ECT The essential irrationality of Dispensationalism

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Interplanner

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DAN P said:
Hi and mention JUST 20 pieces of information and impress me , IF you can , LOL !!

Maybe I know more than you ?

So , where is the one GOSPEL in Rom 5:14 from Adam to Moses , DO YOU HAVE IT NOW ??

dan p
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I have no time for games. What is one question about the passage?
 
musterion

musterion

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I posted the following somewhere, where MAD was being maligned. It has been "awaiting moderation" for a few days; I expect a reply is being formulated before it gets posted.

Hello.

MAD here. Just one question, please, but first I think we’ll agree on the following:

Christ had twelve Spirit-filled, miracle-working, Kingdom-preaching apostles, each representing a tribe of Israel, chosen to lead the washed, redeemed nation of priests (Exo 19:6; Mark 1:15; Acts 2:38) unto the entire lost Gentile world with the good news of Messiah, the King of all the earth.

But then, something odd happened.

Christ chose Saul/Paul to be the preeminent apostle to the Gentiles, and restricted the ministry of the Twelve to the circumcision (Gal 2:2-9). About the final 2/3rds of Acts indicate that this is exactly what happened, as do the addressees of the general epistles. In short, the entire focus of God’s dealings on earth shifts from Peter and the others being the point men, to Paul and his associates.

So my question:

Why did this shift take place?

For example, what happened to the “great commission” given to the Twelve? It was indeed in motion, exactly as Christ had described it, right up through Acts 2 and the following few chapters. But later…nothing. Instead, we see Christ graciously drafting his bitter enemy and sending him to the Gentiles, and that without the miracle-working Twelve and a restored, Spirit-filled nation of priests at his back.

Please explain why this change took place.

We MADs believe the answer is plain. You already know what our answer is, so I’ll not belabor it. I’d like to know what YOU believe is the reason for the change.

Thank you very much in advance,
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musterion

musterion

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Interplanner said:
You want me to believe that Hebrews is only for Jews.
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That's who the book speaks to and about. STP and others have read that to you.

Then you want me to believe that the new covenant is only for Jews.
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That's who God said He was making it with. They've read that, too.

Your problem, simply, is unbelief. You have reasons to not want the Bible to say what it plainly says...you want God not to have said what He has said.
 
I

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musterion said:
That's who the book speaks to and about. STP and others have read that to you.



That's who God said He was making it with. They've read that, too.

Your problem, simply, is unbelief. You have reasons to not want the Bible to say what it plainly says...you want God not to have said what He has said.
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Yes, unbelief in a fractured Bible.

Everything glorious about hebrews is for all other believers, so what the crap is that about?

You persist in ignoring the other passages in which all those glorious things are said to be for all who believe. You unbelieve that. There's 10 other passages and STP has never to my knowledge said squat about them, which is about as dishonest as theology gets.

Hebrews can't even be for the race because they have to have faith in Christ the new sacrifice! they are 'not the ones who shrink back'! Don't you know these things? don't you have any memory? don't you have eyes? What a pile of hooey you live on because you are trying to please Chafer and his declaration that the bible is confused without him. Grow your mind and your faith and your honesty!

2P2P and D'ism are not plain and are not what 'In the Seed, all the nations will be blessed' was about. That's why I don't believe YOU and your gaming. It is hooey and Chafer wanted to be worshipped.
 
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I

Interplanner

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Show me something in hebrews that can't possibly apply to the rest of us; it probably has to do with the turmoil in israel in that generation, like ch 6. Otherwise we look forward to the Jerusalem above just like Gal 4. ETc ETc Etc
 
musterion

musterion

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Interplanner said:
Yes, unbelief in a fractured Bible.
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Answer this.

Why did this shift [from the 12 to Paul] take place?

For example, what happened to the “great commission” given to the Twelve? It was indeed in motion, exactly as Christ had described it, right up through Acts 2 and the following few chapters. But later…nothing. Instead, we see Christ graciously drafting his bitter enemy and sending him to the Gentiles, and that without the miracle-working Twelve and a restored, Spirit-filled nation of priests at his back.

Please explain why this change took place.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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Yes, unbelief in a fractured Bible.

