Hi and explain where I am clueless and I will explain where I am coming from and I know when I see and read a dispensationalist , so go for it and get it off your mind ?
dan p
ECT The essential irrationality of Dispensationalism
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Hi and explain where I am clueless and I will explain where I am coming from and I know when I see and read a dispensationalist , so go for it and get it off your mind ?
dan p
The KJV Greek text uses 'hellenistes' in Act 11:20. Many other GK texts use 'hellenes'.
Up to this point in Acts, 'hellenistes' is typically understood to mean 'Greek speaking Jews' by most everyone that I've read.
I was merely saying that if Rick Jordan fudges on that KJV usage then he appears to be compromising his own freqently voiced KJV Only position as being the guarded and preserved Word of GOD for English speaking people.
It was merely an observation on my part.
I hold the same position as you on Rick Jordan.
I have biases, no doubt, and unrecognized ones on my part. Everybody does.
Again, my statement was merely an observation concerning what Jordan has said repeatedly vs his compromise(according to what you said) on Act 11:20.
I really wasn't expecting a lecture and the apparent condescending put down, though I guess I should have.
Good to know, though to their 'unique' position I freely admit that I don't know.
As I've said many times before, "I doubt that I agree on everything with anybody".
Hey, I'm proud of ya' for it!
I investigate continually as subjects arise that I deem necessary to investigate.
I find it impossible to investigate all subjects available to us and most I do not investigate exhaustively, though my investigations do leave me exhausted at times.
Sometimes, I chase the rabbits which other people think that I should chase but mostly I have my own steadily growing pile of information that I am working to plow thru.
Sometimes soundbytes are valuable and sometimes not. We all hear 'em.
Well I might at some point, but as I said.....
Speaking of 'high horses'... nah I'll leave it alone.
They are my brother and sister in Christ. I've learned much from their 'soundbytes', as I have also from yours.
I know they are KJVO and they likely know that I'm not.
That is really not a problem for me, that they are.... nor Jordan either for that matter.
I continue to read and listen.
Looks like you've got your work cut out for ya'!
Speaking of 'holier than thou', are you aware that.... nah, I'll leave it alone.
Yep!
Eagles Wings
New member
I like how you put this.
There is nothing better than exhaustion born of study and prayer in God's Word.
Yeah, among the very few who actually do; the brother does stand out...like few.
Rom. 5:8.
Interplanner
Well-known member
The bible does not ask Dispensationalism what it means. It means what the text/context says:
"Seeing what was ahead (about the throne), David spoke of the resurrection of Christ. God has raised...exalted to the right hand of God, he has received the promised Spirit and poured out what you see..."
All of these things are packaged to the enthronement: being exalted, the Spirit's outpouring, the fulfillment of the promise, which Gal 3 says goes back to Abraham.
This leads to v34: The Lord said to my Lord...
which is an enthronement psalm.
So RD you are totally misfit on this.
2, I dont' know about your pastor, but Peter was not a disconnected space case who jumped X000 years every other line. He didn't jump from the throne seen ahead to the resurrection; it was the enthronement. He didn't jump from the res to X000 in the future, either.
It is this plastic spastic glomming of some far remote future episode imposed into the text that is so mental. It has nothing to do with it, and the text has nothing about a restoration of Israel as they knew it. The NT is going the direction of the mission that was promised since Abraham to link to the Seed of Gen 3.
"Lord and Christ" is enthronement language, it is the title above all others.
Eph 1 matches what Peter says here; Peter and Paul are totally unified.
The enthroned Christ is also to whom ch 4's prayer is made, that he would intervene against persecution to 'secular' authorities...and why did they pray from Ps 2? Because it was an enthronement psalm.
It should be criminal for people to use the OT without its NT meaning, but that's all I can say on that; that I wish it were.
Obviously the OT will mean completely different things when not routed through Christ. Just look at the logger head wrangling over genealogy of Tam and Jamie!
Interplanner
Well-known member
There is nothing about a future for the land of Israel, neither specific texts in the NT, nor theological reason in the most wide-reaching doctrinal passages.
All that is just more of your ever endless, absolutely worthless nonsense.
Truth of the matter is that the line of thought in Acts 2 and 3 after their having been endued with power from on High, is their exact same line of thought as in Acts 1.
That Jesus had been their Prophesied King of Israel; King David's rightful heir, Whom they had ignorantly crucified.
