The Ever Present Problem of Atheism (HOF thread)

[Aimiel]

Re: Re: Swift Kick

Re: Re: Swift Kick

Originally posted by Gerald And I think you've come up with an absolutely wonderful cop-out for explaining why magic, psychic powers, etc. don't work: the mere presence of Christians prevents reality from flipping out, and when they all leave, all the nasty critters, none of whose existence has been effectively demonstrated, will suddenly materialize and start having a global block party.

Well, I never said that would happen. I merely asked, "What if..." You have not answered my question. I have heard stories about the power of the enemy, and I have seen witchcraft in operation. Attemptinig to control my behavior by deriding my beliefs and laughing at me could be construed as witchcraft. You were certainly, "imposing his will on yours; as well as imposing on people emotions, behaviors or circumstances they would not otherwise want," but I guess you don't think of what you might do possibly being witchcraft, since you don't have a pointy hat and a wart on your nose, or ride a broom. Do you have a broom? I shudder to think of the evil that lurks in your house, with that Ouija board and the Tarot cards being there. I'll bet your house is blessed, indeed.

 

[Gerald]

Okay, what if...

Okay, what if...

All right, I'll bite.

If there existed people who brandished powers and abilities like something out of X-Men, I'd be dead a hundred times over, because if they behaved like tyrants I'd go out of my way to wizz on them, literally and figuratively. Does that answer your question?

I have heard stories about the power of the enemy, and I have seen witchcraft in operation.

Do tell. I mean really, lay some examples on me. I'd like to know how it is I never come across anything supernatural when other folks seem to be tripping over supernatural this-and-that on the way to the bathroom.

Attemptinig to control my behavior by deriding my beliefs and laughing at me could be construed as witchcraft.

So, in a society where witchcraft is a capital offense, it behooves me to stick to honest methods of controlling others' behavior, like threats of bodily injury...? (no threat against you, fG7, just an example.)

 

[Aimiel]

Re: Okay, what if...

Re: Okay, what if...

Originally posted by Gerald If there existed people who brandished powers and abilities like something out of X-Men, I'd be dead a hundred times over, because if they behaved like tyrants I'd go out of my way to wizz on them, literally and figuratively. Does that answer your question?

Yes.

Do tell. I mean really, lay some examples on me. I'd like to know how it is I never come across anything supernatural when other folks seem to be tripping over supernatural this-and-that on the way to the bathroom.

Well, I can't name any names, but I have seen many people (professing Christians) using their office and stature as a weapon against the believers that they are supposed to be protecting. This opens the door for demons to be in operation, and these things are done subtly. If they operated in the light, we would hold them accountable, and they would not be able to do anything at all, or at least be so restricted that sin would soon be done away with. You are looking in the natural, and don't see in the spirit-realm, because you are walking after the flesh instead of walking in the spirit.

So, in a society where witchcraft is a capital offense, it behooves me to stick to honest methods of controlling others' behavior, like threats of bodily injury...? (no threat against you, fG7, just an example.)

Well, you should abhor evil, and witchcraft is just as evil as threats of bodily harm.

 

[Gerald]

Re: Re: Okay, what if...

Re: Re: Okay, what if...

Originally posted by famousGandalf7
You are looking in the natural, and don't see in the spirit-realm, because you are walking after the flesh instead of walking in the spirit.

I suppose I'm stuck, then, because I have never in my life come across anything, anything at all, that would indicate that "the spirit-realm" even exists.

Well, you should abhor evil, and witchcraft is just as evil as threats of bodily harm.

That's where we differ; I do not consider it evil to, for example, say to a bully "stop picking on 'person x' or I'll break your arm" if it gets the bully to change his behavior.

But I suppose, from your perspective, that would "open the door" to a demon of wrath or some such, who might possess the bully and cause him to call my bluff, in which case the result is a bully with a broken arm...

 

[Aimiel]

Re: Re: Re: Okay, what if...

Re: Re: Re: Okay, what if...

Originally posted by Gerald That's where we differ; I do not consider it evil to, for example, say to a bully "stop picking on 'person x' or I'll break your arm" if it gets the bully to change his behavior.

I would call that, "police action," and consider it to be good... when done so within the law.

But I suppose, from your perspective, that would "open the door" to a demon of wrath or some such, who might possess the bully and cause him to call my bluff, in which case the result is a bully with a broken arm...

No, but it does give license to God, who is a vengeful God, and visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the third and fourth generation of them that hate Him. It also calls for stripes, because, "...whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." If you do this in America, you will most likely be arrested for assault, sued for damages, and lose your livelihood.

 

[Gerald]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Okay, what if...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Okay, what if...

Originally posted by famousGandalf7 If you do this in America, you will most likely be arrested for assault, sued for damages, and lose your livelihood.

Not if you get the other guy to swing first; then it becomes self-defense.

This is called "manipulating the situation to your advantage"...

Usually, saying something unflattering about the other guy's manhood (or, failing that, his parentage...) is most effective.

Law enforcement does this all the time: they're called "sting operations". Unless the do them wrong; then they're called "entrapment"...

