I knew fellow Christians years ago who were convinced the Four Horsemen were a metaphor for the Beatles.
Seriously.
the four horsemen
- Thread starter chrysostom
- Start date
I knew fellow Christians years ago who were convinced the Four Horsemen were a metaphor for the Beatles.
Seriously.
Anto9us
New member
"I knew fellow Christians years ago who were convinced the Four Horsemen were a metaphor for the Beatles."
And it was Pete Best - the ORIGINAL DRUMMER for the Beatles - who FIRST rode out on a white horse.
Angels called him BACK -- and Ringo went out on the White Horse later...
And it was Pete Best - the ORIGINAL DRUMMER for the Beatles - who FIRST rode out on a white horse.
Angels called him BACK -- and Ringo went out on the White Horse later...
Of course I don't think the Four Horsemen were the Beatles. I was sharing what some other Christians believed about Revelations.
I think I was aiming at the idea that the metaphoric and fantastic language of John of Patmos is so generalized that modern folks can plug in anything they want to help it make sense to them.
I could have communicated more clearly.
Historians are pretty much convinced that Revelations was a diatribe against Nero's Rome just after the Jewish-Roman war of 70 AD.
Israel was basically in a ruin and their chroniclers stepped up to the plate and wrote some hopeful and useful things to tide them over.
That's the spirit.
Thanks, Anto9us, for not taking me seriously.
Most Christians I know have different ideas for the different metaphors found in Revelations. And the Beatles idea was, unfortunately, one of those.
any explanation of the apocalypse should attempt to connect the dots
consider these:
antichrist
second beast
ten horns
thousand years
babylon the great
white horse
red horse
black horse
you start with the thousand years
it is easy to find
there is only one
and
it just happens to be christian
the byzantine empire - the thousand years
its capital was constantinople - babylon the great
it was started by constantine - rider of the white horse
it was ended by an islamic dynasty - ten horns, second beast
started by mohammed - antichrist, rider of the red horse
this was the ottoman empire
it was ended by the rusian empire - rider of the black horse
pleas see timeline of the apocalypse
if
you want to see all the dots connected
consider these:
antichrist
second beast
ten horns
thousand years
babylon the great
white horse
red horse
black horse
you start with the thousand years
it is easy to find
there is only one
and
it just happens to be christian
the byzantine empire - the thousand years
its capital was constantinople - babylon the great
it was started by constantine - rider of the white horse
it was ended by an islamic dynasty - ten horns, second beast
started by mohammed - antichrist, rider of the red horse
this was the ottoman empire
it was ended by the rusian empire - rider of the black horse
pleas see timeline of the apocalypse
if
you want to see all the dots connected
who is the pale horse ? -
don't think there is a who like the other three
the rider is death and destruction
and
it is now with us
find another thread
if
you are not interested in the apocalypse
if
you are not interested in the apocalypse
There were two main empires before the four in Daniel 2. These two empires that came before Babylon were the Egyptian and the Assyrian empires. All six of these empires began before the Cross.
And there were two main empires that came before the British empire after the Cross. These two empires that came before the British empire were the Holy Roman Empire and the Catholic Spanish Empire. There are six more important empires after the Cross.
There is a symmetry here, a design by God, and not something that happened by chance.
Revelation 6 on the four horses and riders and Revelation 13 on the first beast which is a composite of at least two nations and the second beast representing the many false prophets of Matthew 24: 11 are prophecies that were future from the point of view of the time John wrote. These prophecies are not about historical events that happened before the First Century A.D.
The lion empire of Daniel 7: 4 is the British empire and the others - the bear, the leopard and the fourth one dreadful, terrible and very strong - which follow in time exist from about 1588 when the Spanish Armada was defeated to the present. All of these four nations exist now, though England has lost most of its colonial possessions, the old Soviet Union is gone, but Russia is still a power, and Germany still exists though its Nazi regime was totally defeated in 1945. The U.S. began to become the national security state in 1947, and is now a remaining super power, though culturally and spiritually in decline. Frank Lloyd Wright said the U.S. was the only important country to go from Barbarism to Degeneracy without having a culture in between. He has been dead over 50 years.
And there were two main empires that came before the British empire after the Cross. These two empires that came before the British empire were the Holy Roman Empire and the Catholic Spanish Empire. There are six more important empires after the Cross.
There is a symmetry here, a design by God, and not something that happened by chance.
