Answer the questions, Dave:
Can a plane fly sideways?
Can a plane go from flying horizontally to flying vertically?
The earth is flat and we never went to the moon
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Can a plane fly sideways?
Can a plane go from flying horizontally to flying vertically?
He is winning the point. Don't be afraid of logic. If you don't see the point he's making then answer his question and see where it goes. If you do see his point then respond to it because I do see his point and he's got you on this one. There is no contradiction, you're just wrong. There's no shame in being wrong but there is in staying that way.
I never questioned this until a watched video that contradicts the whole idea of what planets and stars look like. I have posted them and they must be addressed with out simple mockery.
I was only interested in flat earth, before this, as an ancient cosmology, but some of the video and arguments being made today surprised me, to say the least. I wanted to share this here to get a good debate from people I know here, and respect like you, to see how others would respond to it.
As soon as I can I will be getting a good camera, or telescope, or both.
I have an art background so I understand the perspective arguments but curvature and refraction are also a real possibility.
One who considers the opposing view to be a possibility takes this seriously and is more genuine and respectful to the opposing side. I don't care for either side when they mock the other.
Tell me if you see in these P900 videos the same thing through your telescope or not. They seem to me to be quite different than the usual pictures we see.
--Dave
Dave, If you want discussion, answer the questions that are put to you.
Apparently, for flat Earth people, hurricanes and Foucault pendulums don't exist.
The original point I made was that planes can fly level/straight and eventually see the earths curvature slowly drop beneath it. In reality they climb to a certain altitude then "level" off and fly over what visually appears to be a flat stationary earth which we are taught from our youth is not true.
If planes can ascend and in any direction, and I obviously did not mean side ways, then they could keep a "straight" course at a constant speed and see the curvature of the the earth drop beneath them.
To say that gravity keeps a plane from this possibility is to say gravity is overcome by flight and not overcome by flight, which is a contradiction.
A plane cannot be moving through the atmosphere and with the atmosphere at the same time either which is what we are lead to believe.
These paradoxes are as irrational as saying God is both timeless and in time at the same time. There seems to be no difference between Calvinism and globe-ism.
--Dave
FYI.. I think there was a lengthy discussion on the Coriolis Effect early in this thread. That's not to say you can't bring it up again because it's a great point. I'm just letting you know.
Silent Hunter
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Dave, you are NOT smarter than a fifth grader.
So you agree with the Bible that says the earth is a sphere suspended in space?
Silent Hunter
Well-known member
It depends on how much one chooses to read into the text. It might as well say, "Turtles all the way down".
Dave, if the earth is a globe, then it doesn't matter how far a plane flies, it will never have the ground "slowly drop beneath it" unless it's gaining altitude, hence my question, can a plane start by flying horizontally, and eventually nose up until it's flying vertically?
Which just reiterates what I just said, that the only way a plane that is flying "level" could see the earth "slowly drop beneath it" is if it gains altitude.
Can they "ascend" towards the ground? :think:
Dave, funnily enough, if you've ever seen a flight instrumentation panel on an airplane during flight, then you might have noticed that the image that shows the attitude of the plane always has the marking line above the horizon line. Why do you think that is, dave, that it's above the horizon, yet it's flying towards the horizon "which rises to eye-level"?
This is a point I've been wanting to address now for a while.
You've always said that the horizon "rises to eye level" because the earth is flat. The one problem with that statement is that it assumes that the viewing device (ie camera, eyeball, etc) is parallel to the ground. I sort of, in an indirect way, touched on this when I brought up my point about fisheye lenses showing more curvature of the horizon when aiming below the horizon than when aiming above, but I never was able to get into it.
Dave, assuming you can get to a VERY flat, VERY level area, I want you to take a camera, put it on a tripod, level it as best as you can, and then rotate the camera, taking pictures every few degrees or so, without adjusting the angle of the camera.
Then look at all of the photos you took. Find the horizon, and measure it's distance from the top and bottom edge of the photo. (You'll need to take very precise measurements, if possible.)
Now average the distances you recorded for both distance to top and distance to bottom of the photos. Which one is larger? or are they the same.
Now repeat this experiment from a much higher altitude, if possible. Remember, you must have the camera as level as possible for this to work.
Which numbers are bigger? Or are the numbers the same?
That's because you're presenting a false dichotomy, "Either the plane is affected by gravity completely, whereby it cannot get off the ground, or there is no gravity to affect the plane."
Dave, how does a plane work? It has wings that provide lift, right? An upward force. How much?
Answer: One square inch of an aircraft's wing can generate 1 pound of lift in level flight. That may not seem like much, but it adds upp.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_(force)
A plane generate more lift (again, upward force) as it moves through the air. As it taxis along the runway, the downward force generated by the wings is not enough to provide lift, ie to get it off the ground. That raises the question... What's keeping it on the ground? Well, gravity is.
Let's take a moment to look at how humans walk before continuing with planes, and we'll stick to the fundamentals, as when you get smaller and smaller, gravity becomes less and less significant and you get into forces other than gravity, which can of worms I'm not interested in opening. So to keep it simple, we'll assume that when you put your foot on the floor, you really are touching it with your foot.
And when you do so, and then stand up, you are pushing against the ground. Gravity holds you there, so you don't push off from the earth, yet if you jump, you will rise up into the air briefly, and then come back to the ground.
What you are saying is that what I just said contradicts. Yet you can jump, and stand, and run, and walk, and many other things and you don't go flying off into space when you do them. Why?
Because gravity is only so strong...
When you jump up in the air, you are exerting downward force, pushing yourself upwards to counteract the force of gravity. The reason you come back down is that Gravity is constantly pulling you down, providing resistance to you moving upwards, just like the wind and friction will slow a wheel down as it rolls freely. They don't stop it right away, they stop it slowly. However, gravity doesn't stop there, it keeps pulling, and pulling and pulling and pulling, until you're back on the ground again, and even then it's still pulling. It "pulls" at a rate of...
... ... ...
You know what, I could go on and on about gravity and never get back to my point on planes, let alone teach you how it works, so I'm going to leave it at that, and just give you this link to read through, so that you can learn how gravity works on your own:
http://www.dummies.com/education/sc...e-the-force-of-gravity-on-the-earths-surface/
Dave, again I ask, if I pull you in one direction, and push you in another, which direction do you move?
1. It's not paradoxical for a plane to move through the sky. To understand the physics behind it however, you'll need to apply yourself a bit more than just saying it's paradoxical.
2. The laws of physics are not irrational.
3. Calvinism has nothing to do with this.
The Bible says that God "hung the earth on nothing."
*He stretches out the north over empty space;He hangs the earth on nothing. - Job 26:7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job26:7&version=NKJV
The Turtle Moves!
Which one?
View attachment 25585
Planes would fly "straight" and see the earth drop beneath it if the earth was a globe.
Level means horizontal, flat, straight--not curved.
The picture explains this perfectly, any attempt to argue otherwise is irrational.
But I understand the problem with being told something all our lives that is called science but is not reality.
--Dave
Dave, I would appreciate it if you would respond to what I post, and not just rehash your original argument. Try again, please.
I responded to your point. Perhaps you should respond to mine now.
There's a disclaimer in the video that I think applies to everything NASA shows us from space, "Artist concept of LRO at the moon".
How do we know they are telling us the truth? What percent of the world's population has to take all this by faith?
99.9%
--Dave
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