ECT The Gospel of Grace--Not Made Known Until Paul

Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Here we see Paul speak about the "good news" of grace:

"But now the righteousness of God without law is made known, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​

Paul says "but now" the righteousness of God without law is made known. He also says that the "law and the prophets" (the OT) testify to this fact. Then in the next chapter he talks about OT saints who have been saved by grace, using both Abraham and David as his examples:

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:1-8).​

Paul then sums up his argument by saying that all men who are saved are saved by grace and their salvation is received by faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Paul says "but now" the righteousness of God without law is made known. He also says that the "law and the prophets" (the OT) testify to this fact.
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That's the point Paul is making. We are justified without the law, the law of Moses. That's what they have been trusting in for over a thousand years and are still trusting in, being a Jew and having the law.

Rom. 2:17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God 18 and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; 19 and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth—

Since they are trusting in being a Jew and having the law Paul makes a few points to show it doesn't do them any good.

First, he tells them they dishonor God by their breaking of the law.
Rom. 2:21 you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. 24 For, as it is written, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."


Then he really shows them how being a law breaker makes them just like the Gentiles who do not have the law and are uncircumcised.
2:25 For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. 26 So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. 28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Then he tells them plainly they are no better than the Gentiles.
Rom. 3:9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,

Then he show how the law convicts them of sin.
3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

That was the purpose of the law, to show man he had sin and needed a savior. Paul tells how the law was "added" because of transgressions until Christ.
Gal. 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.

The law was never intended to make man righteous. He tells them there's a new way, not through the law but through faith.
3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

The people he's trying to reach can't imagine being righteous without the law and circumcision. He shows them the two options, law of works or law of faith.
3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Then he makes the point that justification by faith isn't only for them but the Gentiles also.
3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

Paul then goes on to prove that they can by justified without the law and circumcision by showing them Abraham was declared righteous without the law and without being circumcised. First he shows without works of the law.
4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
Paul says those who rely on works of the law are under a curse.
Gal. 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."

Then he shows without circumcision.
4:9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.


That's Paul's point. Righteousness can't come through the law or it would nullify the promise as he tells us in Galatians.
Gal. 3:15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

You say that Paul was the first to make this know but I strongly disagree. How was grace made possible? By Jesus' blood.
Rom. 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.

How is grace received? By faith. NOT by the law of Moses but by faith. That is what Paul is trying to tell them, it's by faith not the law.


Is this the law of Moses or the new and living way?
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
You say that Paul was the first to make this know but I strongly disagree. How was grace made possible? By Jesus' blood.
Rom. 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.
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Why do you quote Paul in your effort to try to prove that Paul was not the first to preach the gospel of grace?

That makes no sense!
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Why do you quote Paul in your effort to try to prove that Paul was not the first to preach the gospel of grace?

That makes no sense!
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Did you really read and think about the point I was making?


I was showing what makes grace possible, Christ's blood received by faith using a verse out of the same passage.
Rom. 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.

Then I asked did those on Pentecost receive forgiveness of sins based on the law of Moses or faith in Christ?
 
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Interplanner

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Here we see Paul speak about the "good news" of grace:

"But now the righteousness of God without law is made known, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​

Paul says "but now" the righteousness of God without law is made known. He also says that the "law and the prophets" (the OT) testify to this fact. Then in the next chapter he talks about OT saints who have been saved by grace, using both Abraham and David as his examples:

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:1-8).​

Paul then sums up his argument by saying that all men who are saved are saved by grace and their salvation is received by faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​
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The fact that Abraham and David are the examples means it was already known. That's not what Eph 3:5 is about.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
The fact that Abraham and David are the examples means it was already known. That's not what Eph 3:5 is about.
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No it doesn't. Even the Apostle did not that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34) so they knew nothing about this:

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" (Eph.1:7).​

The truth of the redemption by blood was not made known before Paul for this reason:

"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom,which God ordained before the ages unto our glory; Which none of the princes of this age knew;for had they known it,they would not have crucified the Lord of glory" (1 Cor.2:7-8).​

If the princes of the age would have known that the Lord Jesus' death would provide for the redemption of men then they would not have killed Him.
 
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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
Did you really read and think about the point I was making?

I was showing what makes grace possible, Christ's blood received by faith using a verse out of the same passage.
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This thread is not about what makes grace possible. Instead, it is about when the gospel of grace was first preached or was first made known. And nothing which you said demonstrates that Paul was not the first to reveal it.

Tell me when before Paul was it revealed that the believer is "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
This thread is not about what makes grace possible. Instead, it is about when the gospel of grace was first preached or was first made known. And nothing which you said demonstrates that Paul was not the first to reveal it.

