THE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL

[turbosixx]

Hello
Could you be more specific and give me chapter and verse you wish me to consider

Yes Sir.

Acts 18:1-8. This is on Paul's second journey. I don't see how Paul converted these people any different than the 12 did in prior chapters.

 

[bibleverse2]

The new covenant is for Israel.

Amen (Jeremiah 31:31-33)

And it is because the New Covenant is made only with Israel that salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22b), and the Gospel goes to the Jews first (Romans 1:16). It is also why Jesus Christ said Matthew 15:24,26 in the context of being asked to minister to someone who was not of Israel (Matthew 15:22-26). It is also why Gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel so that they can partake of the salvation offered to Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

For the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is already fulfilled, even though the prior, Millennial prophecy of Jeremiah 31:1-14,16-25 (Jeremiah 31:15 was fulfilled in the first century AD: Matthew 2:17-18) and the other Millennial prophecies have not yet been fulfilled. For the making of the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31,33) was fulfilled at Jesus Christ's Crucifixion (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17), just as the New Covenant being made with the houses of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31,33) has been fulfilled (Acts 2:5,36-41, Romans 11:1,17,24). And the New Covenant being not according to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Jeremiah 31:32) has been fulfilled (Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17). And the New Covenant law of Jesus being written on the hearts of Jewish and Gentile Christians (Jeremiah 31:33) has been fulfilled (Romans 6:17, Ephesians 6:6, Galatians 6:2). And "they shall teach no more every man his neighbour" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:27). And "they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:13). And "I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:12).

 

[bibleverse2]

This is all prophecy not mystery

Note that the mystery of the Gospel (of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) is revealed through the prophecy (Romans 16:25-26) when the prophecy is understood properly (Luke 24:45-47, Acts 26:22-23).

That is, Christians can now understand how perfectly the Old Testament foretold the Gospel of the suffering and death of Christ for our sins, and His rising physically from the dead on the third day (Acts 26:22-23; 1 Corinthians 15:1-5, Luke 24:44-47). His suffering and death for our sins was foretold in Isaiah 53 (cf. Acts 8:32-35; 1 Peter 2:24). His crucifixion experience was foretold in Psalms 22 (cf. Matthew 27:46,35). His not remaining dead was foretold in Psalms 16:10 (cf. Acts 2:31). His rising from the dead on the third day was foretold in Hosea 6:2 (cf. 1 Corinthians 15:4, Luke 24:46, Colossians 2:12). The fact that Christ's New Covenant Gospel (Matthew 26:28) would go forth to save both Jews and Gentiles was foretold in Isaiah 49:6 and Isaiah 42:6 (cf. Acts 26:23b, Luke 24:47). For some other examples of how Jesus Christ fulfilled Old Testament scriptures at His first coming: He fulfilled Deuteronomy 18:15,18-19 (cf. Acts 3:22-24, Luke 24:44), and Zechariah 9:9 (cf. Matthew 21:4-5), and Psalms 118:22 (cf. Acts 4:11), and Isaiah 9:1-2 (cf. Matthew 4:12-16), and Psalms 110:4 (cf. Hebrews 6:20).

The church was in existence before Paul, but not the body of Christ

Note that they are the same thing (Colossians 1:18).

 

[beloved57]

douge

The mystery of the gospel was revealed only to Paul.

False It was revealed also Eph 3:4-6

[FONT=&quot]4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

See Apostles Plural ? Prophets Plural[/FONT]

 

[beloved57]

douge

The new covenant is for Israel.

Yes, the Church of Christ which includes Gentiles The Israel of God Gal 6. It hasn't nothing to do with the physical nation israel those born merly of the flesh, theyre not the children of God Rom 9:8

8 [FONT=&quot]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.[/FONT]

 

[Nanja]

douge



Yes, the Church of Christ which includes Gentiles The Israel of God Gal 6. It hasn't nothing to do with the physical nation israel those born merly of the flesh, theyre not the children of God Rom 9:8

8 [FONT="]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.[/FONT]

Amen Brother !

