The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

[DFT_Dave]

Dave, Australia is not 5500 miles across as it would have to be if the flat earth map was even close to being accurate.

The distortion problems with map projections go away if the Earth is flat!

The "actual size" of continents will not determine if the earth is a globe or flat, but I think it's important to get an accurate understanding of how flat verses globe earth compares. Why say it in words when a pic or video does it so much better?

--Dave

 

[Clete]

They are short and to the point. Video is acceptable evidence for what is a physical visual argument. We are not just dealing with theories here.

Relax, get some pop corn and a soda and enjoy. I watch all posted videos. A photo is worth a thousand words, you've heard that, right?

We all have grown up with all kings of video and visual aids about globe earth and moon landings, so why get all upset about a little flat earth video to compare with???

Your objection is not reasonable.

--Dave

Okay, I'll modify my position. If you want me to watch a video, you have to present in writing at least one of the pertinent arguments that respond to whatever argument I've made. If by doing so, you convince me that the video isn't a waste of time, then I'll watch it.

I don't think you realize how annoying it is to wade through the 99.999% pure B.S. that is the typical video you've posted on this thread. They don't feel short! It's like sitting on hot coals! Seventeen minutes of Hell on Earth. Watching any one of them ought to convince you that the Earth isn't flat just on the basis of the asinine thought processes the position's adherents go through trying to convince you otherwise. Talk about not reasonable!

 

[Clete]

The "actual size" of continents will not determine if the earth is a globe or flat, but I think it's important to get an accurate understanding of how flat verses globe earth compares. Why say it in words when a pic or video does it so much better?

--Dave

It totally will determine it Dave. Think it through...

If the latitude lines remain, as is the case on a disc shaped projection of the Earth then the North-South distances will remain accurate (i.e. consistent with distances measured in reality) but distances measured in any other direction will become further and further out of sync with reality the further from the center of the map you get.

There is no better demonstration of this than the continent of Australia. The distances predicted by the Flat-Earth map from North coast to South coast is consistant with not only that of Globe-Earth map but also the distances measured in reality. But the distance from the East coast to the West coast is predicted to be more than twice as far on the Flat-Earth model, while the Globe-Earth model is, once again consistent with the distances traveled on the actual ground.

And you don't have to go all the way to Australia! The distances will get further and further from reality on a flat earth disc map the further you get from the pole. So distances at 30° North will be off more than those at 50° North, right here in North America. I wonder why no flat-earther has ever bothered to get in his car and measure the distances?

 

[DFT_Dave]

Okay, I'll modify my position. If you want me to watch a video, you have to present in writing at least one of the pertinent arguments that respond to whatever argument I've made. If by doing so, you convince me that the video isn't a waste of time, then I'll watch it.

I don't think you realize how annoying it is to wade through the 99.999% pure B.S. that is the typical video you've posted on this thread. They don't feel short! It's like sitting on hot coals! Seventeen minutes of Hell on Earth. Watching any one of them ought to convince you that the Earth isn't flat just on the basis of the asinine thought processes the position's adherents go through trying to convince you otherwise. Talk about not reasonable!

But this is not B.S. to some one else. I think evolution is B.S. and I hated having to study so much of it just like you and others feel about this, but how else do we determine what is or is not true and share that with others. Try studying Hinduism, it's a joke, but I do it to help others see what is true.

There is in my honest opinion some very reasonable objects to a globe model and moon landings, and an accurate understanding of Biblical cosmology is important to me, so I want to make sure I have it right.

I plan to be back in the NYC parks this spring to do evangelism and cosmology will be a subject to deal with. Unlike when I did this years ago I will be facing a more politically correct crowd than before. I want very much not to be an agitator to an already very agitated crowd. I hope being older, wiser, and gentler will be helpful. I will face more heat there, in my face, than what I face here in print, but here there are nasty things written that I will not hear in public, thank God.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

It totally will determine it Dave. Think it through...

If the latitude lines remain, as is the case on a disc shaped projection of the Earth then the North-South distances will remain accurate (i.e. consistent with distances measured in reality) but distances measured in any other direction will become further and further out of sync with reality the further from the center of the map you get.

There is no better demonstration of this than the continent of Australia. The distances predicted by the Flat-Earth map from North coast to South coast is consistant with not only that of Globe-Earth map but also the distances measured in reality. But the distance from the East coast to the West coast is predicted to be more than twice as far on the Flat-Earth model, while the Globe-Earth model is, once again consistent with the distances traveled on the actual ground.

And you don't have to go all the way to Australia! The distances will get further and further from reality on a flat earth disc map the further you get from the pole. So distances at 30° North will be off more than those at 50° North, right here in North America. I wonder why no flat-earther has ever bothered to get in his car and measure the distances?

I totally agree with you about the problems, and I take this to be something else I have examine more carefully, and I don't have an answer at this time.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

I hope every one will have a good day today, I'm off to visit my kids and grand kids in NJ.

