The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

JustAChristian

New member
A Prime Example of a Destroyed Person.

A Prime Example of a Destroyed Person.

Originally posted by HopeofGlory


[[/B]

If anyone takes time to read the last post of HopeofGlory, you will find a very irrational person who is obsessed with his own lack of knowledge. He has become so warped in his mind, I don't believe he will ever be reached with the truth of the gospel. Peter had something to say of such who had a hard time with Pauls writings, and destroyed themselves in their self will.

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

I sincerely hope that someday he can be rescued.

In Acts 2:38 we read: "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." We see the two commands "repent and be baptized" are connected by the coordeninating conjunction "and" distributing equal power and requirement of both. To repent is to have a change of heart and turn to God. To be baptized is to be immersed in water for the perpose of obeying Christ and receiving the cleansing of the shed blood of Christ. To be baptized is in the imperative mood. It is a command. For, which comes from the Greek word "eis" in the imperative mood is an accusative proposition which is interpreted "in order to". As this is the case here, being baptized is in order to have remission of sins. It can not mean "because of" or Peter would have used the team "dia" which is interpreted "because of" in the accusative. We hope this places a little light on this verse and helps to show the essentially of baptism for the remission of sins.

JustAChristian
 

JustAChristian

New member
Is Baptism a Work Of Man....or of God?


Some will say: “But baptism is a ‘‘work’’ and we are not saved by works……we are saved by faith.”

First, we must consider what the definition of a “work” is that we are using. If one defines baptism a “work” then we must also label believing a “work”. We must also label repenting a “work”. Believing and repenting are both things we must DO as a prerequisite to salvation. They are both things that require human action. Baptism is merely the last part of that equation. James tells us he will show us his faith by what he does.
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself. -James 2:17
It must be remembered that although baptism is something we must do (like believing and repenting), baptism is an act of faith, not a “work.” It must also be noted that the one at “work” when we are baptized is God, not us. See Colossians 2:12. Just as we must report to the hospital before a surgeon can operate on us, so too, we must ““report to God’’ in the waters of baptism, submitting to God and claiming His promise so that our sins will be forgiven. Just as it is the surgeon who is the one who is at work when we are operated on, so too, it is God who is the one who is at work when we undergo baptism.

Baptism is a once-in-a-lifetime event. It is our birth (John 3:3-5). Baptism is not an on going process such as feeding the poor, or clothing the homeless or offering sacrifices as they did under the Old Covenant. Doing good deeds cannot earn us eternal life.
Baptism is a manifestation of faith. It is not Man who is at work in baptism; it is God. Baptism is not a “work of righteousness.” On the contrary, if anything, it should be considered a work of UNrighteousness. We are baptized because we are corrupt, unrighteous and spiritually dead in sin. This is why we are buried with HIM into DEATH as explained in Romans 6. It is the DEAD that are buried, not the living.

But God has always measured faith by our actions, as James 2:17-26 tells us:

"Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself. But, someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith apart from works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and shudder. But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith apart from works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Do you see how faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness, and he was called Friend of God. You see, then, that out of works is man declared righteous, and not out of faith only; And in like manner was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works, in that she received the messengers, and sent them out another way? For as the body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

Even Martin Luther, who coined the phrase "salvation by faith only", understood that salvation by grace through faith did not preclude the necessity of baptism. In answer to the question, What does Baptism give? What good is it? Luther replied in his Small Catechism, “It gives the forgiveness of sins, redeems from death and the Devil, gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, just as God's words and promises declare.”

It must always be emphasized that baptism is an act in which God works, not Man. This happens through faith in God’’s Word——His Son. In baptism we, the dead, are joined with Christ into His death. Then, being united with Him together in this death and burial, just as Christ arose from the dead, so too, He brings us up, still unified as one, with Him to resurrected life.

Those that have been misled into thinking baptism is a “work” and one only need say a prayer to be saved, must realize that baptism is no more a “work” than is saying the “sinner’s prayer” or “praying Jesus into your heart.”