This here, you incompetent...
Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
...is this here, in verse 51..
John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
And verse 51 there, is this here...
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
In other words, that is this here...
Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
Verses 10-16 there?
This here...
Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them, 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead. 4:3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide. 4:7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, 4:9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. 4:14 And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.
And so on...
Nevertheless, Romans 5:8 towards you, Interplanner - hopefully you really do have that much right.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Made up.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
This is a conglomeration of various ideas pulled from commentaries, which say nothing.
Interplanner
Well-known member
More on the enthronement of Christ.
Hebrews:
Heb 1 echoes the Eph 1 theme of a name above any other after the Gospel, 1:3. That's a perfect time to quote the same ethronement psalm (2), and he did, 1:5.
v8, continues:
"About the Son (David) says:
Your throne O Lord will last for ever and ever...
God, your God, has set you above your companions..."
v8-9 (Ps 45)
I hope Tam and Jamie and RD are listening to David speak of Christ's throne, set there by God. This was the resurrection. this is all past tense.
The apostles never miss Ps 110, either, when then can proclaim Christ reigning: v13
In ch 2, as you know there is the textual issue that allows for two routes. One is that v5-8 are about Christ-over-mankind (him, singular); the other is that it is about Christ-over-angels (them, plural) because all this started with the superiority of Christ over all other names that can be named, and that the law (the message spoken by angels) was superceded.
As I have shown in previous threads, the first half of Hebrews is Christ over angels, over Aaron, and over the old covenant, being the new covenant.
God, v5, has subjected the world to come to Christ. It was expected at any time. One more of the 1000 places where the NT uniformly says that the end of the world was that close. STP is a total waste on this topic.
He adds in v5 that it (the NHNE) is "about which we are speaking." Where's that from? It's from 'the great salvation' of 3. It is the 'restoration of everything' of Acts 3:21. That's not about Israel, it is about everything. As it says, in plain language. One more of the 1000 places where the NT uniformly says that the end of the world was that close. STP is a total waste on this topic.
You simply have to ignore D'ism and 2P2P and the NT will be totally clear.
If you think the way the NT thought about the immediacy of the return of Christ after the destruction of Israel, the NT will be clear. It is the forcing of X000 years into these texts that is madness.
Obviously, being about the NHNE, we do not see everything on this earth subject to him, Heb 2:8. We see what faith sees, through the Spirit, that Christ is now crowned for having tasted death for everyone. That's everyone in mankind, not in Israel. this is another of the 100 places where the NT proclaims Christ as enthroned. Past tense. It has nothing to do with a setting X000 years in the future in the locality of Jerusalem, Israel. there is no need after such a great salvation has taken place.
I don't know of the reign theme further in Hebrews, but in I Cor 15, there is a substantial chunk.
I Cor 15:
Christ reigns through his resurrection. those in Christ will be made alive. Christ was the first of these, then those who belong to him when he comes. "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to the father..." v24. He is reigning in his kingdom now, and all earth is to know this and honor him. That is the basic Christian proclamation since his resurrection. The Son will be angry with those who do not honor him, even "dominions, authorities and powers." v24, from Ps 2. Gosh it's always Ps 2! although the gift of reigning over defeated enemies is Ps 110. I'm no fan of state churches or theocracies, but at least many of them realized that 'the government' needed to honor Christ in Western history.
v25: He must reign... He is reigning now and must reign until the last enemy is destroyed, death. "Must reign" here and v27's "God himself, who put everything under Christ" are past tense as we would expect, since David saw the enthronement of Christ, in advance, through his resurrection.
I am so looking forward to "the death of death." Amen.
There are no details here about setting up a kingdom on earth in Judea for a while. All the antecedents are taken care of. A kingdom of Israel was a so-called 'problem' that Chafer and D'ism thought they needed to solve, so they glommed it back on to the texts involved, so that the Bible made 'sense.'
Hebrews:
Heb 1 echoes the Eph 1 theme of a name above any other after the Gospel, 1:3. That's a perfect time to quote the same ethronement psalm (2), and he did, 1:5.
v8, continues:
"About the Son (David) says:
Your throne O Lord will last for ever and ever...
God, your God, has set you above your companions..."
v8-9 (Ps 45)
I hope Tam and Jamie and RD are listening to David speak of Christ's throne, set there by God. This was the resurrection. this is all past tense.
