with them so they don`t look like fools getting into a boat with no water.

They must also BELIEVE , and see them self ,coming out ok even before they get into the boat, and BELIEVE they are protected, having the confidence they are saved, because they are elected to come out ok.

When a person have this confideince they are saved by their belief, they will , and what to obey, and do anything God wants, because of the trust and knowing God is our protector , either from water or from Hell fire, because of our belief only ,that helps us to do God Will on earth as it is in Heaven. AMEN


Melody the rest of the world has no trust in nothing but themselves, and they are their own god`s, and they practise sinning, and think day in and day out all the evil they can do, even if it cost other people lives. the Worlds way is me, myself , and I, and they believe only on want they can do for themselves, not anything for Jesus, or for the kingdom of God.
Unbeliever don`t trust in Jesus even though they heard about jesus and even believe he died on the cross for all of us.
The believing and the trusting , bring forth the fruits of doing, or obeying, or working.

Melody , you need to talk to a family who adopted a child, and ask them if their adopted child didn`t obey, and had a problem keeping all the rule, would they send them back to the forster home, or kick them out of the family, and change his name so he would have no rights to anything in the family!

When you ask this family get back to me and let me know what they say, ok, and please don`t delay.

I really can`t change your doctrine for you , but I sure can warn you and many false doctrine christian , to show my love towards you, and other.
sorry, that I keep warning, and telling the truth ,it just the Jesus in me I can`t help it.

Let God Bless you

 

[c.moore]

I`ve been waiting so long for somebody to answer this
maybe someone else that believes in the water baptism is salvation can answer this, it`s really not hard, but I can prove a point from this.

at Joh:4:13: Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
Joh:4:14: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Joh:4:15: The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.

what water do you think this is that Jesus is talking about ?

Is this the natural water that she draws or is this a spiritual water?

if you say this is a spiritual water that flows from the inside of us then you can discern the same with the baptism.
the same way this is revealed about a natural thirst and a spirtual thirst is the same way we know about the baptism .


peace

 

[c.moore]

Hey JustAchristian
Check this out!
Christ's Baptism
John's baptism: The practice of baptism appears to be a purely New Testament practice. Any attempts at tracing its roots to the ceremonial washings of the priests in Levitical law are unsatisfactory. The Jews had established a rite of symbolic washing to initiate a converted Gentile (proselyte) into Judaism. Perhaps the similarity between this and John's baptism is what made it particularly odious to the Pharisees; John in effect was saying, "It is not just the Gentiles who are filthy and need cleansing, but you Jews as well." John's message was one and the same to the Roman soldier and the sanctimonious Jew, "Repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is near" [repent, (Greek: metanoeo) entails a remorse for sin that produces a radical change of thought and behavior].

John's baptism served two purposes:

First, it was preparatory, a means of calling sinners to repentance, in preparation for the coming of the Kingdom of God in the person of Jesus Christ. John was the voice in the wilderness prophesied by Isaiah whose message was, "Prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God." In effect, he was saying the highway on which this Most Holy King will tread must be paved by the repentance of his people.


Secondly, it was transitional, serving as a transition from the dispensation of the law and the prophets, (wherein the practice of baptism could not be found), and the dispensation of the gospel, which was initiated in the ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. "John came ... preaching a baptism of repentance " (i.e. a baptism characterized by repentance), "I baptize you with water for repentance" (i.e. not "for the purpose of producing repentance" but "for the purpose of proving repentance"). John was calling on the people to confess and turn from their sins, and to show the fruit of their repentance by submitting to baptism. Baptism then was to be an outward sign of an inward work, and this inward work of repentance was in anticipation of the coming of the Messiah.
Jesus' baptism: Knowing this, it is no wonder that John was surprised at Jesus' request to be baptized. Knowing that Jesus was the Messiah, the spotless Paschal lamb (as Jesus approached the Jordan, John referred to him as, "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world"), John could not understand why Jesus would submit himself to baptism. "John tried to deter him, saying 'I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?'" (Mt 3:14). Jesus' response, which at first seems cryptic, contains volumes: "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." He did not contradict John, making it clear that he was not being baptized, as were the others, as a sign of repentance for his own sins. In what sense was Jesus to fulfill all righteousness by this act? This was fundamentally an act of obedience to the Father, not the fulfilling of a legal requirement. It was an outward manifestation of an inward righteousness that Jesus already possessed, just as baptism was an outward expression of inward repentance for those John baptized.