Martin Luther himself was often misunderstood and misrepresented by critics of baptism who oppose the very Word of God they claim to uphold. Yet he clarified in his writings exactly what he taught:

“For to be baptized in the name of God is to be baptized not by men, but by God Himself. Therefore although it is performed by human hands, it is nevertheless truly God's own work……”

“……But as our would-be wise, new spirits assert that faith alone saves, and that works and external things avail nothing, we answer: It is true, indeed, that nothing in us is of any avail but faith, as we shall hear still further. But these blind guides are unwilling to see this, namely, that faith must have something which it believes, that is, of which it takes hold, and upon which it stands and rests. Thus faith clings to the water, and believes that it is Baptism, in which there is pure salvation and life; not through the water (as we have sufficiently stated), but through the fact that it is embodied in the Word and institution of God, and the name of God inheres in it. Now, if I believe this, what else is it than believing in God as in Him who has given and planted His Word into this ordinance, and proposes to us this external thing wherein we may apprehend such a treasure?
Now, they are so mad as to separate faith and that to which faith clings and is bound though it be something external. Yea, it shall and must be something external, that it may be apprehended by the senses, and understood and thereby be brought into the heart, as indeed the entire Gospel is an external, verbal preaching. In short, what God does and works in us He proposes to work through such external ordinances. Wherever, therefore, He speaks, yea, in whichever direction or by whatever means He speaks, thither faith must look, and to that it must hold. Now here we have the words: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. To what else do they refer than to Baptism, that is, to the water comprehended in God's ordinance? Hence it follows that whoever rejects Baptism rejects the Word of God, faith, and Christ, who directs us thither and binds us to Baptism.

In the third place since we have learned the great benefit and power of Baptism, let us see further who is the person that receives what Baptism gives and profits. This is again most beautifully and clearly expressed in the words: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. That is, faith alone makes the person worthy to receive profitably the saving, divine water. For, since these blessings are here presented and promised in the words in and with the water, they cannot be received in any other way than by believing them with the heart. Without faith it profits nothing, notwithstanding it is in itself a divine superabundant treasure. Therefore this single word (He that believeth) effects this much that it excludes and repels all works which we can do, in the opinion that we obtain and merit salvation by them. For it is determined that whatever is not faith avails nothing nor receives anything. But if they say, as they are accustomed: Still Baptism is itself a work, and you say works are of no avail for salvation; what then, becomes of faith? Answer: Yes, our works, indeed, avail nothing for salvation; Baptism, however, is not our work, but God's (for, as was stated, you must put Christ-baptism far away from a bath-keeper's baptism). God's works, however, are saving and necessary for salvation, and do not exclude, but demand, faith; for without faith they could not be apprehended……”

“……Thus you see plainly that there is here no work done by us, but a treasure which He gives us, and which faith apprehends; just as the Lord Jesus Christ upon the cross is not a work, but a treasure comprehended in the Word, and offered to us and received by faith. Therefore they do us violence by exclaiming against us as though we preach against faith; while we alone insist upon it as being of such necessity that without it nothing can be received nor enjoyed.”

Submerging beneath the surface of water and getting wet is not a “work”. The “work” that is done in baptism is done by God, not by man. The “work” that is done in baptism is the removal of the stain of sin from a person’’s soul for all eternity. The ““work”” that is done in baptism is the transference of a sinner from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. The “work” that is done in baptism is God taking a dead man and making him alive! The “work” that is done in baptism is God taking the unrighteous and declaring them righteous. The “work” that is done in baptism is God clothing the sinner with the righteousness of Jesus. The “work” that is done in baptism is God uniting together man’’s spirit with Christ’’s. And this could NEVER, EVER be accomplished by man! The miracle that happens in baptism is not anything man does. It is something God Himself does through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Again, baptism is not our work, it is His! In speaking about marriage, Jesus said, “So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate." ––Matthew 19:6. The participants of the wedding ceremony are no more credited with joining the man and the woman together than are participants of baptism. God does not give such credit to mere servants for this union, but reserves that honor for Himself--and rightly so. Jesus sees marriage as something God does, not man. And so it is with baptism.

Just as the Lord tells us it is God Himself who is the one who does the joining in marriage, so too, baptism is viewed in the same way. It is God who joins us with Christ in baptism. This is a divine miracle and something infinitely beyond human capability. In a similar sense, as a man and a woman becoming united, we become united with Christ in the waters of baptism. And in all of this, it is God who does the joining. It is God who makes the two become one. That is how it is not only in marriage, but in baptism as well. Just as marriage is a spiritual union between a man and a woman that God gets the credit for, so too, baptism is a spiritual union (between Christ and man) that God gets the credit for because it is God who does the joining.


JustAChristian
 
Last edited:

revhleonard

New member
justachristian
Is Baptism a Work Of Man....or of God?