I hope some of you will accept my Brenda Lee Apology and enjoy the West Wing Map clip.

--Dave

 

[CabinetMaker]

The new Nikon P900 is one of the most powerful video cameras for consumers on the market, and not badly priced. It has 83x optical zoom, Galileo's telescope was 14x, I think he would have loved to have had the P900. I will be buying or borrowing a telescope and do some basic tests for curvature and perspective here in Brooklyn when it warms up.

If you did not see the video of the stars I posted then you did not see the big difference between what NASA is showing us and what these cameras are showing us. As pictures the stars seem blurred to you because there is alot of movement of the light coming from the stars that surprises every one.

--Dave

NASA and most observatories have far more powerful optics than the Nikon .

The video you posted does nothing to explain what a star is and why we see its light.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

If you took the time to see some of the video you would know that many, not all, of what you call, "conspiracy theorists" are guys like me and you

--Dave

Dave, I watched some of these videos. These may be guys like you.... but they are NOT guys like me. This stuff is ludicrous! It's so ridiculous I can't even begin to imagine what has caused you to stray so far off.

Think about it Dave....

In your "time lapse" Youtube clip...

Based on that video as the sun is rising it would "rise" (or come into view) from almost pure due north of me (see my attachment). And as the sun "sets" in your model it would again head due north of my location here in Colorado. The sun does not do that. It doesn't happen that way. You can see this yourself by looking outside. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. It never heads north as in this video demonstration you are referencing. Dave if you can't reject this clear flaw in this theory I am afraid for your intellectual honesty and or sanity.

 

[CabinetMaker]

It's not that hard a secret to keep when for 99.99% of our history no had gotten high enough to see it is actually flat (Piccard in 1930), and when only 0.0001% of the people who ever exited have supposedly seen a spinning globe from space.

Very few people go to Antarctica because...so it's not hard to spot any one trying.

No one believes there is an 100% accurate map of the earth that exists.

Maps That Prove You Don't Really Know Earth

--Dave

All this video proves is that most people do not know how to read a map. The map in the video is worthless because it does not include the scale. That map has a scale that adjusts for the curvature of the Earth. Your video is somewhat accurate, but misleading in its presentation.

 

[DFT_Dave]

The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

Dave, I watched some of these videos. These may be guys like you.... but they are NOT guys like me. This stuff is ludicrous! It's so ridiculous I can't even begin to imagine what has caused you to stray so far off.

Think about it Dave....

In your "time lapse" Youtube clip...

Based on that video as the sun is rising it would "rise" (or come into view) from almost pure due north of me (see my attachment). And as the sun "sets" in your model it would again head due north of my location here in Colorado. The sun does not do that. It doesn't happen that way. You can see this yourself by looking outside. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. It never heads north as in this video demonstration you are referencing. Dave if you can't reject this clear flaw in this theory I am afraid for your intellectual honesty and or sanity.

I have not accepted or rejected anything yet, accept spacetime


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I have not accepted or rejected anything yet, accept spacetime

You say that... but you interact in a way that seems rigid for the flat earth view.

I know you are taking the day off so please answer later.

The fact that the sun does not rise and set to the north completely falsifies the flat earth theory. Agree or disagree?

I have created a graphic that depicts the path of the sun from our vantage point based on the info in the time lapse video you have posted. If the earth was flat and the sun traveled in a circle above the flat earth this is what we would see....

 

[Clete]

But this is not B.S. to some one else. I think evolution is B.S. and I hated having to study so much of it just like you and others feel about this, but how else do we determine what is or is not true and share that with others. Try studying Hinduism, it's a joke, but I do it to help others see what is true.

I don't mind study and I've watched way more video on flat earther stuff than I ever would have expected. One has his limits, however.

There is in my honest opinion some very reasonable objects to a globe model and moon landings, and an accurate understanding of Biblical cosmology is important to me, so I want to make sure I have it right.

So voice the objections and let's discuss it. REASONABLE objections to the globe earth model are not the same as affirmative arguments for a flat earth that most home-schooled 8th graders could refute.

I plan to be back in the NYC parks this spring to do evangelism and cosmology will be a subject to deal with. Unlike when I did this years ago I will be facing a more politically correct crowd than before. I want very much not to be an agitator to an already very agitated crowd. I hope being older, wiser, and gentler will be helpful. I will face more heat there, in my face, than what I face here in print, but here there are nasty things written that I will not hear in public, thank God.

--Dave

Have you ever come across anyone who rejected the bible on the basis of a flat vs. round Earth? I can't imagine that you have or ever will but I can't blame you for wanting to be prepared for anything.

Clete

 

[DFT_Dave]

NASA and most observatories have far more powerful optics than the Nikon .

The video you posted does nothing to explain what a star is and why we see its light.

The point is the videos show stares to be very different than what NASA is showing us.