Revelation 6 on the four horses and riders and Revelation 13 on the first beast which is a composite of at least two nations and the second beast representing the many false prophets of Matthew 24: 11 are prophecies that were future from the point of view of the time John wrote. These prophecies are not about historical events that happened before the First Century A.D.
The lion empire of Daniel 7: 4 is the British empire and the others - the bear, the leopard and the fourth one dreadful, terrible and very strong - which follow in time exist from about 1588 when the Spanish Armada was defeated to the present. All of these four nations exist now, though England has lost most of its colonial possessions, the old Soviet Union is gone, but Russia is still a power, and Germany still exists though its Nazi regime was totally defeated in 1945. The U.S. began to become the national security state in 1947, and is now a remaining super power, though culturally and spiritually in decline. Frank Lloyd Wright said the U.S. was the only important country to go from Barbarism to Degeneracy without having a culture in between. He has been dead over 50 years.
so, your timeline shows the 4 horsemen coming at different times over thousands of years ? -
Anto9us
New member
"The lion empire of Daniel 7: 4 is the British empire and the others - the bear, the leopard and the fourth one dreadful, terrible and very strong - which follow in time exist from about 1588 when the Spanish Armada was defeated to the present. All of these four nations exist now, though England has lost most of its colonial possessions, the old Soviet Union is gone, but Russia is still a power, and Germany still exists though its Nazi regime was totally defeated in 1945."
all of this "newspaper & history book eschatology" can wind up making biblical prophecy into a situation of
"meaning everything and nothing"
sort of DEGRADING to the Bible
when I was in college, Henry Kissinger was definitely the AntiChrist
all of this "newspaper & history book eschatology" can wind up making biblical prophecy into a situation of
"meaning everything and nothing"
sort of DEGRADING to the Bible
when I was in college, Henry Kissinger was definitely the AntiChrist
It might seem that the prophecies of Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 are about fleshly and earthly kingdoms or empires of man and do not deal with that which is spiritual.
And - dispensationalism in its insistence that everything in scripture is literal has led many to focus on the literal or physical in the prophecy of Revelation 6: 2-6.
While the four horses of Revelation 6: 2-6 do represent physical governments, natural men as political and military leaders, and man made institutions, including the Capital C Churches, the riders upon these natural horses can be seen as supernatural entities. In Daniel 10: 13-21 the angel which was sent to give Daniel the prophecies recorded in Daniel 11 and 12 says the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood him for twenty-one days. The prince of Grecia is mentioned in Daniel 10: 20. You might think, in a literal way, that these are earthly princes. But they are supernatural beings, fallen angels.
The four riders on the houses of Revelation 6: 2-6 can be fallen angels. The fallen angels are steering the horses, representing natural men, governments and their military forces.
Remember that the common thread in all four horses and riders is conquest, killing, and taking peace from the earth. This is partly why Daniel 7 with its four beast empires fits with the four horses and riders. Each empire has a fallen angel "prince" over it. The parallels between the four empires in Daniel 2 and in Daniel 7 suggest the same fallen angels were over both sets of four. This does not mean that the empires of Daniel 7 are the same as those in Daniel 2.
Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel 2 about the statute was a prophetic revelation of four empires, now all gone in ancient history. Spiritually, these four empires of Daniel 2 marked the kingdoms of man up to the fourth kingdom or empire, the Roman Empire.
"And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever." Daniel 2: 44. But the kingdom of God is not an earthly one. The kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17: 21).
Then, in Daniel 7: 4-7 the four parallel empires mark the time from the rise of the Protestant empires to the time of Christ's return. This does not mean that the Protestant empires were perfect or that they were fully Christian, because the red horse empire of the Soviet Union was anti-Christ and the black horse Nazi empire, though it sometimes claimed to be Christian, was not really Christian. Its just that there was a Christian, mostly Protestant, presence in all four of these beast empires of Daniel 7.
The four statute empires of Daniel 2 marked the time period of the Babylonian exile to the first appearing of Christ and the Diaspora of the multitude of Old Covenant Israel after their rejection of Christ. The Roman empire was still in power at the time of the Diaspora of the multitude of Old Covenant Israel.
The four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 mark the time from the rise of the British empire until the second appearing of Christ.
The four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 are the basis for the four horsemen of Revelation 6.
See: http://www.finalinstructions-logospubco.com/the-four-horsemen.htm
The site above is one of several on the Internet which teach that the four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 are the basis for the four horses and riders of Revelation 6.