 

[DougE]

Yes Sir.

Acts 18:1-8. This is on Paul's second journey. I don't see how Paul converted these people any different than the 12 did in prior chapters.

Hello
I wish I knew everything but here are some thoughts.
Paul preached Christ just like the twelve.
Paul believed and preached Jesus as Christ and the Son of God from the scriptures of Moses and the prophets.
Paul went to the Jew first.
Paul was not opposed to the twelve...they were preaching the kingdom on earth to Israel.
Paul did not give offence to the Jews he also offered sacrifice and circumcised Timothy.
Paul did not teach Jews to not follow the commandments which included baptism.
Israel was still being offered the kingdom which required faith in Jesus as Messiah, Son of God and King and confession and baptism for remission of sins to be priests in the kingdom.
Acts is a transitional book.
Not everything was revealed to Paul all at once.

 

[DougE]

douge



False It was revealed also Eph 3:4-6

[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]4 [/B][/FONT]Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

See Apostles Plural ? Prophets Plural[/FONT]

Hello
Yes you are right it was revealed to apostles and prophets.
The apostles and prophets to whom it was revealed were in the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:28). What I meant by what I said was it was not revealed in scripture or to others before Paul. It is not found that to anyone else but Paul, was the mystery revealed by Christ (Ephesians 3:3). The apostles and prophets in the church had the mystery revealed by the Spirit.

 

[beloved57]

Hello
Yes you are right it was revealed to apostles and prophets.
The apostles and prophets to whom it was revealed were in the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:28). What I meant by what I said was it was not revealed in scripture or to others before Paul. It is not found that to anyone else but Paul, was the mystery revealed by Christ (Ephesians 3:3). The apostles and prophets in the church had the mystery revealed by the Spirit.

Revealed by the Spirit or by Christ its the Same. Christ operates by His Spirit. And Paul and Peter preached the same Gospel, the One revealed by Christ or by His Spirit.

 

[beloved57]

doug

What I meant by what I said was it was not revealed in scripture or to others before Paul.

Even the Prophhets in the OT had some knowledge of the Mystery, not as much as in the NT Times, but God did reveal it. Isa 11:10

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Acts 15:14-18

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

The Prophets here are OT Saints !

 

[turbosixx]

Hello
I wish I knew everything but here are some thoughts.
Paul preached Christ just like the twelve.
Paul believed and preached Jesus as Christ and the Son of God from the scriptures of Moses and the prophets.
Paul went to the Jew first.
Paul was not opposed to the twelve...they were preaching the kingdom on earth to Israel.
Paul did not give offence to the Jews he also offered sacrifice and circumcised Timothy.
Paul did not teach Jews to not follow the commandments which included baptism.
Israel was still being offered the kingdom which required faith in Jesus as Messiah, Son of God and King and confession and baptism for remission of sins to be priests in the kingdom.
Acts is a transitional book.
Not everything was revealed to Paul all at once.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I agree Acts is transitional. It is the beginning of the church and it's growth. There are a couple of things I see that I would like to discuss. Instead of doing both and making it more complicated, I would like to start with one for now.

You said the 12 were preaching the kingdom on earth and still offering it to Israel. Could you please point to passages where they are preaching that the kingdom is an earthly one.

 

[DougE]

Revealed by the Spirit or by Christ its the Same. Christ operates by His Spirit. And Paul and Peter preached the same Gospel, the One revealed by Christ or by His Spirit.

Hello
If Peter and Paul preach the same gospel then according to Peter in Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 if somebody repents and is baptized in the name of Jesus and believes that this alone saves they are lost.
This is not the gospel found in Paul's epistles.

 

[beloved57]

Hello
If Peter and Paul preach the same gospel then according to Peter in Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 if somebody repents and is baptized in the name of Jesus and believes that this alone saves they are lost.
This is not the gospel found in Paul's epistles.

Peter and Paul preachedI the same Gospel.

 

[DougE]

Peter and Paul preachedI the same Gospel.

