The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

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JudgeRightly

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Flat Earth Proof: Moon & Sun Flip, Rotate

"Flat Earth Research: The moon and sun appear to flip at their zenith viewed from the equator but viewed from north of the equator, the sun and moon both rotate. This is proof of a flat, stationary earth with the moon and sun orbiting above."


--Dave

The helio centric model (globe earth orbiting the sun) also has the moon rotating once every ~27 days and the Sun rotating differentially (meaning one region spins faster than another), with a sunspot at the sun's equator rotating once every 24.47 days, but the amount of time it takes increases the farther north a spot is on the sun, approaching about 38 days to rotate around the Sun. This happens because the Sun is not a solid body, but is in fact a ball of plasma and super hot gases.

So no, not proof of a flat earth.
 

DFT_Dave

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The helio centric model (globe earth orbiting the sun) also has the moon rotating once every ~27 days and the Sun rotating differentially (meaning one region spins faster than another), with a sunspot at the sun's equator rotating once every 24.47 days, but the amount of time it takes increases the farther north a spot is on the sun, approaching about 38 days to rotate around the Sun. This happens because the Sun is not a solid body, but is in fact a ball of plasma and super hot gases.

So no, not proof of a flat earth.

The proof is that it's the moon and sun that are moving and the earth is not.

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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The proof is that it's the moon and sun that are moving and the earth is not.

--Dave
Dave, relative to the earth, everything is moving. Relative to an observer outside of Earth, the earth is moving.

Also, no one has claimed that the moon and sun aren't moving. So... Straw man much?

As for the earth not moving, you're on the earth, there's no possible way you could tell unless you had a reference point outside of the earth with which to compare that the earth is moving or not. And you deny that we have been to space, so you've pretty much shot yourself in the foot, there.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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Geocentricity and Joshua 10

Geocentricity and Joshua 10

The proof is that it's the moon and sun that are moving and the earth is not.

--Dave
Well, at least I can get behind the statement about the geocentricity of earth, as it is the only proper explanation of the events described in Joshua 10.

- http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?111518-Moon-Landing-Hoax&p=4381393&viewfull=1#post4381393

- http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?111518-Moon-Landing-Hoax&p=4384754&viewfull=1#post4384754


- http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?111518-Moon-Landing-Hoax&p=4385473&viewfull=1#post4385473

- http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?111518-Moon-Landing-Hoax&p=4387351&viewfull=1#post4387351


;)

AMR
 

JudgeRightly

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I'd like to point out that even normal people (people who believe in a round earth) say the sun rises in the east in the morning and sets in the west each night. Yet we still believe it's not the sun that's literally rising over the earth, but that that's just what it looks like from our perspective, and that the earth is spinning on it's axis, which gives the appearance that the sun rises and sets.
 

JudgeRightly

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I'd like to point out that even normal people (people who believe in a round earth) say the sun rises in the east in the morning and sets in the west each night. Yet we still believe it's not the sun that's literally rising over the earth, but that that's just what it looks like from our perspective, and that the earth is spinning on it's axis, which gives the appearance that the sun rises and sets.
Something else I'd like to point out. Assuming that the earth is round and the heliocentric model is correct, for a moment, which seems more plausible:

The earth stopping it's rotation, giving the appearance that the sun halted it's movement across our sky?

Or having the sun stop moving, meaning that it, along with 8+ other celestial bodies continuing in their orbits around it as if on rails attached to the sun, became locked in a geosynchronous orbit around the earth for two hours?

The question again, which seems more likely?
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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Geocentricity and Joshua 10

Geocentricity and Joshua 10

I'd like to point out that even normal people (people who believe in a round earth) say the sun rises in the east in the morning and sets in the west each night. Yet we still believe it's not the sun that's literally rising over the earth, but that that's just what it looks like from our perspective, and that the earth is spinning on it's axis, which gives the appearance that the sun rises and sets.
It is likely you did not read the content linked above, else you would know your point is discussed.

There is nothing phenomenological nor allegorical in Joshua 10 that warrants your assertions above or what followed, and to do so leads to even more error...as my linked posts above discuss fully.

AMR
 

DFT_Dave

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Dave, relative to the earth, everything is moving. Relative to an observer outside of Earth, the earth is moving.

Also, no one has claimed that the moon and sun aren't moving. So... Straw man much?

As for the earth not moving, you're on the earth, there's no possible way you could tell unless you had a reference point outside of the earth with which to compare that the earth is moving or not. And you deny that we have been to space, so you've pretty much shot yourself in the foot, there.

People have shot themselves in the head by believing we have been to outer space.

High-Altitude Balloon floats 108,000 ft above Grand Canyon and the earth is stationary beneath it.


All high altitude video prove the earth is stationary. Only NASA shows us video that shows a rotating earth but they contradict that in other video.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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Something else I'd like to point out. Assuming that the earth is round and the heliocentric model is correct, for a moment, which seems more plausible:

The earth stopping it's rotation, giving the appearance that the sun halted it's movement across our sky?

Or having the sun stop moving, meaning that it, along with 8+ other celestial bodies continuing in their orbits around it as if on rails attached to the sun, became locked in a geosynchronous orbit around the earth for two hours?

The question again, which seems more likely?

But that's not what scripture says. This is one of many places the critics of a historical Biblical text say God gets it wrong and the heliocentric universe is the proof. And if the Bible is inaccurate about the nature of the universe then how can we trust it for ancient history of supernatural events? Then you, and others, create an irrational paradox that you think solves the problem but have only produced a non literal narrative.

