The Gospel Verses Predestination

[Robert Pate]

You are working hard to pretzel out of your dilemma by demanding that God state exactly what you demand. Meanwhile God says this:
Ephesians 1:4-5
[4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
[5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
I'm not sure how you get around what God clearly says, so I look forward to your butchered pretzel attempt.

There is nothing wrong with Ephesians 1:4,5.

God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ. Not individuals as you seem to believe. The scripture says "God has chosen us IN HIM" Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity. Jesus came into the world to perfect our humanity. How else are you going to be, "Holy and without blame before him in love?" God sees ALL THINGS in Jesus Christ. He is no respecter of persons.

 

[MennoSota]

There is nothing wrong with Ephesians 1:4,5.

God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ. Not individuals as you seem to believe. The scripture says "God has chosen us IN HIM" Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity. Jesus came into the world to perfect our humanity. How else are you going to be, "Holy and without blame before him in love?" God sees ALL THINGS in Jesus Christ. He is no respecter of persons.

The text shows it is only Christians being addressed. The "us" is only the elect.
Ephesians 1
[1]This letter is from Paul, chosen by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus.I am writing to God’s holy people in Ephesus, who are faithful followers of Christ Jesus.

"Chosen before the foundation of the world". The "us" are Christians.
Ephesians 1:4-5
[4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
[5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
Those whom God predestined are adopted. Not the entire world.
Ephesians 1:11-14
[11]Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.
[12]God’s purpose was that we Jews who were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God.
[13]And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.
[14]The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.
RP, I knew you would attempt to pretzel, but the context around Ephesians 1 shows that your universalism is utterly wrong. Thankfully those whom God has chosen will understand. Those who are destined to damnation will believe as you do.

 

[cgaviria]

Predestination is a false Gospel or another Gospel, Galatians 1:6-10.

The true Gospel is about how Jesus Christ justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and how by his mighty works he has reconciled a world of lost sinners unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. If we have ALREADY been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, then why would anyone need to be predestinated?

Adam by his own free will chose to sin against God. God actually created a man that could rebel against him, if he chose to do so. All of the angels in heaven were also created with a free will. Satan was kicked out of heaven because by his own free will he chose to rebel against God.

I don't know why some want to believe that Adam lost his free will in the fall. Adam did not lose his free will, what he lost was his relationship with God, not his free will. Adam and Eve had two sons, Cain and Abel. God requested that they should bring him an offering. Cain by his own free will brought God some vegetables out of his garden, Genesis 4:3. While Abel brought a firstlings of his flock, Geneses 4:4. Which pointed to Christ. God was pleased with Abel's offering, but not Cain's, Genesis 4:5. Here we have the two sons of Adam and Eve by their own free will trying to please God with their offerings.

If Adam lost his free will would not his own flesh and blood also loose their free will also? In the following scriptures we learn that Cain by his own free will murders his brother Abel, Genesis 4:8. Now did God make Cain murder his brother? I hardly think so, but many believe that is what happened.

God never did and never will create a robot. Why? simply because robots don't honor or glorify him. God created a man that has the ability to sin against him, or to love and obey him. Either way God is glorified in the crown of his creation. Everyone will be judged by him to see if they have done good or evil, 2 Corinthians 5:10. We are all individual responsible for our actions. You are not going to be able to blame God for your rejection of his Son Jesus Christ in the judgment.

The Gospel brings honor and glory to God and his Son Jesus Christ, while the doctrine of predestination makes him a villain and makes his Son Jesus Christ a failure. Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has reconciled us and the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Free will is an illusion, do you suppose the men at the Tower of Babel had the "free will" to have the languages they knew inside their heads altered by God? This was so because God exerts full control over the mind, where even the heart of Pharaoh was hardened by the will of God, so that through the hardening God caused, God may demonstrate his power and judgments. Whoever denies that God exerts full control over the minds of men to either draw them to him or to harden their hearts has no understanding of God, no knowledge of the truth, and is himself being hardened by God to not understand.

 

[Robert Pate]

The text shows it is only Christians being addressed. The "us" is only the elect.
Ephesians 1
[1]This letter is from Paul, chosen by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus.I am writing to God’s holy people in Ephesus, who are faithful followers of Christ Jesus.

"Chosen before the foundation of the world". The "us" are Christians.
Ephesians 1:4-5
[4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
[5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
Those whom God predestined are adopted. Not the entire world.
Ephesians 1:11-14
[11]Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.
[12]God’s purpose was that we Jews who were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God.
[13]And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.
[14]The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.
RP, I knew you would attempt to pretzel, but the context around Ephesians 1 shows that your universalism is utterly wrong. Thankfully those whom God has chosen will understand. Those who are destined to damnation will believe as you do.

God does nothing outside of Jesus Christ.

Jesus has reconciled the whole world unto God.

"God was in Christ RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation"

The word of reconciliation is the Gospel. God now sees ALL THINGS "In Christ" As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed, Jesus now victoriously sits in heaven at the right hand of God as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

For now God is at peace with the world because he sees the whole world in Christ, Colossians 1:20. ALL THINGS have been reconciled unto God.

