Daniel1769
New member
Way to dodge the question. You said Romans 13 commands us to pay taxes. Then just answer simply, yes or no, is a 99% tax justified by Romans 13? If not, what is the highest percentage that Romans 13 covers?
Taxation Is Theft
- Thread starter Daniel1769
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Way to dodge the question. You said Romans 13 commands us to pay taxes. Then just answer simply, yes or no, is a 99% tax justified by Romans 13? If not, what is the highest percentage that Romans 13 covers?
Because it says that, even though you dont like it.
Romans 13:1-7 13 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.........6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
Answer is neither yes or no, no amount is named there.
It doesn't contain an amount, now does it. Im not an idiot, im not answering something that isnt stated to begin with.
Zeke
Well-known member
Yea the GOD OF THIS WORLD I agree, but, that has nothing to do with the kingdom of God within you, that's the elephant in the double minded Christian room, Christ/Spirit told you his kingdom is not of this world that is elemental slavery imprisoned in flesh and blood, You have two Masters instead of Liberty to make the righteous choice of a Child of the living God, you are ruled by paper and the birth certificate which you think is you proves it.
Wiping the dust.
Zeke
Well-known member
Fictional dust at that,a dead persona/after birth sleep walking through Babylon like she is spiritually awake while loyal to this worlds govern mentalist.
Daniel1769
New member
So...what is your point. You say the Bible says to pay taxes, now you've put limits on it, stating that a certain amount maybe be beyond what Romans 13 prescribes, yet you won't name that amount. How do you know there is a limit? Why not 99.99%? If there's a certain percentage that is too high to be justified under Romans 13, how are you determining this? And how do you know it isn't .01%?
You're saying that Romans is just a blanket statement to pay your taxes, but then won't say that I'm obligated to pay a 99% tax under the commandment that you say it explicitly there. I don't know where you stand on this. Does Romans 13 say we have to pay whatever tax the state declares, or are there limits? Who is determining the limits if there are none listed? There are so many questions about your position on this and you aren't willing to answer them.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Daniel1769
New member
So if the government passes 100% tax, you're going to pay because God ordained it, in your mind. Good to know. My money doesn't belong to Caesar. I just pay his extortion so he doesn't send men with guns to lock me in a cage (like Jesus wants them to do to us, right?)
What if your town got together and threw a weenie-roast, fund raiser in an effort to raise money for repairing the pot-holes you currently drive your car around....or perhaps building a local rep center, park....etc?
Any problems with that?
Daniel1769
New member
That would be voluntary funding. That is how things should be funded. There are towns where citizens are fixing pot hole because the government isn't, even though those taxes allegedly pay for roads. Charities raise billions of dollars every year, so voluntary funding is very possible. Most government supporters don't want voluntaryism because they know people aren't going to pitch in to pay politicians six figures and to give their friends big contracts and for all of the other waste. If you want to get rid of waste, make funding voluntary. If it's not funded voluntarily, it's funded by theft and extortion.
There is a proper role for government. It does and should provide services that are of value to its citizens (e.g. protection from hostile enemy states, protection from criminals and providing for a free and fair exchange of goods and services between citizens (i.e. enforcement of both criminal and civil law) and the building and maintenance of infrastructure pertinent to the provision of such governmental services (i.e. currency, roads, bridges, information networks, power grids, etc). It is, therefore, proper that the citizens finance the provision of those services since they derive the primary benefit from them. Therefore, the concept of taxes, in and of itself, is not theft. It is, in fact, the way a society is financed.
HOWEVER! Robin Hood was/is a thief! It is not a proper role of government to be Robin Hood, taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor, the end result of which is that everyone ends up poor. It is government welfare that is theft. In fact, most of what modern governments do with the taxes they collect is indeed theft. Welfare, national parks, most of what the EPA, IRS, FEMA, et al. does is theft and the Dept. of Education and other such governmental agencies should not even exist at all - and so on and so forth.
The principle is quite simple. No one has a right to any good or service that is produced by someone else. Goods and services are the property of those who produce them and it is their right to use or dispose of that property in any manner they see fit that does not infringe on the rights of others. This is because the only way to produce such property is through the expense of one's own time and energy which is the expenditure of one's life. Private property rights are, therefore, an extension of the right to life and unjust taxation is not merely theft, it is slavery.
Resting in Him,
Clete
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Daniel1769
New member
Except for government, right? They have a right to take what they want.
Daniel1769
New member
That wasn't me. My old name was Daniel1611 but I can't remember the password and had trouble resetting it so I changed it to Daniel1769, leaving the name as similar as possible.
Did you read the whole post?
It is civil society that makes the protection of your rights possible. That protection costs money. That money has to come from somewhere.
In short, your argument against any and all taxes is an argument against civil society and in favor of anarchy.
Daniel1769
New member
Taxes do not pay for "protecting your rights."
If you want to watch Clete start drooling, just mention his heartthrob Ayn Rand. While there are differences between Rand's Objectivist movement and Murray Rothbard's Libertarian movement, there are many many similarities (you and Clete are proverbial brothers from another mother).
Since Rothbard's expiration date came up a few years ago, the new "Mr. Libertarian" is atheist Walter Block (you remember me talking about him in another one of your anarchist threads, he justified a father selling his 4 year old son ("who is not an adult") to a member of the North American Man Boy Love Association for food to keep them from starving).
Walter Block wrote a book on privatizing roads and highways, I assume he has ideas on how to privatize other much needs things like police and fire services.
Care to share Block's view on those subjects Dan, or are you just another Libertarian who complains but doesn't have viable solutions to the things you complain about?
Saying it doesn't make it so.
Of course they do pay for it. What do you think they pay the police force and judges with, banana cream pie?
The only reason people are willing to do the job of policing or firefighting or presiding over a court or whatever other proper roles of government people fulfill is because they can get paid for doing it. And they should get paid for the expenditure of their time and effort (i.e. their life) just as anyone else should. Who's going to pay it if there are no taxes, Santa Claus?
I agree with you that the amount and form of taxes we pay in this country is ridiculous and does indeed amount to governmental stealing but it's a bridge too far to go from that premise to declare all taxation to be theft.
Notice that you've not made a single argument to support your claim. The closest you've come to doing so is to quote a principle out of one of my posts. Do you have anything at all to support your contention, or are you just bloviating? Make an argument or learn something and change your position.
Resting in Him,
Clete