Some will say: “But baptism is a ‘‘work’’ and we are not saved by works……we are saved by faith.”

First, we must consider what the definition of a “work” is that we are using. If one defines baptism a “work” then we must also label believing a “work”. We must also label repenting a “work”. Believing and repenting are both things we must DO as a prerequisite to salvation. They are both things that require human action. Baptism is merely the last part of that equation. James tells us he will show us his faith by what he does.
Works are the things that we do that are the result of our faith. Works are our effort to obey and please God. Works do not produce faith, faith produces works. Therefore, anything that we do that is the result of our faith is a work. Baptism is the result of our desire to obey God, to attain his good pleasure. For all acts of obedience that are our effort to please God, we shall receive a reward. We are baptized in response to our faith; therefore, it is a work of obedience.

Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself. -James 2:17
Faith that is alive to God will always produce good works; therefore, if your faith does not produce good works, your faith is dead.

Just as we must report to the hospital before a surgeon can operate on us, so too, we must ““report to God’’ in the waters of baptism, submitting to God and claiming His promise so that our sins will be forgiven. Just as it is the surgeon who is the one who is at work when we are operated on, so too, it is God who is the one who is at work when we undergo baptism.

Baptism is a once-in-a-lifetime event. It is our birth (John 3:3-5). Baptism is not an on going process such as feeding the poor, or clothing the homeless or offering sacrifices as they did under the Old Covenant. Doing good deeds cannot earn us eternal life.
What you are saying in your first paragraph here is that if Jesus ran out of water, he is out of the saving business. Baptism is a once in a lifetime event, but it is only symbolic of our rebirth. Born again, rebirth=the indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit. Baptism is an act of obedience, not to be baptized is a sin because we disobey God, but it is in no way the unpardonable sin.

Faith is not a work because we do not get up one morning and say, think I will go to church and believe God. Faith is the result of God working on us; works are the result of our faith.

There is no salvific power in the water. We are saved by grace through faith alone, not of baptism, least the one baptized may boast. Now I know that bible only says some of that. Baptism is the result of believing God; baptism does not cause you to believe God.

Betcha Hitler was baptized, didn’t help him. How many people in prison or even in satanic cults have been baptized, if baptism could save, then everyone that has ever been under the water in Jesus name should be saved. If your heart is not right with God, (and many people have been baptized and their hearts were not right) you are lucky if baptism gets you wet.
:eek: Go ahead, smack me!!!!!!
 
Last edited:

Kevin

New member
revhleonard,

Baptism is the result of our desire to obey God, to attain his good pleasure.

I agree with you that baptism is the result of our desire to obey God, however, it's purpose goes beyond "obtaining His good pleasure, it's for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38, Romans 6:3-11).

Faith that is alive to God will always produce good works; therefore, if your faith does not produce good works, your faith is dead.

Agreed.

Baptism is an act of obedience, not to be baptized is a sin because we disobey God, but it is in no way the unpardonable sin.

Baptism is for the remission of sins. If our sins have not been remissed, we are still alive to our old man of sin, and dead to God. Romans 6:11 speaks about how baptism makes us dead to sin and alive to God in Jesus Christ. People who are alive to sin and dead to God will not make it to heaven. Baptism is what puts us into our relationship with God. Until we have done that, we have not died with Christ through baptism. It is those who have died with Christ that are freed from sin (Romans 6:7).

Rejecting Christ's commandments (baptism is just one of them) will certainly send one to hell in a handbasket if they don't repent and obey. Heb. 5:9 makes it quite clear that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Therefore, Jesus is NOT the author of eternal salvation to those who don't obey Him.

There is no salvific power in the water.

We never said it did. Never.

We are saved by grace through faith alone, not of baptism

Nice contradiction. Considering the fact that you said "therefore, if your faith does not produce good works, your faith is dead", is solid proof that you believe that "faith alone" is a dead faith. For you to imply that we are saved by grace through "faith alone" is to imply that we are saved by a dead faith. Wrong. We are saved by grace through faith that is alive with works of obedience.

For you to imply that baptism doesn't play a role in our salvation goes directly against 1 Peter 3:21. It plainly state that baptism now saves us through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Baptism now saves you. How much plainer could it be?

It would also go against Mark 16:16 where it plainly states two qualifications for salvation: Belief and baptism. Both have to be met before one can be saved. Both of those conditions come before salvation in that verse, not after.

