JustAChristian
New member
I'll second that!!!
I'll second that!!!
Isn't rene doing a wonderful job? :up:
JustAChristian :angel:
I'll second that!!!
Isn't rene doing a wonderful job? :up:
JustAChristian :angel:
The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
- Start date
HopeofGlory
New member
Water baptism caused much confusion in the Corinthian church and that confusion continues today. A simple solution to the problem is to rid ourselves of the ritual.
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1 Cor. 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1 Cor. 1:17
JustAChristian
New member
JustAChristian
New member
Why Did Paul Baptize?
Why Did Paul Baptize?
Now, if your interpretation is correct and Christ sent Paul not to baptize, but to preach the gospel (only, for this is what you are trying to teach), tell us: Why did Paul go against the instructions of the Lord and baptize?
JustAChristian
Why Did Paul Baptize?
Now, if your interpretation is correct and Christ sent Paul not to baptize, but to preach the gospel (only, for this is what you are trying to teach), tell us: Why did Paul go against the instructions of the Lord and baptize?
JustAChristian
rene
New member
Hopeofglory suggests not following the very words of Jesus with this comment: Water baptism caused much confusion in the Corinthian church and that confusion continues today. A simple solution to the problem is to rid ourselves of the ritual.
My reply: Do away with what the teachings of the one that is to be followed.
You call this "Christian"?
My reply: Do away with what the teachings of the one that is to be followed.
You call this "Christian"?
rene
New member
Re: Why Did Paul Baptize?
Re: Why Did Paul Baptize?
An obvious reply, I agree. Such makes their comments fail miserably in even being considered as a possiblity.
Re: Why Did Paul Baptize?
An obvious reply, I agree. Such makes their comments fail miserably in even being considered as a possiblity.
Originally posted by JustAChristian
Now, if your interpretation is correct and Christ sent Paul not to baptize, but to preach the gospel (only, for this is what you are trying to teach), tell us: Why did Paul go against the instructions of the Lord and baptize?
JustAChristian
JustAChristian
New member
Will You Show Us That In The Greek?
Will You Show Us That In The Greek?
Unfortunately, you have come up with a personal interpretaion of this verse. Would you be willing to show us this in the Greek Manuscripts. Tell us which manuscript expresses it in this fashion. Looking forward for your reply.
JustAChristian :angel:
Will You Show Us That In The Greek?
Unfortunately, you have come up with a personal interpretaion of this verse. Would you be willing to show us this in the Greek Manuscripts. Tell us which manuscript expresses it in this fashion. Looking forward for your reply.
JustAChristian :angel:
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rene
New member
What I found strange is that for all those that seem to want to suggest that such is not even a possibility - none addressed the scriptures where baptism is clearly stated.
I thought that the intent was to discuss the bible using this as the topic. When one side is totally ignoring those very scriptures mentioned above - what is one to think? I will say that you have not been all that negative and have actually discussed more than some others. I do appreciate it.
For any to putting on blinders and not looking at the total of scripture isn't discussion. I too have been in sticky situations where what I claimed to have thought to be true - came up wanting when closely inspected and compared to scripture. Just part of growing and becoming mature in the Lord.
--
Rene
Certainly, no revolution that has ever taken place in society can be compared to that which has been produced by the words of Jesus Christ.
- Mark Hopkins
I thought that the intent was to discuss the bible using this as the topic. When one side is totally ignoring those very scriptures mentioned above - what is one to think? I will say that you have not been all that negative and have actually discussed more than some others. I do appreciate it.
For any to putting on blinders and not looking at the total of scripture isn't discussion. I too have been in sticky situations where what I claimed to have thought to be true - came up wanting when closely inspected and compared to scripture. Just part of growing and becoming mature in the Lord.
--
Rene
Certainly, no revolution that has ever taken place in society can be compared to that which has been produced by the words of Jesus Christ.
- Mark Hopkins
Shaun
New member
rene:
I have yet to see anyone refute the argument presented here:
http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=237533#post237533
I have yet to see anyone refute the argument presented here:
http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=237533#post237533
rene
New member
Shaun, I have yet to see any refute that every person that became a believer was baptized. Every person that is called saved within the NT was always baptized.
Coincidence? Jesus spoke the words to His followers to instruct them into what they needed to do to est. His church. None has addressed Acts 2:38 that reflect Jesus' words and the clearly stated message that more than calls into question that it is solely as stated by some here.
To "believe in Him whom He sent" indicates following the words as well as the actions of them as well. To be 'in' indicates a much deeper relationship, total involvement.
I also have not seen any scripture that states that baptism is limited to "obedience"
Coincidence? Jesus spoke the words to His followers to instruct them into what they needed to do to est. His church. None has addressed Acts 2:38 that reflect Jesus' words and the clearly stated message that more than calls into question that it is solely as stated by some here.
To "believe in Him whom He sent" indicates following the words as well as the actions of them as well. To be 'in' indicates a much deeper relationship, total involvement.
I also have not seen any scripture that states that baptism is limited to "obedience"
HopeofGlory
New member
I just want to say that I side with JustAChristian, rene and Kevin that water baptism was required for remission of sins during John's ministry and at Pentecost.
Shaun
New member
rene:
Just to clarify:
If a person accepts Jesus Christ as having died and risen in 3 days,
has had the baptism with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:4-6, Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Mark 10:39) by accepting this message (Ephesians 1:13-14, John 6:28, Acts 16:29-31, Romans 10:9, John 3:15) in their mouth and their heart, rejoices in the glory of God with their heart (Romans 5:1-2), is no longer under the Law (Galatians 3:23-25, Acts 13:38-39), preaches the Gospel to all who will hear without concern for his own life (Acts 20:24), but has not been baptised with water--are they saved?
Just to clarify:
If a person accepts Jesus Christ as having died and risen in 3 days,
has had the baptism with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:4-6, Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Mark 10:39) by accepting this message (Ephesians 1:13-14, John 6:28, Acts 16:29-31, Romans 10:9, John 3:15) in their mouth and their heart, rejoices in the glory of God with their heart (Romans 5:1-2), is no longer under the Law (Galatians 3:23-25, Acts 13:38-39), preaches the Gospel to all who will hear without concern for his own life (Acts 20:24), but has not been baptised with water--are they saved?
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JustAChristian
New member
????
????
Good to see your change of heart and understanding. Why don't you extend that understanding to "the uttermost parts of the eatth"? (Matthew 28:20)
JustAChristian
????
Good to see your change of heart and understanding. Why don't you extend that understanding to "the uttermost parts of the eatth"? (Matthew 28:20)
JustAChristian
rene
New member
Shaun ends his comments with this: are they saved?
My reply: Only God knows who are His. I could make a guess. I might even be right. I also could be wrong. Better to leave it where it really belongs, with God.
This is what Jesus says about it tho:
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Mat 7:29 For he taught them as [one] having authority, and not as the scribes.
So one could very well appear to have done all the things that you have suggested - and still not be saved - that is if one believes the bible. Jesus' words here cover all the points that you suggest.
My reply: Only God knows who are His. I could make a guess. I might even be right. I also could be wrong. Better to leave it where it really belongs, with God.
This is what Jesus says about it tho:
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Mat 7:29 For he taught them as [one] having authority, and not as the scribes.
So one could very well appear to have done all the things that you have suggested - and still not be saved - that is if one believes the bible. Jesus' words here cover all the points that you suggest.