Tell me when before Paul was it revealed that the believer is "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."
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No disrespect intended but the reason you don't want to get into what makes grace possible is because that will show it was preached before Paul. Just because Paul was the first to call it the gospel of grace or identify it as grace doesn't make it something new.

Is the gospel of Christ or the gospel of God or the gospel of peace different than the gospel of grace? They're identified as different gospels just like the gospel of the kingdom.

Nothing you have said proves that what Paul taught as the "gospel of grace" is different than what the Apostles preached on Pentecost. Those people were either saved by faith in Christ or the law of Moses, that's the only two covenants we have from God.


That's the point Paul is making, there are two options, the law of Moses and the law of faith. One saves the other does not.
Rom. 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

In Gal. 4, he makes the same point, two options.
4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.

When we look at Paul's first sermon in Acts 13, he doesn't mention grace but he does show their two options.
Acts 13:38 Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.

As we see in Hebrews, there's the old covenant and the new covenant. Are you saying there's a third covenant? Is there a 3rd option?

Can someone be taught and saved by the gospel without being told it's grace? Of course they can.

How were theses people saved? The law of Moses or law of faith?
Acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
 
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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
No disrespect intended but the reason you don't want to get into what makes grace possible is because that will show it was preached before Paul. Just because Paul was the first to call it the gospel of grace or identify it as grace doesn't make it something new.
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Since you are certain about what you say then show me where anyone before Paul revealed that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).

turbosixx said:
Is the gospel of Christ or the gospel of God or the gospel of peace different than the gospel of grace?
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The gospel of God is spoken of as being the subject of prophecy:

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures" (Ro.1:1-2).​

On the other hand, the gospel of the grace of God is said by Paul to be a "mystery" truth, or something which had not been revealed previously:

"Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past" (Ro.16:25).​

Things which differ are not the same.

turbosixx said:
Nothing you have said proves that what Paul taught as the "gospel of grace" is different than what the Apostles preached on Pentecost. Those people were either saved by faith in Christ or the law of Moses, that's the only two covenants we have from God.
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We have an uninterrupted sermon preached by Peter on the day of Pentecost beginning at Acts 2:14 and ending at Acts 2:36. In that sermon there is not a word about God's "grace" and there is not a word about the purpose of the Lord Jesus' death on the Cross. Instead, Peter used the facts of the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus to prove that He is the promised Messiah. Peter ended his sermon with the following words:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36).​

What Peter preached on the day of Pentecost had nothing to do with the fact that the believer is "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).

Again, show me where anyone before Paul preached or revealed that the believer is ""justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).

If you can't then admit that the Apostle Paul was the first to reveal that truth, the heart and soul of the "gospel of grace."
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
Does that verse say

[h=2]The Gospel of Grace--Not Made Known Until Paul ?[/h]
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Hi and read Acts 20:24 , and the ministry , which I have received from the Lord Jesus to earnestly TESTIFY the GOSPEL OF THR GRACE OF GOD !!

Here you go , MR SOP !!

Dan p
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
DAN P said:
Hi and read Acts 20:24 , and the ministry , which I have received from the Lord Jesus to earnestly TESTIFY the GOSPEL OF THR GRACE OF GOD !!

Here you go , MR SOP !!

Dan p
Click to expand...

I have read it many many times. Does it say

The Gospel of Grace--Not Made Known Until Paul ?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
Does that verse say

[h=2]The Gospel of Grace--Not Made Known Until Paul ?[/h]
Click to expand...

Even the Apostle did not that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34) so they knew nothing about this:

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" (Eph.1:7).​

The truth of the redemption by blood was not made known before Paul for this reason:

"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom,which God ordained before the ages unto our glory; Which none of the princes of this age knew;for had they known it,they would not have crucified the Lord of glory" (1 Cor.2:7-8).​

If the princes of the age would have known that the Lord Jesus' death would provide for the redemption of men then they would not have killed Him.

The Scriptures will be searched in vain looking for anyone before Paul who preached the heart and soul of the "gospel of grace," that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).
 
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DAN P

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart; The Scriptures will be searched in vain looking for anyone before Paul who preached the heart and soul of the "gospel of grace said:
"justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"[/I] (Ro.3:24).
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Hi and it does say , that the ONES IN Christ Jesus !!

Paul is the ONLY one who writes ablout being " in Christ " and that also means only those saved by the MYSTERY are in Christ as refenced in Gal 3:28 as Jesus nor the 12 write about being in Christ which is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE of the Dispensation of the Grace of God , which also means OSAS !!

DAN P
 
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