Everything glorious about hebrews is for all other believers, so what the crap is that about?

You persist in ignoring the other passages in which all those glorious things are said to be for all who believe. You unbelieve that. There's 10 other passages and STP has never to my knowledge said squat about them, which is about as dishonest as theology gets.

Hebrews can't even be for the race because they have to have faith in Christ the new sacrifice! they are 'not the ones who shrink back'! Don't you know these things? don't you have any memory? don't you have eyes? What a pile of hooey you live on because you are trying to please Chafer and his declaration that the bible is confused without him. Grow your mind and your faith and your honesty!

2P2P and D'ism are not plain and are not what 'In the Seed, all the nations will be blessed' was about. That's why I don't believe YOU and your gaming. It is hooey and Chafer wanted to be worshipped.
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Totally made up.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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Show me something in hebrews that can't possibly apply to the rest of us; it probably has to do with the turmoil in israel in that generation, like ch 6. Otherwise we look forward to the Jerusalem above just like Gal 4. ETc ETc Etc
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You have a 0% chance of being a king and priest, like the Hebrews.
You have a 0% chance of inheriting the New Jerusalem.
 
musterion

musterion

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In the mind of many, they can have the dispensation of grace AND the new covenant, not realizing that if you have one, you don't need both.

To claim a covenant (nevermind one expressly made with another party and never with you) implies that you, personally, need a "deal" with God and assumes He made one specifically with you as an individual. You don't need grace -- you have a "deal" with God.

Covenant claiming is theft of another's belongings (Israel's) and thereby calls God a liar because it denies the very grace He says is your only hope.
 
I

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musterion said:
In the mind of many, they can have the dispensation of grace AND the new covenant, not realizing that if you have one, you don't need both.

To claim a covenant (nevermind one expressly made with another party and never with you) implies that you, personally, need a "deal" with God and assumes He made one specifically with you as an individual. You don't need grace -- you have a "deal" with God.

Covenant claiming is theft of another's belongings (Israel's) and thereby calls God a liar because it denies the very grace He says is your only hope.
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The reason the covenant is new is that it was done by Christ already. In fact, anyone in christ recieves it. 'sacrifices and offereings you did not desire, but a body you prepared' is how Hebrews describes the business of putting it into effect.

You are obstinately rebellious toward what the Word says here, sticking with 8:8 only and never reading anything else the NT says, which would demolish your argument. You drip with guilt whereas it is spreads grace, which says everything.

Worst of all, you are not doing your part in the ministry of reconciling men's sins because you have this total imaginary belief thanks to Chafer that there is some other purpose for the whole thing.

Your whole system is built on a guy who wanted to make himself famous for having figured out the otherwise confused Bible.
 
I

Interplanner

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musterion said:
Answer this.

Why did this shift [from the 12 to Paul] take place?

For example, what happened to the “great commission” given to the Twelve? It was indeed in motion, exactly as Christ had described it, right up through Acts 2 and the following few chapters. But later…nothing. Instead, we see Christ graciously drafting his bitter enemy and sending him to the Gentiles, and that without the miracle-working Twelve and a restored, Spirit-filled nation of priests at his back.

Please explain why this change took place.
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God supernaturally sent Peter to the Gentiles at the same time. In fact that is Peter's recollection of what happened in his account in ch 15.

Remember, the 12 were the guys who were dejected that christ didn't redeem Israel in Luke 24, and still asking about Israel's kingdom in Acts 1 where they were flatly rebuked for the nonsense. It's a really, really deep root, so deep that Chafer picked it up 19 centuries later and thought he could solve the bible with it and now has millions of baby Christians infected with 'knowledge' which is neither knowledge nor empowering them into the mission of Christ. But Chafer got worshiped for inventing it and that's what matters.

The fact that the issue of Acts 15 came up shows it was never cured even in the early Christian Jewish church.
 
I

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musterion said:
Heb 10:38-39 cannot apply to the Body of Christ while Col 2:13 does. Contradictory.
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If it applies to escaping the destruction of Jerusalem yes. Does it? Otherwise it applies to anything from which we as believer might shrink back, because they were believers, and the community of faith is one, and this kind of command would not be given to a legal state.
 
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