The Christian Life

[God's Truth]

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. - Romans 4:1-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans4:1-4&version=NKJV

In the verse you provided, Jesus is speaking to His disciples about the end of the Great Tribulation (aka the Time of Jacob's (aka Israel's) Troubles), how those who kept the law will be rewarded.

"He's not talking about the Great Tribulation though!" Oh really? Read the next verse.

Read that scripture better, it is about Abraham before and after CIRCUMCISION.

 

[JudgeRightly]

When you debate someone, you should remember what they say. I TOLD YOU MANY times that the 'not of yourselves' is about not being able to boast in you circumcising yourself, washing yourself, bringing animals!

I don't remember that. By the way, did you notice the semicolon and where it's at?

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians2:8-9&version=NKJV

It's two conjoined sentences.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that [your salvation] not of yourselves."

"It is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

All the scriptures that tell us to have faith---THEY DO NOT nullify the scriptures that say obey.

Where have I ever said that they do? You're right. None of scripture has been nullified. . .

Because the scriptures that say "faith and works" are for ISRAEL, NOT the Body of Christ.

Because the scriptures that say "faith and no works" are for the Body of Christ, NOT ISRAEL.

You found a denomination that found a way to get rid of obedience and take away the power of God.

Again, where have I ever said that obedience to God is wrong?

Again, and again, and again, I have told you that it is about the ceremonial works that we no long have to do.

What do you not get that if you keep one law, you MUST keep them all, ceremonial or not.

Paul stressed this greatly.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. - Galatians 5:1-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians5:1-6&version=NKJV

If you put yourself under the law, Christ will profit you nothing.

If you attempt to be justified under the law, you estrange yourself from Christ.

We are made righteous by faith, and faith through love.

WHY do you NEVER address what I say?

Why?

Why don't you?

You are so entrapped by the devil you cannot even debate because you have no sword whatsoever.

You have a dull little pocket knife with a broken tip.

Belittling me doesn't make your argument any better, GT. You should stop now.

You are trying to limit, and destroy Jesus' words!

No, I am not. Please stop accusing me of such.

Because you say it was not to us

Correct. What Jesus said during His earthly ministry was to the Nation of Israel.

and we do not have to do what Jesus says.

If Jesus told me right now to do something, I would do it.

But as for what was said during His earthly ministry, it would be wrong for me (and you too, GT) to obey his commandments located there in the four Gospels.

That is so confusing and wrong. Just listen to yourself.

You say true salvation is by grace but we are rewarded according to our works, are YOU KIDDING? The REWARD IS ETERNAL LIFE.

If you do not get rewarded, you do NOT get eternal life!

So you work for salvation? Poor GT, trying to work her way to heaven instead of simply believing.

Read that scripture better, it is about Abraham before and after CIRCUMCISION.

It's actually not. It has nothing to do with circumcision.

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. - Romans 4:1-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans4:1-4&version=NKJV

There's a footnote in verse 3 that references Genesis 15 (verse 6), TWO WHOLE CHAPTERS before God told Abraham to be circumcised. Abram had faith first. That was the first covenant God made with him. The second covenant (the Covenant of Law/Circumcision) is the covenant that Israel was under from Abraham to Jesus, who fulfilled the Law.

GT, are you a Jew (born or proselyte)? or are you a Gentile?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Bump for GT.

 

[God's Truth]

I don't remember that.

It is because you do not pay attention.

By the way, did you notice the semicolon and where it's at?

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NKJV

AGAIN: NOT of yourself and a gift is about you NOT having to do works at cleaning your sinful self.

It's two conjoined sentences.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that [your salvation] not of yourselves."

The people USED TO have to do the purification/ceremonial works to clean THEMSELVES/YOURSELVES.

"It is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

It is a GIFT from God meaning God does the cleaning for us.

HOWEVER, He does NOT just give the gift to ANYONE.

He gives the gift of cleaning and reconciliation to THOSE HE CHOOSES to give it, and He chooses those whose hearts are made right by obeying the way.

Where have I ever said that they do? You're right. None of scripture has been nullified. . .

Because the scriptures that say "faith and works" are for ISRAEL, NOT the Body of Christ.

Because the scriptures that say "faith and no works" are for the Body of Christ, NOT ISRAEL.

You just NULLIFIED the obey scriptures by saying that!