 

[Aimiel]

Watch Out

Watch Out

At least you admit to what you would do. I would not try to provoke anyone to do evil, but you sound like you're smarter than the average bear, and I would expect you to try to avoid such confrontation, if at all possible. Manipulating the situation to your advantage, as you call it, often backfires. Many idiots who use bullying tactics often carry weapons, and are just itching for an excuse to use them on someone they feel is deserving.

 

[Gerald]

Re: Watch Out

Re: Watch Out

Originally posted by famousGandalf7
At least you admit to what you would do. I would not try to provoke anyone to do evil, but you sound like you're smarter than the average bear, and I would expect you to try to avoid such confrontation, if at all possible.

Indeed! The BOAPW is to resolve a situation without resorting to violence.

However, you are not required to let your opponent know that; better to let him think that you are ready, nay, eager to rip out his spleen and eat it...

Manipulating the situation to your advantage, as you call it, often backfires. Many idiots who use bullying tactics often carry weapons, and are just itching for an excuse to use them on someone they feel is deserving.

That's where a brown belt in gojuryu karate comes in handy, just in case it should come to that. Pepper spray also helps...

Fortunately, the conflicts of that magnitude which I've been in, in my whole life, can be counted on one hand with fingers to spare.

 

[Aimiel]

Re: Re: Watch Out

Re: Re: Watch Out

Originally posted by Gerald Fortunately, the conflicts of that magnitude which I've been in, in my whole life, can be counted on one hand with fingers to spare.

Thank God for that. Our karate teacher teaches us that if you can run away, you just won.

 

[Gerald]

Hoo Hah!

Hoo Hah!

Originally posted by famousGandalf7
Thank God for that. Our karate teacher teaches us that if you can run away, you just won.

A fellow karateka!:thumb:

What style do you study?

 

[Aimiel]

Time Capsule

Time Capsule

Shotokan (SP?), I think, golly that was over 25 years ago, right after I got out of the U.S. Navy (the best of the three armed services).

 

[Z Man]

A fellow sailor! :thumb:
Were you enlisted or an officer? What did you do?

 

[Aimiel]

Long story, not gonna' talk about it... next question.

Long story, not gonna' talk about it... next question.

.

 

[Z Man]

That's ok; I got your message. :thumb:

 

[shima]

Its just absolute nonsense. Wiccans don't worship the devil any more than christians do.

Just suppose tha magic actually works, hows wielding magic any different from wielding any other power?

"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"

 

[Gerald]

That's what I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around: the notion that people still believe that magic works. Of course, people believe in ghosts, psychic powers and alien abductions, so what's one more thing on the pile...?

From an online conversation I had:

If psychic powers don't exist, how does Uri Geller bend spoons?

I suppose I should be grateful he didn't ask how David Copperfield flew or made the Statue of Liberty disappear...where's a banghead smilie when you need one?

 

[RogerB]

I believe that any spiritual power other than that which comes from God must come from Satan. It may be "convenient" for Wiccans to proclaim that they don't worship Satan but they certainly walk along side him.

 

[Aimiel]

Gerald, Get with It, Man

Gerald, Get with It, Man

If psychic powers don't exist, how does Uri Geller bend spoons?

Didn't you see, "Matrix?" The one little kid in that movie told 'our hero' (Keenau Reeves) that the spoon wasn't the thing, there is no spoon. It is your mind that gets bent.

GET BENT!!!

 

[shima]

>>I believe that any spiritual power other than that which comes from God must come from Satan. It may be "convenient" for Wiccans to proclaim that they don't worship Satan but they certainly walk along side him.<<

And how do you know that their spiritual power DOESN'T come from God? Do you know God well enough to make that judgement?

 

[Aimiel]

Nonsense is Not Sensible

Nonsense is Not Sensible

Originally posted by shima Its just absolute nonsense. Wiccans don't worship the devil any more than christians do.

If you aren't a Christian, you are a slave of the devil, who is a hard task-master. There are many forms of Satan-worship, and all who are un-godly commit their lives to Satan, whether they know it or not. He is the 'god of this world.' Our Lord, Jesus, has given us the power, authority and the instructions on how to defeat, destroy and de-throne this enemy of all that is good. We just haven't gotten together and done so, yet. As we begin to pool our resources and create a global game-plan, we are about to begin sweeping this planet with the light of this Glorious Gospel and take back what rightfully belongs to Jesus, rulership of this planet.

Just suppose tha magic actually works, hows wielding magic any different from wielding any other power?

Well, for one thing, using witchcraft always backfires on the 'magician.' The enemy designed it that way. For another, there is nothing that is any good that comes from it, and there are many things happening right along with it (magic) that cannot be seen. Similar to disease, which is so subtle that inhaling a single cell can cause sickness, sometimes even death.

"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"

Right, which is why God does not just pour out power and ability, indiscriminately. He uses His Love to call individuals; and when they respond in that Love, answer It's call, and begin to allow the Spirit of the Living God to pour out to the world through them, He can begin to use His Absolute Power, through these fully-yielded vessels.