Here is another site on the empires of Daniel 7 being the basis for the four horsemen of Revelation 6: http://kenraggio.com/KRPN-Four-Beasts-Of-Daniel.html
This site above says "Daniel dreamed of four great kingdoms that necessarily EXIST ON EARTH at the time of the Second Coming of Jesus."
The site also points out that Daniel 7: 12 says that the four beast kingdoms had their dominion taken away, yet they were allowed to exist for a time. With the four empires of Daniel 2 each successive empire replaced the one before it, and the Roman empire continued on into the era of the New Covenant for some time.
"As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him." Daniel 7: 12-13
You have to read the scriptures carefully; they are revelation and not written like a high school textbook, which spells everything out in great detail so the kiddies who are not too sharp can understand it to some extent.
And - dispensationalism in its insistence that everything in scripture is literal has led many to focus on the literal or physical in the prophecy of Revelation 6: 2-6.
While the four horses of Revelation 6: 2-6 do represent physical governments, natural men as political and military leaders, and man made institutions, including the Capital C Churches, the riders upon these natural horses can be seen as supernatural entities. In Daniel 10: 13-21 the angel which was sent to give Daniel the prophecies recorded in Daniel 11 and 12 says the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood him for twenty-one days. The prince of Grecia is mentioned in Daniel 10: 20. You might think, in a literal way, that these are earthly princes. But they are supernatural beings, fallen angels.
The four riders on the houses of Revelation 6: 2-6 can be fallen angels. The fallen angels are steering the horses, representing natural men, governments and their military forces.
Remember that the common thread in all four horses and riders is conquest, killing, and taking peace from the earth. This is partly why Daniel 7 with its four beast empires fits with the four horses and riders. Each empire has a fallen angel "prince" over it. The parallels between the four empires in Daniel 2 and in Daniel 7 suggest the same fallen angels were over both sets of four. This does not mean that the empires of Daniel 7 are the same as those in Daniel 2.
Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel 2 about the statute was a prophetic revelation of four empires, now all gone in ancient history. Spiritually, these four empires of Daniel 2 marked the kingdoms of man up to the fourth kingdom or empire, the Roman Empire.
"And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever." Daniel 2: 44. But the kingdom of God is not an earthly one. The kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17: 21).
Then, in Daniel 7: 4-7 the four parallel empires mark the time from the rise of the Protestant empires to the time of Christ's return. This does not mean that the Protestant empires were perfect or that they were fully Christian, because the red horse empire of the Soviet Union was anti-Christ and the black horse Nazi empire, though it sometimes claimed to be Christian, was not really Christian. Its just that there was a Christian, mostly Protestant, presence in all four of these beast empires of Daniel 7.
The four statute empires of Daniel 2 marked the time period of the Babylonian exile to the first appearing of Christ and the Diaspora of the multitude of Old Covenant Israel after their rejection of Christ. The Roman empire was still in power at the time of the Diaspora of the multitude of Old Covenant Israel.
The four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 mark the time from the rise of the British empire until the second appearing of Christ.
The four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 are the basis for the four horsemen of Revelation 6.
See: http://www.finalinstructions-logospubco.com/the-four-horsemen.htm
The site above is one of several on the Internet which teach that the four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 are the basis for the four horses and riders of Revelation 6.
Here is another site on the empires of Daniel 7 being the basis for the four horsemen of Revelation 6: http://kenraggio.com/KRPN-Four-Beasts-Of-Daniel.html
This site above says "Daniel dreamed of four great kingdoms that necessarily EXIST ON EARTH at the time of the Second Coming of Jesus."
The site also points out that Daniel 7: 12 says that the four beast kingdoms had their dominion taken away, yet they were allowed to exist for a time. With the four empires of Daniel 2 each successive empire replaced the one before it, and the Roman empire continued on into the era of the New Covenant for some time.
"As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him." Daniel 7: 12-13
You have to read the scriptures carefully; they are revelation and not written like a high school textbook, which spells everything out in great detail so the kiddies who are not too sharp can understand it to some extent.
The four horsemen:
(Ezk 14:21) For thus saith the Lord God; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?
It happened 66AD - 70AD (3.5 years)
John tells us it was Jerusalem. Jerusalem in 70AD was the harlot Babylon. Jerusalem in 70AD was spiritually called Sodom and Egypt:
(Rev 11:8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
which one is responsible for the abomination of desolation?