George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Junk theology
THE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL
- Thread starter DougE
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Junk theology
Right Divider
Body part
Poor confused George.
Right Divider
Body part
In what WAY does it do so?
Saying it doesn't make it so.
k0de
Active member
Romans 2: 29. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God.
You can't earn it at a university it has to be approved from heaven. [emoji91]
Right Divider
Body part
You've missed the point.
Paul is talking about believing Israelites there. That is the context of that verse.
k0de
Active member
Looking at it in that perspective I have to agree. Not going to get into it, but that verse is open for debate. But thank you by explaining and sharing your point of view.
beloved57
Well-known member
False. Paul is speaking about believing jew or gentile there.
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Hello
It is only known that the church is the body of Christ by Paul's epistles; this can not be found before Paul
Romans 2:6-8 states how God will judge but, there is none righteous that can meet this.
turbosixx
New member
I agree with your definition. I would also suggest more of Romans tells us the same.
9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,
The physical descendants are not true Israel.
9:7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
This is how ALL Israel will be saved. It's not the physical children but the children of promise that are truly Israel.
11:4 But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
In the past God has weeded out those who are not truly His and that is what He has done now. Jesus spoke/speaks for God. Those who believed His son are truly His people.
Paul tells us we have been circumcised:
Col. 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Also we are descendants of Abraham:
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
If that doesn't mean we are spiritual Israel, then why not?
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Jhn 5:23KJV, Jhn 17:23KJV, Jhn 17:21KJV, Jhn 17:3KJV, Jhn 4:23KJV,
I think that you only think that he agrees with you in your understanding of Ro 2:20.
A common misconception is that Paul is saying that believing gentiles are now Jews.
He's not saying that at all. Gentiles never become Jews except by prosetylizing under the former dispensation and gentiles are not 'the new Israel'.
Paul is only saying that a true Jew is a believing ethnic Jew and not just one who is born a Jew.
Once again a common misconception.
Paul is not saying that believing gentiles are now Israel.
He is only saying that believing Israelites are the true Israel and not just by being physical descendants.
The physical descendants were true Israel if they believed that Jesus of Nazareth was their prophesied Messiah.
Once again, Paul is not discounting the physical, but is saying that true Israel is both by physicality and with faith in Messiah.
The 'remnant' is of physical Israel... believers of physical Israel.
True, He has, but still in Ro 9,10 and 11 Paul is talking about his physical brethren, his kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Abraham is/was not Israel.
Gentile believers today are spiritual offspring of Abraham through faith, not the physical offspring.
In Galatians, Paul is giving assurance to believing gentiles that they have salvation by faith and are Abraham's offspring directly through Abraham's singular seed, against the Judaizer's insistence that these gentiles must become part of Abraham's multiplied physical seed through physical circumcision.
It doesn't mean that these believing gentiles become spiritual Jews, the new Israel or spiritual Israel. They simply become members of the Body of Christ.
There is simply no justification for changing Biblical definitions of terms such as Jew, Israel, David's throne, Zion, Gospel of the Kingdom, etc,.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Ro 11:26,27 is not talking about the Church the Body of Christ but is speaking of the salvation of the believing remnant of physical Israel at Christ's second coming to earth, according to prophecy.
turbosixx
New member
I didn’t realize that is how others were understanding it. Thanks.
To help me understand what you're saying. Do you see 4 different groups? 1) Physical Jews that don’t believe in Jesus. 2) Physical Jews that do believe in Jesus. 3) Believing Gentiles 4) Unbelieving Gentiles
It’s safe to say group 4 is lost. Where do you place the other 3? As in who is in the BOC and who is not? What is the fate of group 1?
turbosixx
New member
Based on your comment how do you see this?
1 Cor. 1:12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”
The Corinthians were converted by different men. When Paul writes to them, is he only addressing those he converted as the BOC? In what classification do you place those who were converted by the other men?
Right Divider
Body part
Prior to the dispensation where there is no distinction between Israel and the rest of the world... yes.
Group 1 is just as lost.
Group 2 will inherit the earth when they are resurrected into the kingdom of heaven.
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I think you're confusing 1 and 2...
Right Divider
Body part
Thanks for the catch... fixed.