In baptism, as in many other aspects of his life and ministry, Jesus was deliberately and consciously establishing a standard of behavior. By being baptized, he was setting an example for his disciples to follow. As Jesus began his earthly ministry with baptism, so he commands his disciples to begin their life of service to him in baptism. In this sense, it is an "initiatory sign" just as circumcision was in the old covenant. It is a sign of our being initiated into covenant relationship with God in Jesus Christ. "In him you were also circumcised... with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism..." (Col 2:11&12). In this act, Jesus was foreshadowing his greatest act of obedience, submitting to death on the cross. Even in Jesus' day, the Jordan river was seen as a type of death, which all must cross to enter the celestial "promised land." Baptism itself was seen as a symbolic death and burial. This is what Paul alludes to in Romans 6, "We were buried with him through baptism into death."

This ties in with the idea that Christ's baptism was also an act of identification. As the Incarnation was the supreme act of God identifying with sinful man, so in his baptism, he who was without sin identifies with the sins of Israel by being baptized, again prefiguring the culmination of his identification with man's sin, when he bore the penalty for our sins as though they were his own, dying a criminal's death on the cross. By this death, not only is our guilt imputed to him, but his righteousness is imputed to us as well. In this way, truly all righteousness is fulfilled. And, just as Christ identifies with us in his baptism, so we are identified and united with him in baptism, both in his death (justification, consecration) and in his resurrection (sanctification, glorification) Rom 6:3-7, Col 2:11-12

So we see that Christ's baptism has given Christian baptism rich meaning:

repentance (turning from sin)
obedience and discipleship (acknowledging him as Lord)
identification with Christ (acknowledging Christ as Savior and following his example)
identification with Christ in his death (dying to the world, the flesh and the devil)
identification with Christ in his resurrection (living in the power and holiness of the risen Christ, and anticipation of our own glorious resurrection)


Let Jesus bless you
peace, and it`s al about love.

 

[JustAChristian]

Originally posted by dan37
One of the meanings of the preposition “for” is “in order to obtain” but another meaning is “because of”. To remise is to surrender. The remission of something is the giving up or the discharge of something. an abatement. It speaks of process directed to an end.

To those who believe that in order to obtain the surrender of sin one must be baptized, more power to you. Need I remind you that sin surrenders to nothing. It is our surrendering of our sin nature and its work (sins) to Jesus that allows for the new birth. It is that sin nature and its work that we repent of and it is the abatement or process of that abatement that requires baptism. It is because of and not in order to obtain salvation. Baptism is an act of obedience to a command of God in order to attain the gift of gifts from the Holy Spirit that we are to use in our daily walk in this life on earth. At the same time baptism does not assure anyone of anything but there is no obedience without baptism. Our salvation is secured in heaven without water baptism but is essential for an obedient walk in the here and now.

In Acts 2:38, eis is in the accusative case and means " in order to"

JustAChristian

 

[elected4ever]

Salvation is a completed act in the here an now and is all so a work in progress to be finished at some future date. That date is the death of our physical bodies or it’s transfiguration at the coming of the Lord Jesus; whichever comes first. Until that time comes we are trapped in this body of earthly existence. After we have passed from this body we shell forever be with the Lord and become as He is. This is our future.

Salvation is past, our conversion experience, present, or present sanctification experience, and our glorification, our future glorified body experience. We as Christians often get the three mixed up.

This is why I love to discuss these subjects with the brothers. I can’t tell you how many times I have changed my opinions because I was wrong. To consider the changing of my beliefs is sometimes quite painful because of the pride resident in this physical existence. When we think we are attacked our natural instinct is to fight back and to become more hardened in our error. This subject is hard because baptism is a part of the salvation experience. I have no doubt of you salvation and this is not an attack on you are those who shear your views. This is a teaching and learning experience for me and I hope for you as well.

