Swine Sausage - Sin?

[rstrats]

Correct. Nowhere does scripture ever refer to unclean animals as food.

 

[patrick jane]

The bottom line, without pages of posts, Lon showed exactly what I said. Everything is ok to eat.

Thanks Lon for your post -

 

[achduke]

The bottom line, without pages of posts, Lon showed exactly what I said. Everything is ok to eat.

Thanks Lon for your post -

This is only true if the scriptures posted are taken out of context.

 

[Wick Stick]

I'm surprised to discover that there are people who use the Bible to say that certain foods, such as pork, are unclean and sinful. Various verses seem to clearly indicate we can't defile ourselves by the type of food we eat.

Ex...Mark 7:18-19King James Version (KJV)
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

I was using Acts 10, Peters vision, to show that there is no unclean foods. The counter argument is that the food in Acts 10 in only to be taken metaphorically.

What say you.... is it a sin to eat oysters, pork, *blood sausage, head cheese etc?

Sound like you're making too much out of the legality of "sin."

Use the spiritual law and some common sense instead. Is eating pork sausage a mistake? For me it usually is, since it gives me some indigestion and heartburn. It's probably not great for your heart or your waistline, either.

But try not to make it a salvation issue, eh? Sausage McMuffins don't send you to hell - they send you to the water closet.

Jarrod

 

[chrysostom]

Sound like you're making too much out of the legality of "sin."

Use the spiritual law and some common sense instead. Is eating pork sausage a mistake? For me it usually is, since it gives me some indigestion and heartburn. It's probably not great for your heart or your waistline, either.

But try not to make it a salvation issue, eh? Sausage McMuffins don't send you to hell - they send you to the water closet.

Jarrod

you have to eat the pig
why else would we have it?

 

[JonahofAkron]

Mar 7:14 And he called the people to him again and said to them, "Hear me, all of you, and understand:
Mar 7:15There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him."
Mar 7:17 And when he had entered the house and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable.
Mar 7:18 And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him,
Mar 7:19since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

You ignored the obvious context: Jewish tradition of handwashing before a decidedly Jewish meal. If you take out of it something that was not put into the discussion, you're in the wrong. Sorry, man. It's about non-washed hands making your foods unclean-a non-Torah based tradition that obviously needed the Messiah (the one that lives out Torah perfectly) to clarify.

Act 10:10 And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance
Act 10:11 and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth.
Act 10:12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him: "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."
Act 10:14 But Peter said, "By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."
Act 10:15 And the voice came to him again a second time, "What God has made clean, do not call common."


1Co 10:25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience.
1Co 10:26 For "the earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof."
1Co 10:27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience.

This has been answered by several people, but, for some unknown reason, we keep hearing about it. Acts is clear that Peter believes that the vision is in regard to PEOPLE-the mention of food after this vision is typify the relationship of Jews and Gentiles...not their different cuisines.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,
1Ti 4:3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
1Ti 4:5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.
1Ti 4:6 If you put these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed.
1Ti 4:7 Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness;

This verse is either standing in condemnation of the Torah (something Paul clearly says that he would never do and certainly not by calling the Torah, something he held in high regard, "irreverent, silly myths") or it stands in favor of not adding to the Torah (something that no Jew was supposed to do; especially since in 2 Timothy 3:15 he defines what gives us "good doctrine").

How you can twist it to fit your preconceived notions is quite impressive, but quite wrong.

 

[JonahofAkron]

The bottom line, without pages of posts, Lon showed exactly what I said. Everything is ok to eat.

Thanks Lon for your post -

Nope.

Lon is usually very well spoken and has excellent ideas, but I very much disagree with what he's said here.

 

[JonahofAkron]

This is only true if the scriptures posted are taken out of context.

And others ignored. Why don't we talk about Romans 3:31? It clarifies so much of this argument.

 

[JonahofAkron]

you have to eat the pig
why else would we have it?

Garbage disposal. It isn't necessary for every animal to have a purpose for humans in order to be useful and created with purpose.

 

[Wick Stick]

you have to eat the pig
why else would we have it?

I guess you never saw the Flintstones...

 

[chrysostom]

Garbage disposal. It isn't necessary for every animal to have a purpose for humans in order to be useful and created with purpose.

we have a lot of garbage
and
not enough pigs
so
how many pigs can you handle?

 

[jamie]

you have to eat the pig
why else would we have it?

We have rabid rats but that doesn't mean we should eat them.

 

[achduke]

And others ignored. Why don't we talk about Romans 3:31? It clarifies so much of this argument.

Or this.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Deuteronomy 14:8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

Isaiah 66:16-17
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

 

[patrick jane]

pork and lobster - mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[JonahofAkron]

we have a lot of garbage
and
not enough pigs
so
how many pigs can you handle?