Hello
Please show me the gospels from each.

 

[beloved57]

Hello
Please show me the gospels from each.

Im not wasting my time with you. You study and research for yourself.

 

[DougE]

Thanks for your thoughts.

I agree Acts is transitional. It is the beginning of the church and it's growth. There are a couple of things I see that I would like to discuss. Instead of doing both and making it more complicated, I would like to start with one for now.

You said the 12 were preaching the kingdom on earth and still offering it to Israel. Could you please point to passages where they are preaching that the kingdom is an earthly one.

Hello
Here are some verses Deuteronomy 30:5 Revelation 5:10 Daniel 7:18 Micah 4:2 Matthew 4:17 Jeremiah 23:5 Matthew 19:28 Luke 1:32 Luke 19:11 Matthew 24:14

 

[JudgeRightly]

Im not wasting my time with you. You study and research for yourself.

Then you shouldn't continue posting in his thread.

 

[Idolater]

Note that the mystery of the Gospel (of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) is revealed through the prophecy (Romans 16:25-26) when the prophecy is understood properly (Luke 24:45-47, Acts 26:22-23).

That is, Christians can now understand how perfectly the Old Testament foretold the Gospel of the suffering and death of Christ for our sins, and His rising physically from the dead on the third day (Acts 26:22-23; 1 Corinthians 15:1-5, Luke 24:44-47). His suffering and death for our sins was foretold in Isaiah 53 (cf. Acts 8:32-35; 1 Peter 2:24). His crucifixion experience was foretold in Psalms 22 (cf. Matthew 27:46,35). His not remaining dead was foretold in Psalms 16:10 (cf. Acts 2:31). His rising from the dead on the third day was foretold in Hosea 6:2 (cf. 1 Corinthians 15:4, Luke 24:46, Colossians 2:12). The fact that Christ's New Covenant Gospel (Matthew 26:28) would go forth to save both Jews and Gentiles was foretold in Isaiah 49:6 and Isaiah 42:6 (cf. Acts 26:23b, Luke 24:47). For some other examples of how Jesus Christ fulfilled Old Testament scriptures at His first coming: He fulfilled Deuteronomy 18:15,18-19 (cf. Acts 3:22-24, Luke 24:44), and Zechariah 9:9 (cf. Matthew 21:4-5), and Psalms 118:22 (cf. Acts 4:11), and Isaiah 9:1-2 (cf. Matthew 4:12-16), and Psalms 110:4 (cf. Hebrews 6:20).



Note that they are the same thing (Colossians 1:18).

That's all correct.

 

[Idolater]

That's utter nonsense as Paul did not "theorize" anything.

That's correct. Paul was an Apostle. Everything Paul wrote and taught verbally are the Word of God, just as with the other Apostles. The Apostles are our source of the Word of Christ, since He only wrote one brief letter Himself, that was private and personal in nature, and not concerning faith and morals, except only peripherally. Imagine our faith in Christ, if the Apostles were only "theorizing!" What a mess!

 

[Idolater]

No, basically the theology of Christianity can be said to be theorized by Paul, as Paul's letters are the fundamental part of the theology.

The 4 gospels are accounts of testimonies of Jesus' deeds and speeches. Because it's all about how Jesus is eye-witnessed, it's not the place here to theorize anything. They are just plainly recordings of what is said and witnessed. John's gospel is a bit different and thus involves more theology contents.

The same can be said to Acts. Acts is more of the recordings of the apostles' deeds.

The theology itself starts with Paul's epistles. Romans contains a lot of in-depth theology contents about what the New Covenant is as a covenant. So are other epistles of Paul.

To put it another way, no apostles other than Paul can come up with what have been said in books such as Romans or Hebrews (if you accept that it's from Paul).

If you failed to speculate this, it's you who are plainly silly.

That might make sense outside the fold of the Catholic Church, but inside the fold, we just heed our bishops, who preserve and relay to us what the Apostles taught in all matters of faith and morals.