 

[cgaviria]

God does nothing outside of Jesus Christ.

Jesus has reconciled the whole world unto God.

"God was in Christ RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation"

The word of reconciliation is the Gospel. God now sees ALL THINGS "In Christ" As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed, Jesus now victoriously sits in heaven at the right hand of God as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

For now God is at peace with the world because he sees the whole world in Christ, Colossians 1:20. ALL THINGS have been reconciled unto God.

I perceive you lack understanding in the appointed times of God. Death has not been destroyed yet, but it will be once the rulership of Christ comes to end, for it will indeed come to an end, and then the Father will be all in all.

 

[Robert Pate]

Free will is an illusion, do you suppose the men at the Tower of Babel had the "free will" to have the languages they knew inside their heads altered by God? This was so because God exerts full control over the mind, where even the heart of Pharaoh was hardened by the will of God, so that through the hardening God caused, God may demonstrate his power and judgments. Whoever denies that God exerts full control over the minds of men to either draw them to him or to harden their hearts has no understanding of God, no knowledge of the truth, and is himself being hardened by God to not understand.

It is not possible to love or trust in the God of Calvinism. The God of Calvinism is a mean, cruel tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

He is not the God that, "So loves the world that he gave his only begotten Son" John 3:16.

 

[Robert Pate]

I perceive you lack understanding in the appointed times of God. Death has not been destroyed yet, but it will be once the rulership of Christ comes to end, for it will indeed come to an end, and then the Father will be all in all.

In God's eyes sin, death and the devil have been destroyed and Jesus is Lord. So that now, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

 

[cgaviria]

In God's eyes sin, death and the devil have been destroyed and Jesus is Lord. So that now, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Death has not been destroyed yet, but will be, in the future. The destruction of the enemies of God through Christ is progressive, not instant. To assert that it is instant, such as saying death is destroyed right now, is to blindfold yourself to the blatant truth that death still exists. Let's not be idiots and understand the word of God.

 

[MennoSota]

God does nothing outside of Jesus Christ.

Jesus has reconciled the whole world unto God.

"God was in Christ RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation"

The word of reconciliation is the Gospel. God now sees ALL THINGS "In Christ" As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed, Jesus now victoriously sits in heaven at the right hand of God as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

For now God is at peace with the world because he sees the whole world in Christ, Colossians 1:20. ALL THINGS have been reconciled unto God.

If Jesus has reconciled the whole world, then there is absolutely no reason for us to be ambassadors of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:17-18
[17]This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!
[18]And all of this is a gift from God, who brought us back to himself through Christ. And God has given us this task of reconciling people to him.
Notice that it does not say "everyone" belongs to Christ. Notice that those who belong to Christ receive it as a gift. (Hint: They did not choose it.) God did it for those who will believe (Hint: The elect.).
Since the whole world is not reconciled (there would be no need for ambassadors of reconciliation if God had), this means that your presupposition is incorrect (as usual).
Since the Bible is written to the elect, we know that God is indeed reconciling all whom He has chosen. He is fully accomplishing His will.
In your presupposition, we see an extremely weak God who apparently reconciled the entire world and then failed miserably to bring them all to faith. The vast majority die and spend eternity unreconciled with God because God was just incredibly weak and incapable of fulfilling his promises. Any person who considers your god will see that he is weak and empty of substance.
However, the God of the Bible never fails to reconcile even one of His chosen persons for whom he gives the gift of faith. He is all powerful and no human will can stand against Him. Even the gates of Hell fall against His onslaught in pursuit of His elect children. God accomplishes all that He wills and His authority is all encompassing. All creation bows to His will as the Sovereign King.
Now, be gone small one who peddles a god who you have made up from the figment of your imagination. Your wimpy, man controlled, god is worthless to do what you claim he does. Your god is a massive failure.
I thank the Creator and Sovereign God that He is not the God of your imagination. My God rules Supreme over all creation. You, Robert Pate, dangle by a thread over the pit of hell. God is just if He cuts your thread and you fall into the pit. But, may God be merciful and gracious despite your wretchedness. May God give you life and cause you to repent.

 

[MennoSota]

It is not possible to love or trust in the God of Calvinism. The God of Calvinism is a mean, cruel tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

He is not the God that, "So loves the world that he gave his only begotten Son" John 3:16.

You imagine that Calvin had the first concept of God's Sovereign authority over all creation.
Every author in scripture oozes with God's Sovereign choice to act as He wills with, in and through His creation. Calvin was just one of many, many saints, including the Apostles, who recognize God's Supremacy.
I am sorry you have such a small god who has no resemblance to the God of the Bible.

 

[beloved57]

In God's eyes sin, death and the devil have been destroyed and Jesus is Lord. So that now, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

You teach that Christ death has no saving benefit to those He died for.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[Stripe]

You teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost also.

Who are you? :idunno:

 

[JudgeRightly]

Who are you? :idunno:

One of those hyper-Calvinists.

 

[Robert Pate]

The text shows it is only Christians being addressed. The "us" is only the elect.
Ephesians 1
[1]This letter is from Paul, chosen by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus.I am writing to God’s holy people in Ephesus, who are faithful followers of Christ Jesus.