“For the remission of sins”. Consider for a moment that time when you came to know the Lord Jesus as Savior. Remember the release that was experienced at that time. Such joy that I felt was beyond description. Little did I know of the life that awaited me. I knew no theology but I trusted in those who had authority over me and they said I needed to be baptized and I was. That was 45 years ago. My life has been a work in progress from that time to this. This is the work of sanctification. I was sanctified then by the blood of the Lamb and the seed of the Father. I had been set apart, not from the human race but for future glorification. Baptism is part of the process of sanctification. I was at once sanctified and have continued to be sanctified by the work of the Holy Spirit. Baptism is the the beginning of the process of living the Christian life, my first act of obedience to the Christ who saved me. Yes, I was baptized “because of” the remission of sins.

When cancer is in remission the cancer is being defeated. I was baptized because my sin was and is today being defeated. Not by baptism but by the life given to me by the Christ I love and the Father who has placed His seed within me and made me one of own. Because I surrendered my sin to a Savior who loved me and gave Himself for me. Because sin ,which is no longer mine, is in remission.

Regardless of your insistence, because of is as valid a meaning of the preposition "for" as, in order to. In this case it is the best understanding.

 

[Melody]

Under the Law, remission of sin came only through the blood sacrifice, Jesus became our sacrifice for all time.

To apply that blood to our lives we must be baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS.

All power and authority has been given to that name and THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED.

I have adopted a child and that child now has my NAME. how do we obtain the name of Jesus on our lives. by baptism IN HIS NAME.

15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Remission of sins comes in HIS NAME

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

And How are we told to receive that remittance? Through baptism in HIS NAME!


Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Where the apostle's consistant in this teaching and practice?

YES!

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Act 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Not one time is there mention of baptism in the titles of the trinity. For they truly understood what that ONE NAME was. JESUS CHRIST!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

JustAChristian,

Let us lok at Acts2:38 and see if your interpretation of that verse is supported or refuted by any other Scriptures:

"Repent,and be baptized,evey one of you,in the name of Jesus Christ,for the remission of sins,and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

If your interpreatation is correct,then no one would receive remission of sins OR the gift of the Holy Spirit until they were water baptized.

But we know that when Peter preached the gospel to Cornelius,he repented (had a change of mind) and he also recived the "gift of the Holy Spirit",but he had not yet been water baptized:

"While Peter yet spoke these words,the Holy Spirit fell on all them who heard the word"(Acts10:44).

So according to ACTUAL EXPERIENCE recorded in the Scriptures,it is NOT necessary for the believer to be water baptized in order to receive the "gift of the Holy Spirit",nor is it necessary for him to be baptized in water in order to receive remission of sins.

The correct reading of Acts 2:38 is the following:

"Repent (and let each one be baptized because of the forgiveness of sins),and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

In HIs grace,--Jerry

 

[elected4ever]

Melody, I will agree that there must be an identity with Christ and there must be obedeance to His command if we are to be used of the Holy Spirit. I am not belittleing baptism. It is a must if we are to be obedient servents. We must be baptised if we are to be useful servent of the Holy Spirit in our earthly Minestry. This is not the same as salvation, but how can one profess to be saved and refuse to be baptized? Baptism is the first act of an obedeant servent.

 

[Melody]

SOO, if you don't agree with the scriptures, you rewrite them?


You are treading on dangerous territory.

Remittance goes beyond forgiveness. Through remittance we are delivered from the bondage of sin which we are born into and are reborn into a new life. Through baptism in the name of Jesus we are literally spirtually born into a new family. The family of Christ. And we take on his name. Through the gift of the Holy Ghost we recieve the power to continue to walk and commune with Jesus, because it is His spirit within us.

aphesis {af'-es-is}


AV - remission 9, forgiveness 6, deliverance 1, liberty 1; 17

1) release from bondage or imprisonment
2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they
had never been committed), remission of the penalty

calach {saw-lakh'}

AV - forgive 19, forgiven 13, pardon 13, spare 1; 46

1) to forgive, pardon

 

[elected4ever]

I will be looking for your apology,Melody. What you just wrote is a flat out lie and unnessary. I will nolonger respond to someone of such a hatefull disposition. Are you sure your a born again believer?