Betcha Hitler was baptized, didn’t help him. How many people in prison or even in satanic cults have been baptized, if baptism could save, then everyone that has ever been under the water in Jesus name should be saved.

It sounds like your confused with our postition. We're not saved by baptism alone. If you don't have faith, you might as well go swimming. Baptism is useless without faith.

If those guys both believed in Christ and obeyed the gospel (which inlcludes baptism), then yes, they would be in the saving graces of God. Of course, the could easily lose that salvation if they turn their backs on Him. Nobody is done deal saved until they are accepted at the judgement seat of Christ.
 
Last edited:

revhleonard

New member
Kevin
Nice contradiction. Considering the fact that you said "therefore, if your faith does not produce good works, your faith is dead", is solid proof that you believe that "faith alone" is a dead faith. For you to imply that we are saved by grace through "faith alone" is to imply that we are saved by a dead faith. Wrong. We are saved by grace through faith that is alive with works of obedience.

Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (KJV)

When Christ accepts your faith as genuine non-hypocritical heart felt faith, he will save you, nothing that you can do can add to it. You are baptized as a visible way of identifying yourself with the Christian community. Did Christ tell the thief on the cross to run and be baptized and this day you will be with me in paradise? Deeds do not save, baptism does not save, feeding the hungry does not save, and visiting the sick does not save. We are saved by his grace through our faith.

If your faith does not produce good works, your faith has not met the criteria of saving faith. Baptism does not initiate salvation, nor does it complete it. It is a simple act of obedience meant to identify and bind the church together.

Through baptism, we are symbolically buried with him.
Not confused, been through this many times, IMHO, scripture does not support what you believe.
 

Kevin

New member
Freak,

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith not some water....

What kind of faith does Jesus like? A dead faith unto itself, or a faith alive with works of obedience?
 

Kevin

New member
revhleonard,

Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (KJV)

Yes, but it's not "faith alone", is it? Even you admit that faith only (faith by itself) is dead. It is faith that includes works of obedience that allows us to be in His saving grace. How do you reconcile this with your belief that we are saved by faith "alone"?

You are baptized as a visible way of identifying yourself with the Christian community.

So says common denominational teaching. Where is your biblical proof to support this claim? The purpose of baptism, according to the Bible, is to:
  • Die with Christ
  • Walk in the newness of life (being reborn)
  • Put off our old man of sin (our sins are forgiven)
  • Be dead to sin and alive to God

This is what baptism does for us according to Romans 6:3-11. Now show me a scripture that says the purpose of baptism is to identify yourself with the Christian community.

Did Christ tell the thief on the cross to run and be baptized and this day you will be with me in paradise?

Jesus had the power to forgive sins on earth (Matt. 9:6). The theif on the cross was saved because Jesus had the power to forgive sins on earth. Besides those people who were directly fogiven by Him, there was no forgivness of sin. Not to mention the fact that it would be impossible for the thief to be baptized into Jesus's death since Jesus hadn't died yet. Why would Jesus tell the thief to "run and be baptized" into a death that hasn't happened yet?! :rolleyes: That's just more evidence that you don't understand what baptism is all about.

Now that Jesus is no longer here on earth, He's not walking around telling people that their sins are forgiven. Therefore, after He died, He instituted the means by which all mankind can have their sins washed away - baptism. The result is that salvation is available to all people, not just the people who had the pleasure of meeting Jesus in person and having their sins forgiven. Jesus made it very clear in Mark 16:16 that we are to believe and be baptized to be saved, because baptism is how we are freed from sin. Peter also made it clear that baptism saves us in 1 Peter 3:21. He said that baptism now saves us. How hard is that to understand?

Deeds do not save, baptism does not save, feeding the hungry does not save, and visiting the sick does not save. We are saved by his grace through our faith.

Deeds/works do not save on their own, no. However, they do play a role in salvation. If you don't think so, then answer this very simple question that C.Moore avoided, and still avoids, like the plague: Did the people in Matt. 25:41-46 get cast into hell because of their lack of good WORKS towards man - Yes or No?

It is a simple act of obedience meant to identify and bind the church together.

And the biblical proofs to support this is where?
 
Last edited:

JustAChristian

New member
Baptism Now Saves!

Baptism Now Saves!

