ECT The Cross Has Made You Flawless
- Thread starter Tambora
- Start date
can you hear me singin' ? -
Amen. sometimes i get so involved in my own problems and past that i briefly lose focus of that. it's great to remind ourselves and everyone else 50 times a day, minimum
Cross Reference
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Now, how should we then live?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Even those to whom the book of Hebrews was addressed were also flawless:
"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10,14).
These members of the Body of Christ as well all the other members have been "perfected forever" by the blood of the Lamb, the Lord Jesus Christ.
That's right. You don't need a mommy makeover :freak: on the outside. You need a mommy makeover on the inside (Mt 15:19, Jas 4:9). :straight:
"All sin is an inside job." ~ Darrel Ferguson
"All sin is an inside job." ~ Darrel Ferguson
4 Hugs a Day ~ Charlotte Diamond
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Interplanner
Well-known member
We are simul iustus et peccator. we are righteous and sinful at the same time. The righteousness is credited to us in Christ. There is some inner change but it is not the attention of the apostles.
flawless jerry, flawless ! ! perfect. perfectamundo
And why do you think the second one matters? Not saying it does or doesn't, but it is strange you would have them together. The carnal mind has its mind on the performance of the flesh.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
revpete
New member
The second one matters, not to God because of the imputed righteousness of Christ but because of our Christian testimony before man. As Paul says, we are living epistles known and read of all men. You could say that some will never read the gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. The only gospel they will ever read is the gospel according to you!
Pete
Interplanner
Well-known member
Sorry, it's not. The central document of the NT is Romans about justification by faith. Justification is not an "inner" experience. Justification (as you may be able to tell just from the word itself) has to do with the day of God's judgement and with 'clearing' the individual believer for that. This does not and cannot be an inner experience. It is rather about what God the judge decides and declares.
"He to whom God wishes to speak, whether in anger or in love, cannot cease to exist."--Luther
Justification deals with the debt of sin; it does not deal with the stain or ongoing power. This is why Romans, Galatians, Colossians, Phillippians and several parables (the unforgiving manager; the disreputable woman at dinner) deal with debt. They do this by saying Christ's righteousness is credited/imputed/transferred to us. This does not happen "within" you; it happens in God's account or how he looks upon you. Of course, it changes your emotions enormously as an effect.
If the Gospel was an inner experience, there would be no need for the historic events of Christ. I had a friend in Bible college (no less) realize that he was so totally inward that he no longer believed there was any reason why Christ needed to come; it had no connection to anything in his mind and he gave up on it. God worked directly inside him; no need for the nonsense of the cross and the gore and blood and so forth.
There are two parts of salvation and they need proper relating:
1, Justification which God has done for us in Christ
2, Inner change which God does in us through the Spirit
#2 is not the Gospel. It cannot justify a person from their sins. It is a side effect of #1. The more excited you are about #1 the more motivated you are to 'work out your salvation in respect and trembling.' One is cause; the other is effect. We must not confuse cause and effect.
Interplanner
Well-known member
You can claim that your account is flawless; debt is erased. You may never claim victory over sin, or the end of sin, or perfectionism. When Hebrews is speaking of 'being made perfect,' it does throw us a twist, because it sounds like our experience is perfect. Yet, read the letter for yourself. Most of it is about tangling with really serious sin--like re-crucifying Christ...
Cross Reference
New member
So then, by what testimony to persuade men to Christ should the Christian use if not the life of Christ within him? And if he does not pursue God to know Him then is it not by his own flesh he makes the effort, if he even makes it all?
Interplanner
Well-known member
CrossR:
Even faith is a gift from God, Eph 2. This mysterious passage means that our only task is to declare the Gospel that God was in Christ as an atonement for our sins, and that we can be justified from our debt of sin through Him.
Those God wants to call will respond and embrace this. It is not our job to try to make others do so.
Even faith is a gift from God, Eph 2. This mysterious passage means that our only task is to declare the Gospel that God was in Christ as an atonement for our sins, and that we can be justified from our debt of sin through Him.
Those God wants to call will respond and embrace this. It is not our job to try to make others do so.
Cross Reference
New member
The slightest sin is serious. Why? Because sin is as leprosy.
Though they be as "scarlet" and if unchecked and unforgiven, they will become "white as snow".
The Christian's responsibility:
". . . . . sin [always] lies at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him." Genesis 4:7 (KJV)
Cross Reference
New member
That is nonsense.
In yellow:
Then it is not of Abraham's faith, who is the father of faith for those who do, that we come to salvation.
Interplanner
Well-known member
So you've never heard that faith itself is a gift from God? That doctrine seals the fact that we are saved by grace:
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works..."
Check any grammar you want or any commentary, and they will show that 'pistis' (faith) is the anchor for "this".
It is not a question of whether it is by faith; but what faith is.
This is why there is no automatic response to the message. The Spirit works where it wants to; the "wind blows where it wills." Our task is simply to make sure the message is correct and is about God's work in Christ for our atonement and justification.
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works..."
Check any grammar you want or any commentary, and they will show that 'pistis' (faith) is the anchor for "this".
It is not a question of whether it is by faith; but what faith is.
This is why there is no automatic response to the message. The Spirit works where it wants to; the "wind blows where it wills." Our task is simply to make sure the message is correct and is about God's work in Christ for our atonement and justification.