 

[JustAChristian]

Baptism for the remission of sins.

Baptism for the remission of sins.

Originally posted by dan37
Salvation is a completed act in the here an now and is all so a work in progress to be finished at some future date. That date is the death of our physical bodies or it’s transfiguration at the coming of the Lord Jesus; whichever comes first. Until that time comes we are trapped in this body of earthly existence. After we have passed from this body we shell forever be with the Lord and become as He is. This is our future.

Salvation is past, our conversion experience, present, or present sanctification experience, and our glorification, our future glorified body experience. We as Christians often get the three mixed up.

This is why I love to discuss these subjects with the brothers. I can’t tell you how many times I have changed my opinions because I was wrong. To consider the changing of my beliefs is sometimes quite painful because of the pride resident in this physical existence. When we think we are attacked our natural instinct is to fight back and to become more hardened in our error. This subject is hard because baptism is a part of the salvation experience. I have no doubt of you salvation and this is not an attack on you are those who shear your views. This is a teaching and learning experience for me and I hope for you as well.

“For the remission of sins”. Consider for a moment that time when you came to know the Lord Jesus as Savior. Remember the release that was experienced at that time. Such joy that I felt was beyond description. Little did I know of the life that awaited me. I knew no theology but I trusted in those who had authority over me and they said I needed to be baptized and I was. That was 45 years ago. My life has been a work in progress from that time to this. This is the work of sanctification. I was sanctified then by the blood of the Lamb and the seed of the Father. I had been set apart, not from the human race but for future glorification. Baptism is part of the process of sanctification. I was at once sanctified and have continued to be sanctified by the work of the Holy Spirit. Baptism is the the beginning of the process of living the Christian life, my first act of obedience to the Christ who saved me. Yes, I was baptized “because of” the remission of sins.

When cancer is in remission the cancer is being defeated. I was baptized because my sin was and is today being defeated. Not by baptism but by the life given to me by the Christ I love and the Father who has placed His seed within me and made me one of own. Because I surrendered my sin to a Savior who loved me and gave Himself for me. Because sin ,which is no longer mine, is in remission.

Regardless of your insistence, because of is as valid a meaning of the preposition "for" as, in order to. In this case it is the best understanding.

dan37,

I sense your sincerity and hope for your salvation, nontheless, I must continue to point out that remission of sins comes after the obedient receiption of baptism. Peter made it very plain, "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins". These two imperatives are preceed the accusative preposition "eis" and the extention of the sentence which is accusative. In the accusative, eis means "in order that" and never means "because of" Only a bias translation will make it such. There are some bias translations out there but, scholars like William D. Mounce in his book "Basics of Biblical Greek, page 297 says., "eis (accusative) meaning "in order that" (indicating purpose). We see the purpose is for the remission of sins. Any other structure is fruitless. Christ shed his blood "in order that" man's sins would be forgiven. He did not shed his blood "because of" man's forgivness. Anyone who holds to a conclusion that salvation was before baptism had no scriptural bases for such a stand.

JustAChristian

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Melody,

You wrote:

"Not one time is there mention of baptism in the titles of the trinity."

Can you explain the following words from the lips of the Lord and Savior?:

"Go ye,therefore,and teach all nations,baptizing them in the name of the Father,and of the Son,and of the Holy Spirit"(Mt.28:20).

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[JustAChristian]

Originally posted by c.moore
Hey JustAchristian
Check this out!
Christ's Baptism
...So we see that Christ's baptism has given Christian baptism rich meaning:

repentance (turning from sin)
obedience and discipleship (acknowledging him as Lord)
identification with Christ (acknowledging Christ as Savior and following his example)
identification with Christ in his death (dying to the world, the flesh and the devil)
identification with Christ in his resurrection (living in the power and holiness of the risen Christ, and anticipation of our own glorious resurrection)


Let Jesus bless you
peace, and it`s al about love.

c.moore,

There are but two passages of Scripture that tell us how one gets into Christ. In Rom. 6:3 Paul wrote, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" Again he wrote, "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal. 3:27). How does one get into Christ? Paul's answer -- one is "baptized into Christ." There is no other way into Christ! We get into Christ in precisely the same way that we get into the one body (1 Cor. 12:13), therefore, being in Christ is the same thing as being in his body, the church.