The apostles never miss Ps 110, either, when then can proclaim Christ reigning: v13
In ch 2, as you know there is the textual issue that allows for two routes. One is that v5-8 are about Christ-over-mankind (him, singular); the other is that it is about Christ-over-angels (them, plural) because all this started with the superiority of Christ over all other names that can be named, and that the law (the message spoken by angels) was superceded.
As I have shown in previous threads, the first half of Hebrews is Christ over angels, over Aaron, and over the old covenant, being the new covenant.
God, v5, has subjected the world to come to Christ. It was expected at any time. One more of the 1000 places where the NT uniformly says that the end of the world was that close. STP is a total waste on this topic.
He adds in v5 that it (the NHNE) is "about which we are speaking." Where's that from? It's from 'the great salvation' of 3. It is the 'restoration of everything' of Acts 3:21. That's not about Israel, it is about everything. As it says, in plain language. One more of the 1000 places where the NT uniformly says that the end of the world was that close. STP is a total waste on this topic.
You simply have to ignore D'ism and 2P2P and the NT will be totally clear.
If you think the way the NT thought about the immediacy of the return of Christ after the destruction of Israel, the NT will be clear. It is the forcing of X000 years into these texts that is madness.
Obviously, being about the NHNE, we do not see everything on this earth subject to him, Heb 2:8. We see what faith sees, through the Spirit, that Christ is now crowned for having tasted death for everyone. That's everyone in mankind, not in Israel. this is another of the 100 places where the NT proclaims Christ as enthroned. Past tense. It has nothing to do with a setting X000 years in the future in the locality of Jerusalem, Israel. there is no need after such a great salvation has taken place.
I don't know of the reign theme further in Hebrews, but in I Cor 15, there is a substantial chunk.
I Cor 15:
Christ reigns through his resurrection. those in Christ will be made alive. Christ was the first of these, then those who belong to him when he comes. "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to the father..." v24. He is reigning in his kingdom now, and all earth is to know this and honor him. That is the basic Christian proclamation since his resurrection. The Son will be angry with those who do not honor him, even "dominions, authorities and powers." v24, from Ps 2. Gosh it's always Ps 2! although the gift of reigning over defeated enemies is Ps 110. I'm no fan of state churches or theocracies, but at least many of them realized that 'the government' needed to honor Christ in Western history.
v25: He must reign... He is reigning now and must reign until the last enemy is destroyed, death. "Must reign" here and v27's "God himself, who put everything under Christ" are past tense as we would expect, since David saw the enthronement of Christ, in advance, through his resurrection.
I am so looking forward to "the death of death." Amen.
There are no details here about setting up a kingdom on earth in Judea for a while. All the antecedents are taken care of. A kingdom of Israel was a so-called 'problem' that Chafer and D'ism thought they needed to solve, so they glommed it back on to the texts involved, so that the Bible made 'sense.'
Right Divider
Body part
The enthronement is STILL ahead DIngleBerry.
Or are you going to tell us that Christ has already returned with all of His holy angels?
Matt 25:31-33 (AKJV/PCE)
(25:31) ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (25:32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: (25:33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
I suppose that He has already gathered all nations and separated them too?
Stop trying to force your fairly tale on the Bible.
Interplanner
Well-known member
You are not listening. I'm saying that it was expected. Your verse is not timestamped, though it tells WHAT would happen.
All NT indications are that this was expected very soon, and the destruction of Israel was expected very soon, with the judgement right after.
But the enthronement declarations about Christ are too numerous regardless. I did an essay on it this morning above and at another. They go on and on and on. They are usually based on Ps 2 and 110, but in heb 1 another is based on Ps 45.
get off your soaking wet carboard pedestal you made for yourself and do some reading, learning.
Interplanner
Well-known member
#293 is the essay on those in hebrews and I Cor 15, and nothing about something on this earth or in Judea. It's on the world to come "about which we are speaking" Heb 2:5.
Interplanner
Well-known member
RD have you ever thought about growing up past age 14 and not calling people names?
Right Divider
Body part
:rotfl:
So the LORD Jesus Christ has already returned with all of His holy angels?
So the LORD Jesus Christ has already gathered the nations and separated them?
You are clueless because you're blinded by your fairy tale.
Right Divider
Body part
You have earned it pal.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Didn't you call RD an idiot, twice, this week?
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