ECT The Grace of God. Is it merited or unmerited?

nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
Read my posts. You will see I mentioned the forknowledge of God as in: "In whom God foreknew He predestinated . . ". . . grace.
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But Paul says that not only did he NOT merit the grace, but he said it came first and then did the work. Thus his own statement disavows it having anything to do with him. So if God foreknew Paul, He foreknew Him according to His own purpose - not according to Paul's own merit.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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nikolai_42 said:
But Paul says that not only did he NOT merit the grace, but he said it came first and then did the work. Thus his own statement disavows it having anything to do with him. So if God foreknew Paul, He foreknew Him according to His own purpose - not according to Paul's own merit.
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God's foreknowledge, Nik, God's foreknowledge of all things Paul, before he was born. That must be taken into consideration otherwise all foreknowledge of God becomes debatable.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Obedience does not produce grace.

Grace produces obedience.


Profession of faith without obedience is a dead faith.

Such is the error called "Antinomianism."
 
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Cross Reference

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Nang, I have nothing to say to you. Maybe read my Thread re High Calvinism critique. Do a review to see what stupid reasoning you bought into. You demonstrate as one with no way out of such reasoning. That is unfortunate.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
God's foreknowledge, Nik, God's foreknowledge of all things Paul, before he was born. That must be taken into consideration otherwise all foreknowledge of God becomes debatable.
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Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Acts 15:18

Whose work did Paul say his apostleship was? God's or his? Remember, foreknowledge is not just passive knowledge - it is intimate acquaintance with someone. If God "knew" us before we were born, it is because He created us for a specific purpose. His foreknowledge can't be passive unless the world was created like a computer and the free will of man like a random number over which God has no control. And knowing the definition of "random" I know it necessarily implies not knowing ahead of time (much less having control over).
 
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Cross Reference

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nikolai_42 said:
Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Acts 15:18

Whose work did Paul say his apostleship was? God's or his? Remember, foreknowledge is not just passive knowledge - it is intimate acquaintance with someone. If God "knew" us before we were born, it is because He created us for a specific purpose. His foreknowledge can't be passive unless the world was created like a computer and the free will of man like a random number over which God has no control. And knowing the definition of "random" I know it necessarily implies not knowing ahead of time (much less having control over).
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If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
Yes. Paul was a righteous man. Start there.
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No. The foundation was God's grace. I realize saying God foreknew and predestined from the beginning all things is not true - but it appears that way when we look at things. So God wasn't destroying His own foundation but reckoning with Paul as he was - making him a new creation in Christ. Paul was MADE righteous. He was not (and admitted as much) already righteous.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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nikolai_42 said:
No. The foundation was God's grace. I realize saying God foreknew and predestined from the beginning all things is not true - but it appears that way when we look at things. So God wasn't destroying His own foundation but reckoning with Paul as he was - making him a new creation in Christ. Paul was MADE righteous. He was not (and admitted as much) already righteous.
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Saul-Paul was blameless. Ergo, not unrighteous. God never chooses unrighteousness to conversion for his righteous purposes. His foreknowlege enters into His ability to preselect His own..

It can be rightly stated that ALL of creation was ordained to worship Him.

If a new creation then the foundation is redemption. You conjecture God not foreknowing all. He foreknows everything and everyone irrespective of their eternal destination.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
Saints? Everybody here says they're still sinners, saved by grace. I guess for them, there hasn't been any progress.
<I can believe that>
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I don't think the question is one of progress - Sanctification is a process. Otherwise it must be instantaneous...

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 1:6

If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
For now thou numberest my steps: dost thou not watch over my sin?
My transgression is sealed up in a bag, and thou sewest up mine iniquity.
Job 14:14-17

But progress and the basis of that progress are not independent of one another. Thus, the importance of the foundation. My righteousness or God's? And while I am changed (transformed, as Paul puts it in Romans 12:2), that doesn't mean I've arrived...
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
Saul-Paul was blameless. Ergo, not unrighteous. God never chooses unrighteousness to conversion for his righteous purposes. His foreknowlege enters into His ability to preselect His own..

It can be rightly stated that ALL of creation was ordained to worship Him.

If a new creation then the foundation is redemption. You conjecture God not foreknowing all. He foreknows everything and everyone irrespective of their eternal destination.
Click to expand...

Blameless...yet persecuted the church of God.
 
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