You also do not recognize all the scriptures from PAUL that tells us what to do for obeying purposes.

Again, where have I ever said that obedience to God is wrong?

Are you blind? You just said it; you just said all those things Jesus says are not for us.

What do you not get that if you keep one law, you MUST keep them all, ceremonial or not.

Jesus fulfilled the purification part. You have no understanding because Satan snatched you up and you liked it, imho.

Paul stressed this greatly.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. - Galatians 5:1-6http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...6&version=NKJV

That is about not having to abstain from certain meat and from certain people.

Paul is NOT saying we can do any sin.

You are brain washed, which is not good in any sense of the word.

If you put yourself under the law, Christ will profit you nothing.

That is ignorance. Open your eyes and show where I tell anyone to get circumcised.

Circumcision was the sign of all the purification works.

If you attempt to be justified under the law, you estrange yourself from Christ.

We are made righteous by faith, and faith through love.

Love your neighbor is the law of the NEW COVENANT and OLD.

Tell me how you can love your neighbor by not obeying some of the SAME THINGS that the old law says?

If Jesus told me right now to do something, I would do it.

Jesus tells you what to do RIGHT NOW, but you say no, it is not to me.

But as for what was said during His earthly ministry, it would be wrong for me (and you too, GT) to obey his commandments located there in the four Gospels.

Paul preached the same thing you man of a not right heart.

So you work for salvation? Poor GT, trying to work her way to heaven instead of simply believing.

It is dead. You have been told by the apostles that what you preach is death.

It's actually not. It has nothing to do with circumcision.

The scripture says PLAINLY if it were before or after CIRCUMCSION.

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. - Romans 4:1-4http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV

Before are after CIRCUMCISION. Look it up false ensnared person who is in the darkness of the devil.

 

[Robert Pate]

It is because you do not pay attention.



AGAIN: NOT of yourself and a gift is about you NOT having to do works at cleaning your sinful self.



The people USED TO have to do the purification/ceremonial works to clean THEMSELVES/YOURSELVES.



It is a GIFT from God meaning God does the cleaning for us.

HOWEVER, He does NOT just give the gift to ANYONE.

He gives the gift of cleaning and reconciliation to THOSE HE CHOOSES to give it, and He chooses those whose hearts are made right by obeying the way.



You just NULLIFIED the obey scriptures by saying that!

You also do not recognize all the scriptures from PAUL that tells us what to do for obeying purposes.


Are you blind? You just said it; you just said all those things Jesus says are not for us.


Jesus fulfilled the purification part. You have no understanding because Satan snatched you up and you liked it, imho.


That is about not having to abstain from certain meat and from certain people.

Paul is NOT saying we can do any sin.

You are brain washed, which is not good in any sense of the word.



That is ignorance. Open your eyes and show where I tell anyone to get circumcised.

Circumcision was the sign of all the purification works.



Love your neighbor is the law of the NEW COVENANT and OLD.

Tell me how you can love your neighbor by not obeying some of the SAME THINGS that the old law says?


Jesus tells you what to do RIGHT NOW, but you say no, it is not to me.


Paul preached the same thing you man of a not right heart.

It is dead. You have been told by the apostles that what you preach is death.



The scripture says PLAINLY if it were before or after CIRCUMCSION.


Before are after CIRCUMCISION. Look it up false ensnared person who is in the darkness of the devil.

What is that terrible stench? It smells like rotten eggs.

That is GT's righteousness, Isaiah 64:6.

 

[God's Truth]

What is that terrible stench? It smells like rotten eggs.

That is GT's righteousness, Isaiah 64:6.

You cannot retain truth, for I explained the dirty rags scripture to you many times before.

You were taught to misunderstand the filthy rag scripture.

How do you EVER get that obeying God is as a filthy rag?!

The Jews who had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering BLOOD, God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins; that made the blood offering as a menstrual bloody rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.


Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.


Our righteous act of FAITH in Jesus is a filthy rag if we do not OBEY HIM.

 

[God's Truth]

Just focus on what just happened in this thread, RP just told me that it is a filthy rag to obey the words of God.

What a dangerous job he has for himself.

 

[Robert Pate]

You cannot retain truth, for I explained the dirty rags scripture to you many times before.

You were taught to misunderstand the filthy rag scripture.

How do you EVER get that obeying God is as a filthy rag?!