Originally posted by revhleonard


Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (KJV)

When Christ accepts your faith as genuine non-hypocritical heart felt faith, he will save you, nothing that you can do can add to it. You are baptized as a visible way of identifying yourself with the Christian community. Did Christ tell the thief on the cross to run and be baptized and this day you will be with me in paradise? Deeds do not save, baptism does not save, feeding the hungry does not save, and visiting the sick does not save. We are saved by his grace through our faith.

If your faith does not produce good works, your faith has not met the criteria of saving faith. Baptism does not initiate salvation, nor does it complete it. It is a simple act of obedience meant to identify and bind the church together.

Through baptism, we are symbolically buried with him.
Not confused, been through this many times, IMHO, scripture does not support what you believe.

Peter addressed it by inspiration saying, "...Baptism does also now save us..." As Noah and his family were saved in obedience to God in building an ark to the saving of his soul and those of his family, so also are we saved when we take the steps to cleanse our souls of the filth of sin. When one sees the adquacy of inspiration there is no need to do countless hours of search and script for a false supposition. Accept the doctrine and obey the voice of God. Be immersed in water for the remission and come in contact with the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ. He shed his blood for cleansing, and it is effectual today and until he comes again.

JustAChristian
 

revhleonard

New member
Kevin
Deeds/works do not save on their own, no. However, they do play a role in salvation. If you don't think so, then answer this very simple question that C.Moore avoided, and still avoids, like the plague: Did the people in Matt. 25:41-46 get cast into hell because of their lack of good WORKS towards man - Yes or No?

They were not cast into hell because of a lack of good works, they were cast into hell because they depended on their good works to save them. They tried to replace grace with works. The same thing that you are trying to do. You can make it without water baptism, it's the baptism of the Holy Spirit that you gotta get. That's the supernatural one.

Be baptised, it is a command that is to be obeyed. To not obey is sinful, but again i say, it is not the unpardonable sin.
 

revhleonard

New member
Kevin Yes, but it's not "faith alone", is it? Even you admit that faith only (faith by itself) is dead. It is faith that includes works of obedience that allows us to be in His saving grace. How do you reconcile this with your belief that we are saved by faith "alone"?

We are not saved by faith, although the bible does state so on two occasions, but you have to put those comments in context. We are saved by grace through faith. The vehicle that we must use to access God's grace is, we must believe God. (faith) Do you need to add baptism to grace, because you cannot add it to faith. First we believe, (faith) then we obey. (works)
 

Kevin

New member
revhleonard,

They were not cast into hell because of a lack of good works, they were cast into hell because they depended on their good works to save them.

We read the same passage, right? Matt: 25: 41-46? You say they were cast into hell because the depended on good works ?? :confused: Where do you get that? Where? look at verses 45-46:

45) Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredley, I say to you, inasmuch as you did NOT do it to one of the least of these, you did NOT do it to Me'.
46) And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.


They were sent to hell because they did not do good works unto man. It's only logical reasoning to figure people who supposedly "depend" on good works to save them would actually do them. But they didn't, did they? They were sent to hell because they didn't do them. Just where do you get the idea from this passage that they depended on works to save them? :confused: It goes purely against the very clear message of this passage!

Be baptised, it is a command that is to be obeyed. To not obey is sinful, but again i say, it is not the unpardonable sin.

And again, I say: Baptism is for the remission of sins. If our sins have not been remissed, we are still alive to our old man of sin, and dead to God. Romans 6:11 speaks about how baptism makes us dead to sin and alive to God in Jesus Christ. People who are alive to sin and dead to God will not make it to heaven. Baptism is what puts us into our relationship with God. Until we have done that, we have not died with Christ through baptism. It is those who have died with Christ that are freed from sin (Romans 6:7).

Rejecting Christ's commandments (baptism is just one of them) will certainly send one to hell in a handbasket if they don't repent and obey. Heb. 5:9 makes it quite clear that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Therefore, Jesus is NOT the author of eternal salvation to those who don't obey Him.
 

Kevin

New member
revhleonard,

We are saved by grace through faith.

Agreed, but as I've continually asked, is it faith only (which you've admitted is dead), or is it faith that inlcudes works?

The vehicle that we must use to access God's grace is, we must believe God. (faith) Do you need to add baptism to grace, because you cannot add it to faith. First we believe, (faith) then we obey. (works)

It takes more than beleif. How can you be in God's grace without putting away the old man of sin and being alive to God in Christ? How?

As far as adding baptism, I have done no such thing. Jesus is the one who included baptism as one of the two requirements of salvation in Mark 16:16. It's plain as day.