--Dave

 

[Nathon Detroit]

The point is the videos show stares to be very different than what NASA is showing us.

--Dave

Dave have you ever considered that the folks who are sharing these photos may have selected images that they believe further the conspiracy or even possibly edited some photos to help further spread the conspiracy?

You have claimed NASA and the rest of the world for generation after generation are the ones doctoring photos. Isn't it a tad more likely that the conspiracy folks are the ones selecting just the right angles or editing the photos??

NASA and the entire world all in on it together?? Or a few tin-foil wearing folks with a computer, and an internet connection? Seriously... what's more likely?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

So voice the objections and let's discuss it. REASONABLE objections to the globe earth model are not the same as affirmative arguments for a flat earth that most home-schooled 8th graders could refute.

That is my biggest frustration with Dave and this thread.

As evidenced by these two images I made that clearly debunk the flat earth position. I don't consider these to higher than 6th grade understanding.

 

[DFT_Dave]

Dave, I watched some of these videos. These may be guys like you.... but they are NOT guys like me. This stuff is ludicrous! It's so ridiculous I can't even begin to imagine what has caused you to stray so far off.

Think about it Dave....

In your "time lapse" Youtube clip...

Based on that video as the sun is rising it would "rise" (or come into view) from almost pure due north of me (see my attachment). And as the sun "sets" in your model it would again head due north of my location here in Colorado. The sun does not do that. It doesn't happen that way. You can see this yourself by looking outside. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. It never heads north as in this video demonstration you are referencing. Dave if you can't reject this clear flaw in this theory I am afraid for your intellectual honesty and or sanity.

Once I concede any one point this debate is over. Did that cross your mind? And because the astronomy aspect of this topic is what I least understand about it I still want to continue to examine the evidence and arguments you all are providing. I have great respect for all of you. I want to make sure I have looked at this from every possible angle. And I want every argument made by flat earth to see a good counter argument.

I doubt there is a "course" on flat earth at any university so this is the next best thing. I just want to throw up every time I hear that you, or any one else want to lock up, burn at the stake, or throw into an insane asylum any one who thinks flat earth is a possible, Biblical cosmology. I expect this kind of talk from atheists but not from Christians.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

All this video proves is that most people do not know how to read a map. The map in the video is worthless because it does not include the scale. That map has a scale that adjusts for the curvature of the Earth. Your video is somewhat accurate, but misleading in its presentation.

The video shows that there is no perfect map for flat or globe earth. That's the only point.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

You say that... but you interact in a way that seems rigid for the flat earth view.

I know you are taking the day off so please answer later.

The fact that the sun does not rise and set to the north completely falsifies the flat earth theory. Agree or disagree?

I have created a graphic that depicts the path of the sun from our vantage point based on the info in the time lapse video you have posted. If the earth was flat and the sun traveled in a circle above the flat earth this is what we would see....

As I said, if I concede any one point at this time this debate is over. I am examining all the good stuff you post, but I will render my conclusions when I think I have understood this well enough. Thanks for the graph, very helpful.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

I don't mind study and I've watched way more video on flat earther stuff than I ever would have expected. One has his limits, however.

So voice the objections and let's discuss it. REASONABLE objections to the globe earth model are not the same as affirmative arguments for a flat earth that most home-schooled 8th graders could refute.

Have you ever come across anyone who rejected the bible on the basis of a flat vs. round Earth? I can't imagine that you have or ever will but I can't blame you for wanting to be prepared for anything.

Clete

I've be asked if I think the earth is flat before, so I'm sure it will happen again. And when I have said no they say well the Bible says it is. I have always used the usual arguments that we all know, but!!!

I strongly believe in having integrity, if you try to con them in the park they see right through you very quickly. You have to be very sure of your positions and very loving when you speak. I've never tried to answer every question but I want to be able to answer the important ones.

I was, at the start, preparing to answer questions about space time and multiverses. Face it, our Copernican model has become a space time block with gazillions other evolving universes. Where do you put God into that mess? Cosmology today is used to deny God's existence.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Dave have you ever considered that the folks who are sharing these photos may have selected images that they believe further the conspiracy or even possibly edited some photos to help further spread the conspiracy?

You have claimed NASA and the rest of the world for generation after generation are the ones doctoring photos. Isn't it a tad more likely that the conspiracy folks are the ones selecting just the right angles or editing the photos??

NASA and the entire world all in on it together?? Or a few tin-foil wearing folks with a computer, and an internet connection? Seriously... what's more likely?

In the end, the arguments are all that matter, not who (or how many) make it, or why they are doing it. If this were not so, at least in my mind, and it's the other way around, then I'm not going to the park, or go on line, because "who am I", "why am I here?" I become just a nobody with just an opinion.

Only NASA could be creating a conspiracy, some on the other side would be as you suggest just idiots, most however are likely sincerely wanting to know why the earth they live on that seems flat and stationary is just the opposite.

--Dave