ECT Studying how the NT uses the OT

john w

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Interplanner said:
We should be glorying in Christ, not in Israel. Why do you "need" things to happen in Israel? Are the accounts of Christ too mere, too small, too humble?
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False dichotomy.

Vs.

Isaiah 17:3The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the Lord of hosts.


Isaiah 45:25 KJV In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.


Isaiah 46:13 KJV I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.


Romans 9:4 KJV Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

_______________________

"....Israel my glory."
_______________________
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Election is actually resolved in Christ. Christ was chosen before the foundation of the world. Jn 6. "It was the Father's will that all who believe on me will have eternal life." Paul did not mean us individually and directly. Everything, like justification or the "Abrahamic" promises, run through and in Christ.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Totton Linnet said:
Quite so, I allus agree with Paul.

Pentecostals may not understand how it works according to 2nd Ephesians...we are an unashamedly simple people, but they do understand this, whatever promises are in the bible in any age gone by are for them today.

This why they believe in healing, miracles, God an ever present help in time of need....prosperity.

God's dispensations change, but God is the same in every dispensation.

Something many a wisebeard like yourself have yet to discover.
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Just as I said...
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Totton Linnet said:
Mid Acts Dispensation

The doctrine that Paul received a different gospel from that which the Jewish church had received and which superceded the Jewish gospel of Peter, James and John.
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You got that right! Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV, Galatians 1:11-12 KJV
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
The thing the Jewish church had received was Judaistic. Notice how many times the criticism of Paul is not that it's not "him" but that it's not the Spirit, but human effort instead. It was Judaism that voided and replaced the Promised Gospel with the Law.

How do we know it was not the Spirit? The Spirit produces the unified and transcultural church. The original meaning of the Greek 'hairase' (<heresy) is divisions (see Gal 4:8-20). And the Jewish church featured its culture over the Gospel.

But it was not another Gospel from God. To say that would be to completely miss what happened, or to gloss over human evil in the 1st generation. No wonder Paul called them impostors, angels of light masquerading as servants of righteousness (read: justification), 2 Cor 11. His ministry area had a neo-Judaism going on, complete with accounts of people speaking first hand to the angels who ministered the Law, last seen at Sinai (background of Col).
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

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Silver Subscriber
heir said:
No, it's your religious, denominational, fundie wannabe error, but I'm sure you'll carry on with your ignorance, nonetheless.
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Again I ask to what are you brought nigh? and of what are you made a fellow citizen and of what are you a an inheritor of?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Heir,
re 184.
Forgiveness doesn't mean you wont' sin again.
Prob the reason he said something about the reduction of sin was because of the Spirit at work in people, not the old way.
Prob the reason he said that about teachers is that it's essential message is so clear, direct, etc.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Totton Linnet said:
Again I ask to what are you brought nigh?
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unto God!

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

as in:

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

and of what are you made a fellow citizen and of what are you a an inheritor of?
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Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

I am an heir of God, and joint-heir with Christ (Romans 8:17 KJV), fellowheir (as the Ephesians who also trusted Ephesians 1:13 KJV) and of the same Body with those who first trusted in Christ (beginning with Paul Ephesians 1:12 KJV, 1 Timothy 1:16 KJV) and partaker of God's promise in Christ by the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), not covenant (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV). My inheritance is heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6 KJV).

You really do need to grow up in Him in all things (Ephesians 4:15 KJV) and approve things that are excellent (Philippians 1:9-10 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Interplanner said:
Heir,
re 184.
Forgiveness doesn't mean you wont' sin again.
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You claim to be under the NC, so...

Has God caused you to walk in His statutes?

Do we have teachers or an an unction?

Do you sin?

Also, please learn to wrap quotes. It'll help with the discussion.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Heir,
re 184.
Forgiveness doesn't mean you wont' sin again.
Prob the reason he said something about the reduction of sin was because of the Spirit at work in people, not the old way.
Prob the reason he said that about teachers is that it's essential message is so clear, direct, etc.
Click to expand...


The sense of the new covenant about sin is about sin as debt. In the NC, Christ's righteousness is credited (as in accounting). there is no sin in that sense. 2 Cor 5:19.

This is very inspiring and does improve a person's moral performance as well. That is the second power of sin--the stain. It is not the same as the debt.

The bane of religion like OC Judaism is there are all these teachers out there with their gimmick about how to get human nature to improve morally. They are common today as well. Relative to that, no, we don't need teachers. The Spirit works directly through the Gospel, as in Gal 3:1-3, where the mistake is to go on in the faith in human effort.

I understand your interest in a more coherent discussion, so I hope you will show that you are reading NT passages about the NC. It does not show, so far.
 
D

Danoh

New member
Interplanner said:
The sense of the new covenant about sin is about sin as debt. In the NC, Christ's righteousness is credited (as in accounting). there is no sin in that sense. 2 Cor 5:19.

This is very inspiring and does improve a person's moral performance as well. That is the second power of sin--the stain. It is not the same as the debt.

The bane of religion like OC Judaism is there are all these teachers out there with their gimmick about how to get human nature to improve morally. They are common today as well. Relative to that, no, we don't need teachers. The Spirit works directly through the Gospel, as in Gal 3:1-3, where the mistake is to go on in the faith in human effort.

I understand your interest in a more coherent discussion, so I hope you will show that you are reading NT passages about the NC. It does not show, so far.
Click to expand...

Lol; you're a Pauline Grace Believer and don't even know it...
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

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Silver Subscriber
That at that time ye were without Christ being alien from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise having no hope and without God in the world.

You say you are still a stranger from the covenants of promise...an alien still to the commonwealth of Israel...and so you show in all your posts for you say the promises are not for us but for the Jews.

Instead of reading the scriptures you allow somebody to spoonfeed you false doctrine.
 
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