ECT the charade about 'saved' in Rom 11

I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Nowhere in Romans does saved mean a restoration of Israel's theocracy. It is instead a way of grouping the 3 aspects of redemption together: justification, sanctification, glorification. In 11 itself, Paul is urging Jews to be at work in God's mission to the nations, and not to rely on one's race or ethnicity. And then as part of quoting Isaiah in these verses, the word 'saved' is said to be the taking away of sins, the same expression used by John the baptist. And after the expression 'all Israel saved' he explains that God no longer does special treatment with any ethne; being stuck in sin or gaining mercy is now in relation to the Gospel.

But because 2P2P in D'ism keeps forcing itself on the Bible, all of a sudden, 'saved' means a restoration of Israel to D'ists.

There are other things that qualify 'all' and 'Israel' but enough has been shown here to know that this is a 'charade' of the word saved to try to keep 2P2P alive.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
What does saved mean in Romans?

Next: what does it mean in that section?

Next: what does it mean in the nearby verses?
 
D

Danoh

New member
Interplanner said:
What does saved mean in Romans?

Next: what does it mean in that section?

Next: what does it mean in the nearby verses?
Click to expand...

Prove what each means.

Through the Scripture; you books based incompetent.

All you are doing is asserting that because you assert a thing is as you assert it is; it is so.

This is why the Dispys on here do not respect anything you say.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
I've done that 10x. I've written it out. No one pays attention, because people only pay attention to what they want to. D'ist's want 2P2P (now 2G2P2P) to be true; I don't know why. So they only 'hear' that voice and pay attention to their formulas.

Of all the people here who ask for brand-new write-ups of things I have done 100x, usually in several threads, D'ists are the least attentive, worst recalling.
 
D

Danoh

New member
Interplanner said:
I've done that 10x. I've written it out. No one pays attention, because people only pay attention to what they want to. D'ist's want 2P2P (now 2G2P2P) to be true; I don't know why. So they only 'hear' that voice and pay attention to their formulas.

Of all the people here who ask for brand-new write-ups of things I have done 100x, usually in several threads, D'ists are the least attentive, worst recalling.
Click to expand...

Post YOUR assertions once, or ten thousand times, it matters not.

All you ever do is post YOUR assertions.

You NEVER prove them through SCRIPTURE.

Are you actually that obtuse that you expect this David Koresh/Jim Jones "because I say so" assertions method of yours to be taken at your fool word just because you say so you would be Pope of TOL?

YOU are...a books based...fraud.

YOU are the issue...at least in your own mind...

Here, I'll make this simple for you before all TOL to witness, you simpleton.

Prove THROUGH Scripture that ACTUALLY says in the passages THEMSELVES what you assert.

WITHOUT a need on YOUR part to assert your endless prattle "well, see, this here is referring to what I say it is referring to, therefore that is what it is saying, because I, Interplanner say so."

You can't.

You don't have that kind of familiarity with the Scripture.

You are the product of the natural man's wisdom of this world: a mix of empiricism further convoluted through rationalism, or the books based parroting of book writers...your mess results in.

You are...one more parrot in a long line of parrots all the way back to the stone age of your mess.

There is your challenge, big mouth of hot air.

Put up or shut.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
You're a really bad loser. The passages are all read in their normal sense. 2P2P is simply as foreign to the Bible as uniformitarianism, yet you keep trying to force it in.

The open-ended questions are still in your court: what is 'saved' in Romans?

And 'Would D'ists have attended the 'triumphal entry' parade?'
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
I'm sorry to find that you have wasted so much time on so many poor, amateur writers, and that they have so much control over you that you are a miserable person about it. I don't wish that on anyone.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Interplanner said:
I'm sorry to find that you have wasted so much time on so many poor, amateur writers, and that they have so much control over you that you are a miserable person about it. I don't wish that on anyone.
Click to expand...

Danoh can not find any comfort here on this board, and he gives none either.

It is most depressing for him.