The Jews who had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering BLOOD, God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins; that made the blood offering as a menstrual bloody rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.


Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.


Our righteous act of FAITH in Jesus is a filthy rag if we do not OBEY HIM.

You are a first class Pharisee. You think that righteousness comes by the law. Paul said that righteousness comes by faith, Romans 5:1. In the New Testament faith, not works or obedience counts for righteousness, but you will have to find that out in the judgment.

 

[God's Truth]

You are a first class Pharisee. You think that righteousness comes by the law. Paul said that righteousness comes by faith, Romans 5:1. In the New Testament faith, not works or obedience counts for righteousness, but you will have to find that out in the judgment.

Blah, blah, blah. You keep regurgitating the same thing repeatedly.

What don't you get that Jesus came and taught a new law, a new covenant?

What don't you get that the Pharisees never obeyed even the old law, just the ceremonial works?

You are lost in your own little world of itchy ear favorite teachers doctrines from demons.

 

[Robert Pate]

Blah, blah, blah. You keep regurgitating the same thing repeatedly.

What don't you get that Jesus came and taught a new law, a new covenant?

What don't you get that the Pharisees never obeyed even the old law, just the ceremonial works?

You are lost in your own little world of itchy ear favorite teachers doctrines from demons.

The Pharisees were professional religionist. They even tithed down to the mint in their gardens.

Jesus said that if your righteousness does not exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees you will perish.

We are righteous only "In Christ" Christ is our righteousness, but you will have to learn that in the judgment.

 

[jamie]

In the New Testament faith, not works or obedience counts for righteousness

As a human, Jesus was the epitome of faith. Did his faith abolish the law or establish the law?

 

[Robert Pate]

As a human, Jesus was the epitome of faith. Did his faith abolish the law or establish the law?

Jesus is the fulfillment of the law. All of the demands of the law were fulfilled by the doing and the dying of Jesus. Having fulfilled the law he abolished it for Christians, Ephesians 2:6.

 

[jamie]

Jesus is the fulfillment of the law. All of the demands of the law were fulfilled by the doing and the dying of Jesus. Having fulfilled the law he abolished it for Christians, Ephesians 2:6.

The law of the Spirit came from the Spirit. Do you reject the Spirit?

 

[Robert Pate]

The law of the Spirit came from the Spirit. Do you reject the Spirit?

The Spirit is not something that can be accepted or rejected. The Holy Spirit is granted to those that believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

 

[God's Truth]

The Spirit is not something that can be accepted or rejected. The Holy Spirit is granted to those that believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

You really shouldn't try to be a teacher.

Acts 7:51 You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

 

[God's Truth]

The Pharisees were professional religionist. They even tithed down to the mint in their gardens.

Jesus said that if your righteousness does not exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees you will perish.

We are righteous only "In Christ" Christ is our righteousness, but you will have to learn that in the judgment.

You don't believe Jesus when he says our righteousness must surpass that of the Pharisees.

You think Jesus came so that you only have to say you believe in him and then when you lie and sin you get off for it.

 

[jamie]

The Spirit is not something that can be accepted or rejected.

By rejecting the Spirit's law you are rejecting the Spirit's love.

Jesus equated love of God and love of mankind with the Spirit's law.

"Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
(Matthew 22:37-40)

In speaking against the Spirit's law you are speaking against the Spirit's love.

So those two commandments tell us how to love God and humans.

 

[Robert Pate]

By rejecting the Spirit's law you are rejecting the Spirit's love.

Jesus equated love of God and love of mankind with the Spirit's law.

"Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
(Matthew 22:37-40)

In speaking against the Spirit's law you are speaking against the Spirit's love.

So those two commandments tell us how to love God and humans.

It appears that you are trying to be justified by the law. The law will not justify. The law will damn you to hell. If you have to be told to love God, you don't.

 

[jamie]

It appears that you are trying to be justified by the law.

Paul taught that people were not rendered innocent by the Mosaic law, but that he was freed from the law of sin and death by the Spirit's law.

Why don't you teach the Spirit's law?

 

[Robert Pate]

Paul taught that people were not rendered innocent by the Mosaic law, but that he was freed from the law of sin and death by the Spirit's law.

Why don't you teach the Spirit's law?

I do. The law of the Spirit is the Gospel.