Was Peter confused when say very clearly said that baptism now saves you in 1 Peter 3:21? :rolleyes: Did Peter add to what Christ taught? NO.

Also, I'm still waiting for you to show me in the scriptures where it teaches that baptism's purpose is merely meant to identify oneself with the Christian community.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Kevin,

You base your belief that water baptism is for salvation during the present dispensation on Mark16:16.

What about the following verse which says,"And these signs shall follow those who believe:In My name shall they cast out demons;they shall speak with new tongues;they shall take up serpents;and if they drink any deadly things,it shall not hurt them;they shall lay hands on the sick,and they shall recover"(Mk.16:17,18).

These verses make it plain that all that BELIEVE will be able to heal the sick and cast out demons as well as drinking poison without hurting them.Can you do these things?

In His grace,--Jerry
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Kevin,

I have repeatedly heard those who believe that "water" baptism saves using 1Peter3:20-21 to bolster their case.But to this point no one has been able to tell me HOW the eight souls were saved by a "water baptism".

Would you please be kind enough to explain how "water baptism" saved these souls,especially considering the fact that none of the eight souls were ever touched with water.

In His grace,--Jerry
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Melody,

It is the "water" that bore up the ark and saved them from destruction.It never says that it is a "water baptism" that saved them.The verses say that they were saved by "water",and this "water" is a like figure of the baptism that now saves us.

"...eight souls were saved by water;the LIKE FIGURE unto which even baptism doth also now save us..."(1Pet.3:20,21).

The eight souls were saved by that which represented death to the world.The flood waters destroyed those living upon the earth,but the same water bore up the ark and saved those inside from death.That is the same way we are saved by our "Spiritual" baptism.

Our Spiritual baptism identifies us with the death of Christ.In that way are we saved from eternal death:

"For by one Spirit are we all BAPTIZED into one body...the body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13,27).

And as many of us who are baptized BY THE SPIRIT into Christ are also baptized into His death by the same Spirit:

"Know ye not that,as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death?"

There is no Scriptual support that we are "water" baptized into Christ.In fact,the water baptism is called a "baptism of repentance".Never is it said that submitting to a rite of water baptism places anyone in Christ.

However,Scripture is explicit that the believer is baptized into the body of Christ by the Spirit.We also know that we are "buried with Him in baptism,in which also ye are risen with Him" by the same "operation of God".

We are given life,or risen with Him by the Holy Spirit just as we are baptized into His death by the Holy Spirit:

"It is the Spirit that giveth life;the flesh profiteth nothing.The words that I speak unto you,they are Spirit,and they are life"(Jn.6:63).

So just as the eight souls were saved by that which represented death,the sinner is saved from eternal death by death.And the sinner is baptized into His death and life by the Holy Spirit.

In His grace,--Jerry
 

Melody

New member
I agree that one needs to be baptized in the spirit but one also needs to be baptized in the flesh.

Baptism in Jesus" name is water baptism and is for the remission of sins.

Baptism of the Holy Ghost is for power to walk in newness of life.

It is all part of one baptism.

When one is born in the natural one leaves the watery world of the womb and receiving nutrition and oxygen from the mother and enters a new world where one must breathe in oxegen and eat food on one's own to continue to live.

Spiritually we must leave the old world behind and our sins are washed away through water baptism and we are received into a new family with the assumption of the name of Jesus.
But we will die to this spiritual world if we do not accept the spiritual power of the Holy Ghost. For it is through the gift of the Holy Ghost that we receive power and are sealed unto Him.

Just as one cannot seperate the successful completion of all the parts of the natural birth and have a successful new child one cannot seperate all the elements of the new birh process and have a successful birth of a new child of God.
 

revhleonard

New member
Kevin
45) Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did NOT do it to one of the least of these, you did NOT do it to Me'.
46) And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

They were sent to hell because they did not do good works unto man. It's only logical reasoning to figure people who supposedly "depend" on good works to save them would actually do them. But they didn't, did they? They were sent to hell because they didn't do them. Just where do you get the idea from this passage that they depended on works to save them? It goes purely against the very clear message of this passage!

Christ is demonstrating a lack of genuine faith. Faith and works go together, for our faith we are saved, for our good works, we will receive a reward. Those alluded to in the following passage had many wonderful works. Nevertheless, they were told to depart.
Matt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(KJV)


Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) (KJV)

Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Here we have a scriptural denial of exactly what you contend is true. “Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Talk about clear scripture.
 
Top