LA
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Nowhere in Romans does saved mean a restoration of Israel's theocracy. It is instead a way of grouping the 3 aspects of redemption together: justification, sanctification, glorification. In 11 itself, Paul is urging Jews to be at work in God's mission to the nations, and not to rely on one's race or ethnicity. And then as part of quoting Isaiah in these verses, the word 'saved' is said to be the taking away of sins, the same expression used by John the baptist. And after the expression 'all Israel saved' he explains that God no longer does special treatment with any ethne; being stuck in sin or gaining mercy is now in relation to the Gospel.

But because 2P2P in D'ism keeps forcing itself on the Bible, all of a sudden, 'saved' means a restoration of Israel to D'ists.

There are other things that qualify 'all' and 'Israel' but enough has been shown here to know that this is a 'charade' of the word saved to try to keep 2P2P alive.
Click to expand...


Hi and you can never explain DISPENSATIONALISM , because it is in the bible , Rom 15:25 and 26 an many more !!

In Rom 11:26 ALL Israel SHALL BE SAVED !!
Is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , WHY ?

So what does SAVED / SOZO mean here ?

#1 to save
#2 , keep saved

#3 , TO Rescue

#4 make whole

#5 Heal

But also Negatively

#1, From penalties or Judgments

#2 , Keek from Evil

Since words mean something what does SAVED mean to you in Rom 11L26 ?

dan p
 
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I

Interplanner

Well-known member
DAN P said:
Hi and you can never explain DISPENSATIONALISM , because it is in the biblr , Rom 15:25 and 26 an many more !!

In Rom 11:26 ALL Israel SHALL BE SAVED !!
Is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , WHY ?

So what does SAVED / SOZO mean here ?

#1 to save
#2 , keep saved

#3 , TO Rescue

#4 make whole

#5 Heal

But also Negatively

#1, From penalties or Judgments

#2 , Keek from Evil

Since words mean something what does SAVED mean to you in Rom 11L26 ?

dan p
Click to expand...



Saved in romans means justification from the debt of sin, some personal transformation and ultimate glorification. The Israel he's referring to will have those. Nothing about a kingdom or theocracy in the land. it never means that in Romans.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Saved in romans means justification from the debt of sin, some personal transformation and ultimate glorification. The Israel he's referring to will have those. Nothing about a kingdom or theocracy in the land. it never means that in Romans.
Click to expand...


Hi and where does it say SAVED/SOZO means justification , where did I miss it ??

dan p
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Prob the most important is 5:8 because justification and saved are related. Saved is the whole package of justification, transformation now and glorification on the final day. But you might not know this from this particular verse: it's the protective passage through God's wrath.

There is nothing about the land of Israel or a re-Judaism there.

There are many synonyms. To have no condemnation as in 8 does use the word 'saved.' But they are obviously saved.

There is nothing about the land of Israel or Judaism there.

10:13 is how the string of questions in 14 is introduced.

The two quotes of Isaiah in 11:26 are about now in Christ: this is not a prediction about Israel in the future.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Interplanner said:
Prob the most important is 5:8 because justification and saved are related. Saved is the whole package of justification, transformation now and glorification on the final day. But you might not know this from this particular verse: it's the protective passage through God's wrath.

There is nothing about the land of Israel or a re-Judaism there.

There are many synonyms. To have no condemnation as in 8 does use the word 'saved.' But they are obviously saved.

There is nothing about the land of Israel or Judaism there.

10:13 is how the string of questions in 14 is introduced.

The two quotes of Isaiah in 11:26 are about now in Christ: this is not a prediction about Israel in the future.
Click to expand...

MAD believes as did the Jews when Christ first came, and as did Peter until he was corrected.

They want a restoration of a Kingdom under the law which failed--

Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

MAD says there is no Priesthood, and wants it that the Jews restore a stone temple and an old testament priesthood all under the law with blood sacrifices in the millennium.

MAD says the new covenant is not in force now, yet expects that the new covenant is a restoration of the old covenant flesh weaknesses.

MAD is heresy.

Reader be warned.

LA
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
The open-ended questions are still in your court: what is 'saved' in Romans?
Click to expand...

" And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​

When we look at the "covenant" spoken about in this passage we can know what "saved" means:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-33).​

Everyone out of the house of Judah and the house of Israel will know the Lord and will have their sins forgiven. Also, the Lord will remember their sins no longer.

It is evident to anyone with an open mind that the salvation being spoken of here is the salvation of the soul.
 
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