I don't get it. What does that mean?

 

[chrysostom]

I don't get it. What does that mean?

how are you going to get rid of the pigs
that
get rid of your garbage

 

[Wick Stick]

I don't get it. What does that mean?

That you might have solved the problem of landfills.

 

[Lon]

Your interpretation of the passage makes the scripture of no effect, null and void, because you know full well that no one here needs to worry about eating "meat" that has been sacrificed to an idol: yet if that is indeed the only thing that the statement is supposed to mean then you, by your interpretation, have effectually nullified the meaning of the statement. In addition Paul clearly tells you to walk according to the Spirit because if you walk according to the flesh you will die. Are you walking according to the Spirit in your interpretation of this passage or according to the flesh and what you like to put into your belly of the flesh? Do you even know what the Spirit is in this sense? It is the Testimony of Yeshua whose words are SPIRIT and LIFE and his apostles and disciples speak and write in the SAME WAY. As for your accusation of "waaaaay over-spiritualizing and wrong" it is you who does not believe the Testimony of the Son of God as you consistently show by your own commentary:

Revelation 2:20-23 ASV
20. But I have this against thee, that thou sufferest the woman Jezebel, who calleth herself a prophetess; and she teacheth and seduceth my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed to idols [eidolothuton].
21. And I gave her time that she should repent; and she willeth not to repent of her fornication.
22. Behold, I cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of her works.
23. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he that searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto each one of you according to your works.

Perhaps it is you who needs to stop eating books sacrificed to the idols of the authors and start studying and the Word for yourself. This is supernal in meaning and even the same word from Acts 15:29, eidolothuton, is used in this passage, and speaks of the same things. Unless of course you think Jezebel was some other prophetess still living at the time this was written? You do know that this woman Jezebel is written about many years before, correct? You might want to take a look beginning at 1 Kings 16:31 and continue reading on from there so as to get some background information before you make anymore wild judgments based on your belly of the flesh. As it stands now you only reveal that you do not believe the Testimony of the Son of God written in the passage above.

I can read Greek with a need to use a parsing guide. I'm not a poor student, thus. Revelation isn't what we were reading and it has not a lot to do with this topic other than what meat was sacrificed to idols, so your long cloak and dagger distraction isn't really doing the distracting part. We were talking about gentiles as well as your Judaizing them. Read some of the verses I gave to the next person who asked about scriptures that spell this all out. Instead of 'lording' it over you, I gave you the tools to study to shew yourself an approved workman of God. You are a judaizer and one who would lord it over others instead of educating them. Why? Because you don't have an educated leg to stand on and so thrusting your authority is all you've got left. I'm interested in the scriptures and giving others the tools they need to discern God's Words for themselves with a confidence that only comes from reading it. I'm not into your distraction attempts. It isn't the way I do theology. I've no desire to lord it over people. Read the scriptures given, or don't. Your choice. It has nothing to do with my 'stomach' but how I live in a "Christian, gentile" home.

 

[Ben Masada]

Paul said that the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

We should have the mind of Christ (Philippians 2:5).

The mind of Christ is obedience to God. Paul taught from the Hebrew Bible where God defined what is food and what is not food. Paul never taught anyone to disobey God.

Very good Jamie! I agree with you that the mind of "Christ" is obedience to God. But then, when you say that Paul never taught anyone to disobey God, what do you think of Rom. 10:4 when he said that Jesus was the end of the Law? To teach the end of the Law is no different from teaching to disobey God. Are you contradicting yourself then?

 

[Lon]

Acts 10 is talking about believing gentiles. Food was used as an example but it was talking about gentiles. Just read the interpretation which is already given in Act 11:18.

Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

1 Corinthians 10:25-27 is talking about eating food that was sacrificed to idols.

1 Corinthians 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

1 Timothy 4:1-7 Is talking about Food the origin is broma.

Strongs Greek 1033. broma bro'-mah from the base of 977; food (literally or figuratively), especially (ceremonially) articles allowed or forbidden by the Jewish law:--meat, victuals.


What is food to a Jew at this time? It was not swine, blood or shellfish. 1 Timothy 4:1-7 is already happening in modern times. Just look at the radical Vegan and Peta movement. Not that there is anything wrong with being Vegan but when you push it onto someone radically then there is a problem.

Be sure to distinguish passages. Some were given to gentiles, some a mixed audience of Jew and gentile converts, and some to only Jews. They have a 'culture' given by God, that requires them to observe specific rituals. Gentiles do not and it is wrong to Judaize a gentile and really impossible today anyway: there aren't many Jewish Christians that we'd join like they were doing in those days, confusing spiritual conversion with national identity.