"Chosen before the foundation of the world". The "us" are Christians.
Ephesians 1:4-5
[4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
[5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
Those whom God predestined are adopted. Not the entire world.
Ephesians 1:11-14
[11]Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.
[12]God’s purpose was that we Jews who were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God.
[13]And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.
[14]The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.
RP, I knew you would attempt to pretzel, but the context around Ephesians 1 shows that your universalism is utterly wrong. Thankfully those whom God has chosen will understand. Those who are destined to damnation will believe as you do.

The "US" is all of humanity.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19. All of humanity has been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ.

This is a tough one for you to believe because it refutes Calvinism. If God has reconciled everyone to himself by Jesus Christ then no one needs to be predestinated.

"All Things are of God, who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:18.

Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. By his righteous sinless life he has fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18. By his death on the cross he atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

All who believe this Gospel and are trusting in Jesus Christ to save them are given the Holy Spirit.

"This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Holy Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

"So the faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Instead of trusting and relying on Christ to save you, you are trusting and relying that you have been predestinated. Salvation has been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9. God is just and merciful to everyone, not just some, but everyone.

 

[Robert Pate]

Free will is an illusion, do you suppose the men at the Tower of Babel had the "free will" to have the languages they knew inside their heads altered by God? This was so because God exerts full control over the mind, where even the heart of Pharaoh was hardened by the will of God, so that through the hardening God caused, God may demonstrate his power and judgments. Whoever denies that God exerts full control over the minds of men to either draw them to him or to harden their hearts has no understanding of God, no knowledge of the truth, and is himself being hardened by God to not understand.

What you believe about God robs him of all of his glory and makes the work of Christ as of no effect.

God does not create robots as you seem to believe. He creates men with the will to either love him or reject him. Adam did not lose his free will in the fall, what he lost was his relationship with God.

You make God responsible for the sins of the world. You and you alone are responsible for your sins. Chances are that you will have to find that out in the judgment.

 

[cgaviria]

What you believe about God robs him of all of his glory and makes the work of Christ as of no effect.

God does not create robots as you seem to believe. He creates men with the will to either love him or reject him. Adam did not lose his free will in the fall, what he lost was his relationship with God.

You make God responsible for the sins of the world. You and you alone are responsible for your sins. Chances are that you will have to find that out in the judgment.

Men are not robots, men are living as God is living. And in that life God has granted men, he is the one that chooses what men will want and choose, for whatever purpose he has, hence,

for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. (Philippians 2:13 [NIV])

You lack understanding about the power of God and the reliance creation has in God, for without God not only can you not exist, but you also cannot live nor even move,

For in him we live and move and exist. As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
(Acts 17:28 [NLT])

Because he is the one that causes everything to be and to move, which is why the outcome of a dice is determined by God,

We may throw the dice, but the LORD determines how they fall. (Proverbs 16:33 [NLT])

And even the decisions of man are determined by God.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The "US" is all of humanity.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19. All of humanity has been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ.

This is a tough one for you to believe because it refutes Calvinism. If God has reconciled everyone to himself by Jesus Christ then no one needs to be predestinated.

"All Things are of God, who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:18.

Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. By his righteous sinless life he has fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18. By his death on the cross he atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

Robert,

You continue to press onward as if no one has ever answered your claims concerning what your favorite "go to" verses actually teach us.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...Jesus-Christ&p=4932877&viewfull=1#post4932877

:AMR:

How about stepping out of that echo chamber of yours and actually paying attention to what has come after your assertions are made?

AMR

 

[MennoSota]

The "US" is all of humanity.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19. All of humanity has been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ.

This is a tough one for you to believe because it refutes Calvinism. If God has reconciled everyone to himself by Jesus Christ then no one needs to be predestinated.

"All Things are of God, who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:18.

Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. By his righteous sinless life he has fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18. By his death on the cross he atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

All who believe this Gospel and are trusting in Jesus Christ to save them are given the Holy Spirit.

"This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Holy Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

"So the faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Instead of trusting and relying on Christ to save you, you are trusting and relying that you have been predestinated. Salvation has been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9. God is just and merciful to everyone, not just some, but everyone.

Nope. Your god, made in your own image like Jeraboam did, is weak and unable to reconcile all humanity. Your god is a collasal failure.
The God of Creation reconciles all His chosen people to Himself. Not one is left unreconciled.
Your heresy is great, Robert.

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert,

You continue to press onward as if no one has ever answered your claims concerning what your favorite "go to" verses actually teach us.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...Jesus-Christ&p=4932877&viewfull=1#post4932877

:AMR:

How about stepping out of that echo chamber of yours and actually paying attention to what has come after your assertions are made?

AMR

You have no answer for what I post. You can't figure out what to do about the fact that God has ALREADY reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:19. If this scripture is true, which it is, then your doctrine of predestination goes down the toilet.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Robert,
How about stepping out of that echo chamber of yours and actually paying attention to what has come after your assertions are made?

You have no answer for what I post.

Q.E.D.

I can't make this stuff up. It writes itself. :rotfl:

AMR