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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But that's not what scripture says. This is one of many places the critics of a historical Biblical text say God gets it wrong and the heliocentric universe is the proof. And if the Bible is inaccurate about the nature of the universe then how can we trust it for ancient history of supernatural events? Then you, and others, create an irrational paradox that you think solves the problem but have only produced a non literal narrative.

--Dave

You are once again presenting a false dichotomy. You're saying that either the Bible is right and affirms your views of a flat earth and does not affirm my views of a round earth, or it's completely wrong, when you should be recognizing that it is possible that you are wrong and the Bible is still correct when it says "the sun stood still over Gibeon." Your interpretation of the Bible is not the only one, nor is it only opposing one other view.

Dave, my assertion is that your interpretation of the Bible is wrong, not that the Bible itself is wrong. I also assert that God doesn't do irrational things, that He is a rational God, hence my poser of, did God simply stop the rotation of the earth and moon or did he cause the sun and all the celestial bodies in our solar system to orbit the earth in geo-sync? (meaning the bodies farthest out from Earth would have to move at incredible speeds to stay in orbit around the Sun (again, assuming the heliocentric model of a round earth is correct for a moment).

*Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel:“Sun, stand still over Gibeon;And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”*So the sun stood still,And the moon stopped,Till the people had revengeUpon their enemies.Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. - Joshua 10:12-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua10:12-13&version=NKJV

The passage says that the Sun stood still over Gibeon and the moon over the Valley of Aijalon. For a "round-earther," the most logical and simplest thing for God to do would be to halt the rotation of the earth and the moon, instead of causing the sun, moon and the rest of the solar system to orbit the earth geo-synchronously, while the rest of the system still orbits the sun.

Ancient astronomers had to deal with a similar problem with the geocentric model, because the orbits would have been so unusual if the sun were to orbit the earth AND have the planets orbit the earth. They couldn't be mapped properly, because using that model, no predictions could be made about where each planet would be at any given time. This is what led to the proposal of the heliocentric model, which, unlike the geocentric model, could actually predict the motion of the planets through our night sky, and even allows us to extrapolate forwards and backwards in time to where the planets should have been.

@AskMrReligion, One problem with you even giving credence to the notion that the sun is what stopped moving above the earth is that it doesn't match physics, ie it's not physically possible. I don't know the numbers, and I wouldn't know where to begin to be able to calculate it out, but It seems to me that in order for the sun to start to orbit the earth geo-synchronously, and not mess up the planets, at the farthest point from earth the planets would have to be traveling FAR faster than is possible to keep the planets in orbit around the sun, let alone the sudden change in velocity (remember, speed in a given direction) would, unless God intervened supernaturally, literally tear the planets apart. Oh, and let's not forget the asteroid belt and all the rings around the planets that God would have to move all at the same time. Sure, God could do it, if he wanted to, but WHY?

Philosophical Question: Throughout the Bible, does God usually get really involved in supernatural events that involve the death of His creation (eg the Flood or this battle or any of the plagues of Egypt)? or does he typically do very little, letting nature do most of the work?

I'd say generally God lets nature do most of the work. So, given that God likes to let His creation do most of the work, Which seems more plausible (and as a reminder, none of this has to do with the flat earth model,:

A) the earth continuing to rotate once per day, but the sun begins to orbit the earth in one location over the earth (geo-sync), and have all the planets and objects in the solar system somehow maintain their orbit around the sun, but from earth's perspective there's chaos in the heavens.

OR

B) God halts the rotation of the earth and orbit of the moon for a few hours, but lets it continue in it's orbit of the sun, then starts rotating it again.
 

DFT_Dave

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That video shows curvature.

At some point you see the circle of earth which is not the same thing as a curved globe. From high altitude the curve would dramatically fall away from in front of you, where as a flat plain would rise up in front of you. The video shows a plain and absolutely a stationary earth.

--Dave


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musterion

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At some point you see the circle of earth which is not the same thing as a curved globe. From high altitude the curve would dramatically fall away from in front of you, where as a flat plain would rise up in front of you. The video shows a plain and absolutely a stationary earth.

--Dave

You already posted a ton of video saying there's NO curvature.

And if his camera was seeing the purported circumference of the earth from only 100k feet up, the flat earth is WAY smaller than you think.
 

JudgeRightly

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You already posted a ton of video saying there's NO curvature.

And if his camera was seeing the purported circumference of the earth from 100k feet up, the flat earth is WAY smaller than you think.
I tried asking Dave about that a while back, because I don't think he understands just HOW BIG the earth is.
[MENTION=4980]DFT_Dave[/MENTION], Question for you:

Why is it that every time someone posts a video from a camera that gets to a very high altitude, the distance from the camera to the horizon the same in 360 degrees? The only way that is possible on a flat earth is if the camera is directly over the center of the circle, like when you look at a plate face on. Yet we see people launching from an average of halfway to the edge (from the center) of the supposed disk of the earth, yet there's no visible difference when the camera faces one way versus another.
 

musterion

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I tried asking Dave about that a while back, because I don't think he understands just HOW BIG the earth is.
@DFT_Dave, Question for you:

Why is it that every time someone posts a video from a camera that gets to a very high altitude, the distance from the camera to the horizon the same in 360 degrees? The only way that is possible on a flat earth is if the camera is directly over the center of the circle, like when you look at a plate face on. Yet we see people launching from an average of halfway to the edge (from the center) of the supposed disk of the earth, yet there's no visible difference when the camera faces one way versus another.

That is a VERY good point. Wherever a camera is shot from, when it gets high enough the horizon is always equidistant, as you say. That would not be possible on a flat Earth. Unless the launchpad was DEAD CENTER of the flat Earth, and the camera remained DEAD CENTER over the flat Earth, the camera will have to be be closer to one edge than the others and that difference would be obvious in the footage.
 
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