Symbolism needs to be understood in order to give proper biblical interpretation. Water is symbolized as a grave in Romans 6. We are buried in the grave of water. A grave consist of a hole, dirt and covering up. When we understand this we can understand the implications of the burial. Not only did Paul say that we are baptized into Jesus Christ (Rom. 6:3), but he goes on to say that we are "baptized into his death." It was in Christ's death that he shed his blood, and his blood is that which remits sin. However, we must come into contact with his blood before our sins can be remitted. Where do we contact the blood of Christ? Paul tells us that it is in baptism. If he shed his blood in his death (and he did), and we are baptized into his death (and we are), then it is in baptism that we come into contact with the blood of Christ, which is able to remit sin. If not, why not?

In the latter part of Gal. 3:27, Paul states that in baptism we "put on Christ." Again we come to symbolism. Let me use a very simple illustration which all should be able to understand. Until a person puts on his coat, he is out of the coat. Once he has put the coat on, he is in the coat. Just so it is in our relation to Christ. We are out of Christ until we put Christ on, and Paul plainly states that we put Christ on in baptism. Therefore, until one is baptized "into Christ" he is out of Christ, because he has not put Christ on! I can hardly see how anyone can possibly misunderstand such plain, simple language, and yet there are thousands who seemingly cannot understand this, because they shout long and loud that baptism is not essential to salvation.

The apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit and those who believed Peter's preaching were baptized in water in the name of Christ on the same day. Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Spirit and the same day, likely within the same hour, was baptized in water in the name of Christ.
Jesus told Nicodemus that without being "born of water and of the Spirit" one can not enter this spiritual family, the church (John 3:1-8). "Born of water and of the Spirit" refers to the one new birth, accomplished when one is baptized in water according to (or, as directed by) the Holy Spirit (John 3:3-5).

Holy Spirit baptism was never given as a command. How could it be? It was administered by deity, not men. And it was administered at a time and under circumstances chosen by deity, not by men. Water baptism, on the other hand, was given by command (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47,48; Acts 22:16). This is a baptism administered by men. And it is a baptism men submit to of their own volition at a time of their choosing, in obedience to the Lord's command.

The one baptism of Eph. 4 is Christian era baptism. It is the baptism that is commanded. And it was designed to remain in effect until the end. It is not the baptism of John. It is not the baptism of fire. And it is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Christian era baptism consists of immersion in water (Acts 8:38). Its prerequisites are faith, repentance, and confession (Mark 16:15,16; Acts 2:38; Acts 8:37). It, therefore, is not for infants. It is administered in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19,20). And it is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16).

Summarizing, let us say that baptism produces forgiveness of sins because it is at this point of obedience that one comes in contact with the death of Christ. It is only in the death of Christ that we may find salvation. And it is only in baptism that we may contact the death of Christ (Rom. 6:1-6). Paul affirms that we are baptized into his death, that is the death of Christ, and that is very important. Some contend that baptism only symbolizes a dying to sin on our part, in turning from our sins; that the only death connected with baptism is the spiritual dying to sin that occurs within us. But this simply is not true. It is true that a dying to sin occurs within us in conversion. But it is not true that this dying to sin is all that baptism represents. Paul's teaching is that we are baptized into the death of Jesus. So remember, now, we are baptized into the one body (1 Cor. 12:13); Christ is the savior of the body (Eph. 5:23); we are baptized into Christ (Rom. 6:3; Gal. 3:27); into his death (Rom. 6:3) where his blood was shed; and in baptism we put on Christ (Gal. 3:27). In view of such plain passages, how can anyone honestly feel that water baptism is unimportant and has no validity, and that we can be saved some other way?

JustAChristian